IFR Simulators for Home

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HarvardTiger

Filing Flight Plan
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Jim
All,

Does anyone have suggestions for simulators or online simulations for use on a home computer to learn IR principles?

Though it would be nice to be able to fly complete IR flights on the simulator, I am particularly interested in something where I can experience and learn the various approaches (ADF, VOR, WAAS, ILS, etc., etc.) and get comfortable with the ideas and uses of the nav instruments.

I know nothing about Microsoft's simulator (I'm not a game-player); is it appropriate? How about one I found online called X-Plane? Also, like I said, something that could be used online would be fine, too.

Thanks,

Jim
 
I'm a big fan of Microsoft Flight Sim. I have both 2004 and FS X...Ten is cool and all, but unless you have Deep Blue in your living room, you're going to have to turn the details and graphics WAYYY down for it to run at all, where as 2004 can run with pretty good weather effects on most computers without slowing down. And thanks to websites like simviation.com, you can download airports and airplanes to "expand the sim experience." I used Microsoft Flight Sim a lot during my instrument training...it's not perfect, but it's nice to practice holds and approaches with wind, to help practice wind correction, and it lets you fly full procedures without worrying about getting lost or having to spend tons of time flying to the IAF...just start the sim a few miles out and you'll have time to tune and ident everything while tracking inbound...it's good stuff, in my opinion.
 
ASA's "On Top" is good, too.


Wells
 
Any of the three that have been mentioned would be good for IFR. Be sure you have a yoke and pedals; they really help significantly. Have a look at VATSIM.NET, too. You actually interact with "real" ATC. Jason will hopefully chime in with more about that. I don't think you'll find anything appropriate that is entirely online; there just isn't enough bandwidth. Both X-Plane and MSFS-X are multiple DVDs.
 
There are many good sims mentioned above, but I would strongly caution you against trying to teach yourself IFR techniques and procedures. It would be much better to get an instrument instructor to teach you these things and then practice good procedures than to try teaching yourself and then having to have the II unteach you the bad things before teaching you the good ones. Also, your instructor may have a favorite sim, and using that one might improve training efficiency.
 
There is a very good free simulator available at www.flightgear.org which runs on Windows and other operating systems. The 172 variants available are very good.

For my IFR practice I purchased MSX because of the AI communcations with Approach, tower, ground, etc. I have not had any problems running it full or low graphcs but for IR I turned down the eye candy anyways.

You definitely, IMHO, need the pedals and Yoke.
 
HarvardTiger said:
All,

Does anyone have suggestions for simulators or online simulations for use on a home computer to learn IR principles?
Click to expand...
I never did find a simulator for home use or even some of the ones in the FBOs that came close to helping me learn instrument flight like the real thing. Once I got proficient and got my rating I have found some of the sims to be useful. But half the battle is learning cockpit management while learning to disregard the seat in the pant feelings you get while in motion. I would recommend that you forgo simulators for learning instrument flight until a later date.

I would recommend that you get a copy of Comm1's Clearance on Delivery and their IFR CD and practice radio work at home. That will help you once you get in the cockpit and start flying approaches.
 
PC flight sims are for practice once you know what you're doing - then they're terrific. But they are generally not good for learning unless you're sitting there with a CFII who is experienced in using them to teach.
 
Thanks to all

Many thanks, guys, to all who contributed (so far!).

Lots of good ideas and considerations.

My interest in simulators is to have something to practice with when I start IR training--my intent was not to try to circumvent the role of the flight instructor or to risk inculcating bad habits. Rather, I am hoping to find something realistic enough to give me practice flying the different approaches as I learn them to make practical use of the theory and to help me understand and engrain the three-dimensional aspect of it all while looking only at instruments for information.

I appreciate, too, the suggestions about ATC communications tools. I can see where that--anything like that--can really help smooth the process and reduce the workload while increasing confidence.

Again, thank you all.

- Jim
 
BruceAir said:
At the risk of self-promotion, I've collected lots of information on this topic; see:

Flight Simulator in Aviation Training

Microsoft Flight Simulator

Microsoft Flight Simulator as a Training Aid

And another new book, also published by ASA:

Teaching Confidence in the Clouds
Click to expand...

Bruce,

I'm glad to see you on this forum. I had your Microsoft Flight Simulator as a Training Aid book on my Christmas list, but the family thought I needed new socks instead. I argue that holes in the toes are for ventilation.

I have a question for you (and anyone else who cares to chime in) regarding yoke controllers. I'd like to use Microsoft Flight Simulator for single-engine IFR practice, and I want to choose the most suitable consumer-grade yoke for the task. I haven't been able to find a "by pilots, for pilots" comparison of the CH yoke and the new Saitek unit. Any opinions?

Thanks,

Matthew
 
I've flown with both. Both are very good units. The saitek is a little bit better in my opinion because you get it with a single three-lever unit, and you can put that unit in a more realistic position. The Saitek also has the hat switch on the left horn of the yoke, so it's available when you are flying with the left hand and using the right for the levers.

I currently own a CH yoke and quadrant, but after flying with the Saitek I will probably buy the Saitek this spring.

You might find some CH units on Ebay from others who are making the change, and that would be a good inexpensive solution. The CH is a fine unit - I've had mine for 5+ years and an occasional cleaning and silicone lube is all it's ever needed.

The CH pedals are still the best, in my opinion, for that class of product.
 
foka4 said:
I haven't been able to find a "by pilots, for pilots" comparison of the CH yoke and the new Saitek unit. Any opinions?
Click to expand...

Matt,

I haven't used the Saitek. The CH is nice, and does have single-engine throttle controls on top. I bought the throttle quadrant anyway, 'cuz having a handful of throttles is just cool. :D

If you do go for the CH, esscoaircraft.com has 'em way cheaper than anyone else last I checked. :yes:
 
I spend some time with MS Flight sim or ASA on top before my brush up flights with the instructor. I find the it is very helpful with my scan and partial panel work. I'm much better in the plane the next day.

Flight sim X is great for IFR work even on a slightly less than new PC. Just turn down all the graphics options.. you don't neem them while flying IFR! Also, there is a great garmin GPS simulator that works very well for learning the real thing!

I would agree with others that you shouldn't teach yourself this. Spend at least a little time with an instructor learning how it is supposed to be done then practice. I'd be worried about starting bad habits, and IFR flying is all about habits!
 
I have a CH FSY211U Flight Sim yoke I'll sell you. It's been used once. Make me a reasonable offer and it's yours.
 
foka4 said:
Bruce,

I'd like to use Microsoft Flight Simulator for single-engine IFR practice, and I want to choose the most suitable consumer-grade yoke for the task. I haven't been able to find a "by pilots, for pilots" comparison of the CH yoke and the new Saitek unit. Any opinions?

Thanks,

Matthew
Click to expand...

I have posted reviews (or links to to reviews) of both the CH and Saitek yokes on my Web site:

http://www.bruceair.com/product_reviews/product_reviews.htm
 
Bruce, thanks for the tip on your reviews. Thanks - that's the first pilot-centric review I've seen. I bought the Saitek unit, and I'm pleased with it, considering the sub 5-digit cost.

But now I have a new problem: I can't fly MS Flight Sim worth a crap using my new yoke and CH pedals (with the control realism set to the more realistic side of the spectrum). Are sims and consumer-grade controls just that flaky, or am I missing something? It just seems like the damping rates and control gains are way off. On some flights, the yoke will be centered nicely, and on others, it seems like I have to hold 25-50% deflection one way or the other to keep the wings level. I can get the ball dancing from one stop to the other with some well-timed, but barely perceptible rudder movements.

Fettling with the settings hasn't netted better feel, in my opinion. Maybe I'm just too dumb.

Somehow it seems that if I have to relearn how to control an airplane to keep the clean side up, the sim won't have much real-world value. (I know, Bruce, I need to read your books.)
 
foka4 said:
Bruce, thanks for the tip on your reviews. Thanks - that's the first pilot-centric review I've seen. I bought the Saitek unit, and I'm pleased with it, considering the sub 5-digit cost.

But now I have a new problem: I can't fly MS Flight Sim worth a crap using my new yoke and CH pedals (with the control realism set to the more realistic side of the spectrum). Are sims and consumer-grade controls just that flaky, or am I missing something? It just seems like the damping rates and control gains are way off. On some flights, the yoke will be centered nicely, and on others, it seems like I have to hold 25-50% deflection one way or the other to keep the wings level. I can get the ball dancing from one stop to the other with some well-timed, but barely perceptible rudder movements.

Fettling with the settings hasn't netted better feel, in my opinion. Maybe I'm just too dumb.

Somehow it seems that if I have to relearn how to control an airplane to keep the clean side up, the sim won't have much real-world value. (I know, Bruce, I need to read your books.)
Click to expand...

In MS I found I had to have the realism settings down quite a bit for it to really seem "real", WAY to touchy otherwise.
Also, are you using real time weather when flying? It seems to me it over compensates for wind when using real time weather.

Mark B
 
I saw this thread, and all I could picture in my mind was the ATC-510 I used during my IR training (this was all but 3 years ago :D ) You get "real" gauges, yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudders.

http://tinyurl.com/2msv4c

Not a bad deal if you don't mind 1970's analog tech.

Pete
 
gprellwitz said:
Any of the three that have been mentioned would be good for IFR. Be sure you have a yoke and pedals; they really help significantly. Have a look at VATSIM.NET, too. You actually interact with "real" ATC. Jason will hopefully chime in with more about that. I don't think you'll find anything appropriate that is entirely online; there just isn't enough bandwidth. Both X-Plane and MSFS-X are multiple DVDs.
Click to expand...
The only drawback to VATSIM is the lack of staffing in most of the country so you are on your own and flying in very empty skies if you aren't going to JFK, LAX, ORD or SEA. As someone who was previously a chief pilot for a virtual airline (~700 hrs), I have dealt with most of the issues addressed here and I will touch on them in other posts.
 
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