IFR routings and Foreflight.

[midlifeflyer]

I haven't filed IFR many times, but the few I have I get an "expected route" sent back to me from ForeFlight. Maybe it's because I'm using the ForeFlight routes in my initial planning/filing, but I've never gotten a different route than I've filed. Does anyone else have any experience with filing a route through ForeFlight and getting a different expected route returned to you? (And, if so, does it match what you're ultimately given in your clearance?)

The proposed routes in ForeFlight, like those in FltPlan.com, FlightAware and other online planners, are based on actual ATC route clearances given. So, more often than not, if you file them, they will be what you get as an expected, and ultimately cleared, route.

It's not because you filed the "ForeFlight route"; it's because you filed a commonly cleared route (I often file routes that are not a "ForeFlight route" with the same result).

That's not always the case, however. For example, IFR in busy areas are subject to change based on time of day, small changes in winds and weather, etc over a wide area.

My last "difference" was interesting. I filed Direct (mostly to see what would happen but in this case I also knew it was a commonly cleared route). My expected clearance was not direct, but when I called to open my IFR, the actual clearance was direct.

 

[AggieMike88]

Some more ForeFlight tips useful to IFR airmen:

Binders: In days of paper yore, pilots would sort out the approach plates from their main binder to form a small collection that they needed for that day's flying. In ForeFlight, you can do the equivalent.

Go to the Plates area, and tap the drop down menu at the top middle of the screen. A inset window called "Binders" will appear. Tap the "+" button to create a new binder and name it "TODAY" and save that. You'll next be shown a blank page with a "+ Add Plate". This will bring up the means to find the plate you want. Nearly anything you'd find in the Approach Chart Books can be added here (Airport Diagrams, ODP's, Arrival/Takeoff Mins, SIDS/STARS, and more).

Use "TODAY" binder for the spot that contains the plates you need for today's flight. But feel free for creating additional binders as you see the need. For example, I keep binders for KDTO and other local airports I frequent. Makes it very quick to find the desired plate.

To remove a plate, just tap the "Edit" button in the top left of the Plates screen, and then the red "X" on each plate you wish to remove.

-----------------------------------

Swipe Between Plates: Now that you have everything organized in binders, you can use a 3-finger left or right swipe gesture to change between the plates. Saving significant time closing the existing plate and opening the next one.

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Scribble on the Plate: In the days of paper yore, you could scribble notes on said paper. In ForeFlight you can do the same. While viewing the plate, look for the pencil button at the top left. This will change the top line of buttons to drawing tools. Use these to add all sorts of annotations to your plate ("Switch Frequencies here" "Set OBS#1 to 177° here" and more)

 

[mjburian]

I have been given a different expected route twice so far, and it has matched my clearance each time. Once was coming home from Detroit to Cleveland, and another was a local flight in Cleveland (where I was /U and filed direct and was emailed to expect vectors - I kinda knew that one already )

The expected matching the clearance has been my experience, too. I'm just afraid I'm getting spoiled and will, at some point, be expecting "cleared as filed" and instead get a long, drawn out reroute.

A couple of times I have filed using Foreflight out of South Florida (Miami area) and have received confirmation through Foreflight of my flight plan, however, clearance delivery has returned something different than what I filed. This has only happened to me in South Florida and probably is due to the busy Miami airspace.

Most of my flying is in relatively quiet airspace (save for OSH in late July), so that could be part of the reason my expected = cleared every time (so far).

The proposed routes in ForeFlight, like those in FltPlan.com, FlightAware and other online planners, are based on actual ATC route clearances given. So, more often than not, if you file them, they will be what you get as an expected, and ultimately cleared, route.

It's not because you filed the "ForeFlight route"; it's because you filed a commonly cleared route (I often file routes that are not a "ForeFlight route" with the same result).

That's not always the case, however. For example, IFR in busy areas are subject to change based on time of day, small changes in winds and weather, etc over a wide area.

My last "difference" was interesting. I filed Direct (mostly to see what would happen but in this case I also knew it was a commonly cleared route). My expected clearance was not direct, but when I called to open my IFR, the actual clearance was direct.

This is more what I expected to hear. That I've just been getting lucky based on time of day, airspace congestion, etc. Any idea how long the time period was between filing, getting your expected route and then getting the actual clearance? I'm wondering if the shorter that time period, the more likely you are to get the expected. (Basically, if there's a way for me to be as prepared as possible, I'd like to know it.)

 

[AggieMike88]

My last "difference" was interesting. I filed Direct (mostly to see what would happen but in this case I also knew it was a commonly cleared route). My expected clearance was not direct, but when I called to open my IFR, the actual clearance was direct.

Getting direct when you opened was a nice event. But we all need to remember the usefulness of FF or FlightPln showing us the expected so we can brief and prepare as needed.

I'd rather know and be ready for the more complicated departure than toddle out to the airport expecting direct and no other, only to get the complicated one and be caught with my plates around my ankles.

 

[mjburian]

caught with my plates around my ankles.

LOL.

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid as well.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The expected matching the clearance has been my experience, too. I'm just afraid I'm getting spoiled and will, at some point, be expecting "cleared as filed" and instead get a long, drawn out reroute.

Most of my flying is in relatively quiet airspace (save for OSH in late July), so that could be part of the reason my expected = cleared every time (so far).

We're lucky to be in Wisconsin, where you pretty much get direct destination all the time in-state unless you're crossing military airspace. Heck, you get direct destination almost all the time you're flying away from Wisconsin too, as long as you don't go through Chicago Approach airspace. It's when you cross the OH/PA line that you start getting re-routes.

I got a reroute in Wisconsin for the first time the other day. I was flying from KMWC to KSTP at 8000 feet and Volk was active, so I got direct Nodine (ODI) direct when I was around RANDO or so. Then, on the way home, I was assigned KSTP COULT6.DLL MWC, then got vectored some "for military airspace" even though the SID would have kept me clear. Then Chicago Center's radar failed and everyone started getting rerouted - I got direct BOOTY (which was nearby), V170 BAE KMWC. Once I was talking to Madison I asked for and received direct GREAS for the approach, and shortly thereafter the weather cleared up at KMWC and I went direct for the visual. Fun!

 

[midlifeflyer]

This is more what I expected to hear. That I've just been getting lucky based on time of day, airspace congestion, etc. Any idea how long the time period was between filing, getting your expected route and then getting the actual clearance? I'm wondering if the shorter that time period, the more likely you are to get the expected. (Basically, if there's a way for me to be as prepared as possible, I'd like to know it.)

I doubt one can come up with a good rule on this. In my situation, for example, my direct route would take me through a 24/7 continuous Restricted Area. So I wasn't all all surprised to get the non-direct routing - it was in fact the route I would have chosen if I did not file direct. As I said, I was mostly curious about what would happen.

On the other hand, when I opened my IFR flight plan, it was with the SUA's controlling authority which typically clears both VFR and IFR through the SUA when it is not actively in use.

On the timing itself, others can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the timing of the expected clearance is about the same no matter when you file. It's not as though you file 24 hours before you go and get your next day expected clearance an hour later. Too much can happen in the meantime for there to be any value in that.

And, of course, there is no accounting for re-routes while in flight, which can take place for various reasons, some good, some not so.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Getting direct when you opened was a nice event. But we all need to remember the usefulness of FF or FlightPln showing us the expected so we can brief and prepare as needed.

I'd rather know and be ready for the more complicated departure than toddle out to the airport expecting direct and no other, only to get the complicated one and be caught with my plates around my ankles.

Absolutely! It's a terrific benefit, even if there will be a reroute that is not direct.

 

[Marauder]

Since we are talking about IFR flight plans. Does anyone know how far out an IFR flight plan can be filed through these apps? I typically file within a few hours of departure but was curious how far out they would be accepted.

 

[AggieMike88]

Since we are talking about IFR flight plans. Does anyone know how far out an IFR flight plan can be filed through these apps? I typically file within a few hours of departure but was curious how far out they would be accepted.

When I was training with C'Ron, it was often the night before, but more often when we were transitioning from ground school time to loading into the van to head to the airport. Within 10-15 minutes of pressing file, we'd get the "expected" notification.

 

[poadeleted20]

Since we are talking about IFR flight plans. Does anyone know how far out an IFR flight plan can be filed through these apps? I typically file within a few hours of departure but was curious how far out they would be accepted.

I know from experience the limit is less than 24 hours before filed departure time, but not exactly what it is. FWIW, I've put them in at least 18 hours ahead and had them waiting.

 

[Brad Z]

Since we are talking about IFR flight plans. Does anyone know how far out an IFR flight plan can be filed through these apps? I typically file within a few hours of departure but was curious how far out they would be accepted.

Foreflight will accept it up to 24 hours in advance.

(https://www.foreflight.com/support/filing#37)

LM FSS will accept flight plans 30 days in advance, but sits on them until 1 hour prior to departure, when they are sent to ATC.

 

[John Collins]

Since we are talking about IFR flight plans. Does anyone know how far out an IFR flight plan can be filed through these apps? I typically file within a few hours of departure but was curious how far out they would be accepted.

With ForeFlight, it depends on who you use for filing. Here are the rules, if you have an account with DUATS.COM and input the login credentials, then all domestic flightplan forms are routed to your DUATS.COM account. All ICAO form flightplans are routed to Lockheed Martin.

If you do not have DUATS.COM account login credentials input to ForeFlight, then all flightplans domestic or ICAO format go to Lockheed Martin. In some cases, a domestic flightplan that fails because of some Lockheed Martin errors will be routed to DUATS.COM using the ForeFlight DUATS account.

So, if a flightplan is routed to DUATS. COM, the departure must be inside the window of 24:00 hours to go down to 30 minutes before departure. Once a flightplan is filed, it may not be cancelled or amended thru ForeFlight, but the user may log into their own account and cancel and amend the flightplan up to two hours prior to ETD. Calling 1-800-WXBRIEF won't be able to view the flightplan. A flightplan in the system is delivered to ATC 2 hours prior to ETD.

If the flightplan is routed to Lockheed Martin, the departure window is greatly expanded to ETD -27 days to - 5 minutes. Also for an IFR flightplan, it may be cancelled or amended up to 30 minutes prior to departure using ForeFlight. If a flightplan is in the system longer than 3 hours, it will be transmitted to ATC at ETD -3:00 but may be amended or closed until -0:30 ETD. For flightplans that are in the system for a longer time than -17:00 ETD, at -17:00 ETD they are delivered to ATC for advance capacity planning where the early bird gets the best routing when there are capacity constraints. If the flightplan is VFR and you have internet connectivity, you can activate your flightplan from within ForeFlight. I have a 4G service on my iPad and can activate my VFR flightplan just before I take the runway. In a similar way, you can close your flightplan when you get to your destination from within ForeFlight. A VFR flightplan may be activated up to two hours past the filed ETD, may be amended anytime until it is closed, and may be closed anytime after it is activated. Cancel and Brief are also options.

Edit: A flightplan filed thru ForeFlight with Lockheed Martin can be accessed by a FSS briefer by calling 1-800-WXBRIEF.

Because of all of these benefits, I removed my DUATS.COM credentials from ForeFlight. They are kept in the More>Accounts>DUATS Login.

 

[ChrisK]

John that post was so informative and excellent that I forwarded it immediately to several people. It also explains why my two iPads behave differently - one of them has my DUATS account.

 

[Marauder]

Thanks John. I have a flight scheduled for Friday and filed it tonight to see what happened. I am using Garmin Pilot, so I will see if anything happens differently than what you noted.

I have my CSC DUATS credentials in Garmin Pilot and when I hit "file" it usually says Garmin has filed the plan. I will look in CSC and see if anything shows up there.

The reason for my query is that I have several flights for this weekend and won't have access to WiFi or cellular connection through my iPads for a couple of those flights. I will need to call in the other plans if I can't file them through the app.

Thanks again, very useful information!

 

[John Collins]

Thanks John. I have a flight scheduled for Friday and filed it tonight to see what happened. I am using Garmin Pilot, so I will see if anything happens differently than what you noted.

I have my CSC DUATS credentials in Garmin Pilot and when I hit "file" it usually says Garmin has filed the plan. I will look in CSC and see if anything shows up there.

The reason for my query is that I have several flights for this weekend and won't have access to WiFi or cellular connection through my iPads for a couple of those flights. I will need to call in the other plans if I can't file them through the app.

Thanks again, very useful information!

My information applies strictly to ForeFlight in conjunction with DUATS.COM and Lockheed Martin and not to Garmin Pilot.

 

[Marauder]

My information applies strictly to ForeFlight in conjunction with DUATS.COM and Lockheed Martin and not to Garmin Pilot.

John -- just a little information to further the conversation. I filed last night on the Garmin Pilot. This was filed roughly 34 hours before my 8 am (local) scheduled departure time on Friday. GP said it filed the IFR flight plan but I did not receive the normal email I receive if I file within several hours of departure.

I went into CSC DUATS last night and went to look for the flight plan. It was not there. At 9 am this morning, I received an email from Garmin stating that it was filed. I went into CSC DUATS and found the flight plan was there. So, it looks like GP will hold onto the flight plan if it is greater than the 24 hour window and file it with DUATS when it is within 24.

Now the question is how far out will they hold it?

 

[midlifeflyer]

John -- just a little information to further the conversation. I filed last night on the Garmin Pilot. This was filed roughly 34 hours before my 8 am (local) scheduled departure time on Friday. GP said it filed the IFR flight plan but I did not receive the normal email I receive if I file within several hours of departure.

I went into CSC DUATS last night and went to look for the flight plan. It was not there. At 9 am this morning, I received an email from Garmin stating that it was filed. I went into CSC DUATS and found the flight plan was there. So, it looks like GP will hold onto the flight plan if it is greater than the 24 hour window and file it with DUATS when it is within 24.

Now the question is how far out will they hold it?

That's going to depend on the provider. I think I can do months and months worth of flight plans on FltPlan.com and check "file this Plan" and the system will just hold it until the appropriate time.

If it's important to know, maybe you can just try to file one for 6 months from now and see if the system rejects it.

 

[Marauder]

That's going to depend on the provider. I think I can do months and months worth of flight plans on FltPlan.com and check "file this Plan" and the system will just hold it until the appropriate time.



If it's important to know, maybe you can just try to file one for 6 months from now and see if the system rejects it.

It would be an interesting experiment. I always assumed that I had to file within 24 hours to get it into the system. There are times when it would have been convenient to file for a day I expected to return from a backwoods adventure.

I will give it a try and see what happens.