IFR License

[saracelica]

Okay, everyone knows me I'm the eternal student. My husband has an IFR license. But got me wondering...do people really use it alot? As much as I'd like to catch up to my husbands licenses all I've seen in the last year and a half is him just getting current with the CFI and never using it. Okay maybe we went through a cloud or two but that was because we could. So how many people Instrument rated use it alot/not much/hardly ever/just bragging rights.

 

[gprellwitz]

Okay, everyone knows me I'm the eternal student. My husband has an IFR license. But got me wondering...do people really use it alot? As much as I'd like to catch up to my husbands licenses all I've seen in the last year and a half is him just getting current with the CFI and never using it. Okay maybe we went through a cloud or two but that was because we could. So how many people Instrument rated use it alot/not much/hardly ever/just bragging rights.

I definitely use it. A lot of the flights I've done this year were made a lot easier with the rating. That's not to say that they were not doable VFR, but they would have been a lot harder and may have had to change dates or something. Flying in the system is a lot easier, too! Having said that, I almost never need to do an approach. And, even IFR, there are some times when we still cancel, like 6Y9, where we opted to drive because of thunderstorms.

 

[murphey]

It depends where you live and what type of flying you do. Out here in Colorado, if it's imc, it's usually not a good idea in a small airplane. On the other hand, getting out of the airport with a benign fog covering it, when it, s clear and sunny 5 miles away and you know the fog will be gone by the time you retun, sure, no problem.

And it will make you a much more precise and better pilot. Tell me where to land on the runway and I can stick it every time.

 

[seand]

I fly through and in clouds pretty often. Rarely fly real approaches. I went from nearly 50/50 cancelation to worst case delaying by a few hours. Flying IFR is not necessarily about flying approaches down to minimums on dark stormy nights... that would be a no-go for me but it's also never been a factor. As silly as it sounds, I sleep much better while on trips and don't worry anywhere near as much about the weather.

I've also had a number of flights I had to make VFR instead of IFR... sometimes it's safer out of the clouds. I've called up clearance in blue skies and been told I'm held for 30 minutes for IFR because of bad weather elsewhere, but I can depart VFR immediately.

The big downside though is that it can take the barnstormer out of your flying. You aren't tactically deciding how to avoid airspace and dodge clouds "in the moment" anywhere near as much. IFR cruise is about as boring as flying can get (other than waiting on the ground for things to clear up to fly out VFR).

 

[poadeleted20]

I use mine a lot, and often not just for weather. For example, in the DC area, Potomac TRACON generally will not let VFR aircraft transit the Class B airspace unless they're going somewhere inside the airspace (e.g., landing at BWI). An IFR clearance gets you happily across the B-space. A similar situation exists in the NY area regarding transit of the B-space from Long Island to New Jersey. In addition, there are many days when a flight could be made VFR below the clouds, but that would entail a bumpy and uncomfortable ride, and a hot and humid one in the summer. An IFR clearance gets you on top into smooth, cool, dry air for a pleasant, comfortable ride.

Put it all together, and if you fly enough to maintain your IFR proficiency, getting the rating is a good choice.

 

[steingar]

Being in Northern Ohio you'll get lots of opportunity. Trust me. Heck the trip I just drove I would have flown had I the IR.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I lot of flights I do are undoable without it. I spent years commuting from the Bay Area to the Central Valley and back, and much of the time at least ONE of the legs would be an IFR flight, as the coast gets the marine layer in the Summer, and the valley gets fog and weather in the Winter. If you intend on relying on an airplane to reliably get you from point A to point B consistently, I think it is important.

 

[Henning]

Rare, I prefer it down low.

 

[wabower]

During the 30-odd years I flew for business, the IR was invaluable, but more for planning than actually flying in IMC. Knowing that you can probably go-unless the WX is really bad-is a huge relief compared to sweating out the marginal VFR days.

 

[Jaybird180]

During my PP Oral Grilling and Frying on airspace, the DPE stepped away for a minute and a pilot walked over and said, "that's why I don't fool with VFR anymore".

 

[Palmpilot]

Okay, everyone knows me I'm the eternal student. My husband has an IFR license. But got me wondering...do people really use it alot? As much as I'd like to catch up to my husbands licenses all I've seen in the last year and a half is him just getting current with the CFI and never using it. Okay maybe we went through a cloud or two but that was because we could. So how many people Instrument rated use it alot/not much/hardly ever/just bragging rights.

I don't use mine a lot, but when I need it, I would have to either divert, or delay the trip until better weather if I didn't have the rating. It definitely made life easier when I was flying up to Seattle and Portland on a regular basis.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I use it for TFR insurance, and like Ron, filing in and around the SFRA it makes life much easier. As far as weather flying, I'm not much for minimums. I like at least 600' ceilings for departures and approaches. I'm not really a 200 and 1/2 guy.
IFR's a lot easier than VFR in busy airspace. It's rare that I don't file.

 

[Ghery]

I don't use mine a lot, but when I need it, I would have to either divert, or delay the trip until better weather if I didn't have the rating. It definitely made life easier when I was flying up to Seattle and Portland on a regular basis.

I live in that area, and that's why I got my IR. Still lots of weather where the plane stays in the hangar, but it does expand the go side of the go/no go envelope.

 

[Fearless Tower]

IFR's a lot easier than VFR in busy airspace. It's rare that I don't file.

Very true....it is extremely rare to have to do an instrument approach into PHX, but I'd never go there unless I was IFR

 

[azure]

Being in Northern Ohio you'll get lots of opportunity. Trust me. Heck the trip I just drove I would have flown had I the IR.

Yep. I had a trip to Columbus planned the weekend after Labor Day where I ended up driving because I still don't have the rating. If I'd had it, it would have been a cinch flying down there, "gentleman's IFR" in fact. Without it, it would have been scud running in some places, or risking getting caught on top.

Now getting back... let's just say I got home earlier on Sunday driving back than I could have flying IFR. In fact, I wouldn't have filed in that kind of weather. With scattered storms dotting the landscape and still a few low ceilings, I probably would have had to postpone departure until Monday.

 

[LDJones]

The stress relief it offers is it's biggest benefit...knowing you have more options available. I "need" it probably 20% of the time, but use it probably 80% oof the time for reasons stated...it's just easier for a lot of flights. Actual approaches are relatively infrequent, but always satisfying when they get you where you're going!

As also noted, you WILL be a better pilot after acquiring the rating.

 

[BellyUpFish]

10-15 times, every other week.

 

[MBDiagMan]

If I remember correctly I am at about the same point in my flying career as you. I remember reading about your checkride, so you are on the verge of it or recently passed it. I am very close to going for my checkride.

From what I read in "The Killing Zone," a book I highly recommend for new pilots, whether you ever fly in IMC or not, getting your IR will make you statistically a safer pilot. That's not a bad thing.

As soon as I pass my checkride I will go directly into my IR training. Not only do I plan on this making a better and safer pilot out of me, it is a necessary step since my goal is CFI.

 

[dell30rb]

I took my first IR lesson about 2 months after I earned my PPL. I still have about 20 hours cross country PIC to log before I can go for the IR checkride.

Really enjoying the instrument stuff. As everyone has said it will make you a better pilot and allow you to plan cross country flights with less stress. If I had to guess... there are probably only 10 days a year in NC that the ceilings are hard IFR or there is significant embedded tstorm activity to preclude IFR flight. For the VFR pilot the number of no-go days is more like 50-60 days a year.

 

[godfreypilot]

I have an interesting perspective. I got the rating about a year ago, but it has actually been limiting in what I can do. As a college student, I can generally afford to only fly around two hours a month. Because I spent the money on the rating, I refuse to let my instrument currency expire (at least for the time being). As a result, almost 90% of my flights are spend practicing approaches to keep myself current, instead of doing other things like sightseeing, the $100 hamburger, etc.

If you fly very little (say, less than 30 hours a year), I'd skip the instrument rating until you're able to / you choose to fly more. Keeps more doors open that way

 

[dell30rb]

I have an interesting perspective. I got the rating about a year ago, but it has actually been limiting in what I can do. As a college student, I can generally afford to only fly around two hours a month. Because I spent the money on the rating, I refuse to let my instrument currency expire (at least for the time being). As a result, almost 90% of my flights are spend practicing approaches to keep myself current, instead of doing other things like sightseeing, the $100 hamburger, etc.

If you fly very little (say, less than 30 hours a year), I'd skip the instrument rating until you're able to / you choose to fly more. Keeps more doors open that way

Get access to a simulator. Not the same as the real thing but you can keep yourself current.. if you're rusty just pick and choose your days so that you don't have to fly any hard IFR but you have the rating available if you need it.

 

[Jaybird180]

I have an interesting perspective. I got the rating about a year ago, but it has actually been limiting in what I can do. As a college student, I can generally afford to only fly around two hours a month. Because I spent the money on the rating, I refuse to let my instrument currency expire (at least for the time being). As a result, almost 90% of my flights are spend practicing approaches to keep myself current, instead of doing other things like sightseeing, the $100 hamburger, etc.

If you fly very little (say, less than 30 hours a year), I'd skip the instrument rating until you're able to / you choose to fly more. Keeps more doors open that way

You need a simulator

 

[Henning]

Very true....it is extremely rare to have to do an instrument approach into PHX, but I'd never go there unless I was IFR

Really? I picked up and dropped off a buddy there flying VFR and had no problems. Actually they brought me in sweet, direct in on short base to final, none of that sequencing in 35 miles out of the way. They got me in and out of their way as quick as possible. I though they were great.

 

[GMascelli]

I use it for TFR insurance, and like Ron, filing in and around the SFRA it makes life much easier. As far as weather flying, I'm not much for minimums. I like at least 600' ceilings for departures and approaches. I'm not really a 200 and 1/2 guy.
IFR's a lot easier than VFR in busy airspace. It's rare that I don't file.

+1 what Chip and Ron said. I file most flights unless it's the occasional 20 minute hop to the beach for breakfast over the flatlands of southern Jersey with no airspace worries.

Mary and I recently went to Nashville over Labor Day weekend and the IR ticket paid for itself both directions. The same can be said for our recent Beech Aero Club festival in Ithaca New York. We would have been stuck on the ground a few days if not for the IR letting me bug out on Sunday while others (VFR) had to wait it out.

 

[Ted]

While a lot of the flights I do could be done VFR, a lot of them couldn't be done without it. For a large number of pilots, though (specifically people who focus on local flights), I don't think it does a lot.

The instrument rating, even more than the private pilot certificate, is intolerant of a lack of proficiency when failures occur. If you're going to get it, you need to make sure that you're going to devote appropriate effort to maintaining proficiency, or else just accept that you'll have a rating that you never use.

 

[j1b3h0]

Sara-

An instrument rating is a fine way to broaden your horizons. It's good to learn how to get just what you want from ATC, and know that if you come home from somewhere a layer of stratus isn't going to put you out of business.
That said, let me use another analogy: On a nice day, with the tide just right, a good sailor can sail an El toro (8ft. sailboat with a daggerboard) across the San Francisco bay. Other days, an expert sailor might have 50-50 odds, what with 25kt winds, 6kt ebb or flood tide and 4ft chop, he might end up with a capsized little boat, clinging to the daggerboard.
In many ways, light single-engine airplanes are more like the El toro than, say, the Queen Mary. And, if it's any consolation, the Queen Mary Captain won't have any better luck on the El toro, when the wind and tide pipe up on the San Francisco Bay.
Light single-engine airplanes rarely have enough power, redundancy, de-ice/anti-ice, and, most often, an experienced pilot at the helm to fly IFR.
There are turbo-charged singles with fancy-pants panels that allow a person a good deal of utility, given the right skill set.
One of the things experience teaches is the PRACTICALITY of using a given aircraft for a certain purpose. An experienced pilot knows how heavy, how far, and how bad the weather can (practically) be before he or she says "I'm not going". Even one of those high-dollar singles without a skipper who knows what he's doing might as well be a 65hp Luscombe, in bad weather.
So, to summarize, an instrument rating will make YOU a better pilot. It will not, however enable you to take a 172 into a major winter storm.

 

[Ted]

Light single-engine airplanes rarely have enough power, redundancy, de-ice/anti-ice, and, most often, an experienced pilot at the helm to fly IFR.

I think there are a lot of people on here who'd disagree with that statement. The instrument rating in a light single can still give you a lot of utility on days that you'd otherwise be grounded in a lot of parts of the country. You are correct that, in a lot of locations and a lot of days, you're still grounded. But for punching through thin layers, etc., it can still work out well.

For hard IFR, I agree fully, and you need at minimum a FIKI twin (with appropriately capable pilot) to be able to fly safely on most days. I can count on one hand the times I've had to cancel flying the Aztec or 310. Part of that's been my luck in picking days I want to fly, but I lost count of the number of times that I couldn't have flown a single, and also have lost count of the number of times that having two engines have made a failure a non-event that would've been a significant "Oh ****" moment in a single.

 

[p1l0t]

Okay, everyone knows me I'm the eternal student. My husband has an IFR license. But got me wondering...do people really use it alot? As much as I'd like to catch up to my husbands licenses all I've seen in the last year and a half is him just getting current with the CFI and never using it. Okay maybe we went through a cloud or two but that was because we could. So how many people Instrument rated use it alot/not much/hardly ever/just bragging rights.

In New England, especially in the Spring and Fall, every other day is IMC. I tend to file IFR anyway for any trip over 50nm. You don't have to stay clear of the clouds (aside from Airmet ZULU), you don't have to divert as often for unforecast conditions, and [to an extent] you get preferential treatment over VFR traffic at busy controlled airports. Plus you get stuck at far away places much less. Which depending on where is sometimes a good thing. The rating will make you a much better pilot too, especially if keep current with it.

<---<^>--->

 

[j1b3h0]

I think there are a lot of people on here who'd disagree with that statement. The instrument rating in a light single can still give you a lot of utility on days that you'd otherwise be grounded in a lot of parts of the country. You are correct that, in a lot of locations and a lot of days, you're still grounded. But for punching through thin layers, etc., it can still work out well.

You're right, single-engine airplanes are getting very sophisticated with their dual alternators, TKS and flat panels. As long as the person in the hero chair uses his head, one can fly most parts of the country.

For hard IFR, I agree fully, and you need at minimum a FIKI twin (with appropriately capable pilot) to be able to fly safely on most days. I can count on one hand the times I've had to cancel flying the Aztec or 310. Part of that's been my luck in picking days I want to fly, but I lost count of the number of times that I couldn't have flown a single, and also have lost count of the number of times that having two engines have made a failure a non-event that would've been a significant "Oh ****" moment in a single.

Just one man's opinion, but I'd rather be in a T210 than an Aztec or 310, (regardless of deice equipment) unless the twins are turbod. And when you're IMC in an Aztec, Make darn sure you have the alternate airs full on.
If you don't you may be provided with some memorable entertainment like what happened to me one dark and stormy night over the Sierras.

 

[gprellwitz]

Just one man's opinion, but I'd rather be in a T210 than an Aztec or 310, (regardless of deice equipment) unless the twins are turbod. And when you're IMC in an Aztec, Make darn sure you have the alternate airs full on.
If you don't you may be provided with some memorable entertainment like what happened to me one dark and stormy night over the Sierras.

Ah, IMC in mountainous terrain at night with storms? That's a whole 'nother ballgame!

 

[Ted]

Just one man's opinion, but I'd rather be in a T210 than an Aztec or 310, (regardless of deice equipment) unless the twins are turbod.

And that's why we all have our own preferences. I would like turbos, but don't have them. However, I'll take the FIKI NA twins I fly over a turbo single any day for a lot of reasons. I have been in a few situations where having turbos would have been nice. I've been in a lot more situations where having two engines has been very, very nice.

And when you're IMC in an Aztec, Make darn sure you have the alternate airs full on. If you don't you may be provided with some memorable entertainment like what happened to me one dark and stormy night over the Sierras.

Interesting tip, hadn't heard that before. Thanks!

 

[ronnieh]

I have been watching this post but, staying out of it. Almost all of my flying is above 18,000 so the question is a moot point for me. However some good points have been made. I agree with a lot of what Doug says however, I am in the Ifly camp on the number of engines. I have in years past flown IFR in a well equipped single but I don't do it anymore, mostly because I do not have to. What bothers me most are those that claim they want it just in case. That is scary!! I am completely with Doug on this. You put a 300 hour IR pilot in a King Air and turn him loose in hard IFR and it ain't going to turn out very well. I remember a post a while back, "first time in hard IFR". What he described was just barely IFR. The IR license does not differentiate between ducking through a thin marine layer and making a night approach into a mountain airport with 600/2 with blowing snow. You need to know your and your planes capability and then stay proficient at that level. The level may change but, whatever level you are at stay proficient at it, not just in case. My $.02

 

[Ted]

I have been watching this post but, staying out of it. Almost all of my flying is above 18,000 so the question is a moot point for me. However some good points have been made. I agree with a lot of what Doug says however, I am in the Ifly camp on the number of engines. I have in years past flown IFR in a well equipped single but I don't do it anymore, mostly because I do not have to. What bothers me most are those that claim they want it just in case. That is scary!! I am completely with Doug on this. You put a 300 hour IR pilot in a King Air and turn him loose in hard IFR and it ain't going to turn out very well. I remember a post a while back, "first time in hard IFR". What he described was just barely IFR. The IR license does not differentiate between ducking through a thin marine layer and making a night approach into a mountain airport with 600/2 with blowing snow. You need to know your and your planes capability and then stay proficient at that level. The level may change but, whatever level you are at stay proficient at it, not just in case. My $.02

Hard IFR... yeah, I remember a lot of nights where the radar was solid dark yellow with bits of red for my whole flight. Take off in <800 OVC, land in same. AP inop, etc. Throw some ice into the mix for fun.

For me a fun IR day is one where I take off into benign clouds and sit there until I break out on the approach. Embedded thunderstorms, icing, and the rest provide more fun to the mix. I fly over the middle of nowhere in places where I need on-board radar to have any sort of safety factor when weather is around, and two engines are mandatory because there ain't nobody anywhere near where I am (either on the ground or on the radio - sometimes over water). So it needs to be two engines with reasonable single engine performance. I don't fly in the western mountains of the country often, so turbos aren't a big deal. But two engines/alternators/vacuum pumps/4 magnetos? You betcha.

 

[j1b3h0]

I can remember being a young 135 freighter dog and getting to work at about 8:30 at night. It was very windy and raining like crazy, rows of airplanes straining against their tiedown ropes. There was about 2000lb of soaking wet cargo on the ground, next to the Piper Chieftain I was to fly. My boss must have seen the look of anxiety on my face, and then said "Well, get on with it - throw that **** in the airplane and get outa here." Ten minutes after I was airborne I was finally able to relax a little. The first year of night freight was a steep learning curve. What to be afraid of, what to never do again. How heavy can I fly this thing, and how to recognize a loaded airplane that's too aft CG. Iciing, yikes! How to keep charts organized, and what to do when you're halfway through your descent, screaming along at 180kts, (doesn't seem so fast, now) in the middle of stage-cooling, and they change runways...to an approach you've never done, a kinky one, with back-course localizer to mins...well, you get the idea. It was about survival. I don't think that is what the OP had in mind with regards her instrument rating.

 

[gprellwitz]

I can remember being a young 135 freighter dog and getting to work at about 8:30 at night. It was very windy and raining like crazy, rows of airplanes straining against their tiedown ropes. There was about 2000lb of soaking wet cargo on the ground, next to the Piper Chieftain I was to fly. My boss must have seen the look of anxiety on my face, and then said "Well, get on with it - throw that **** in the airplane and get outa here." Ten minutes after I was airborne I was finally able to relax a little. The first year of night freight was a steep learning curve. What to be afraid of, what to never do again. How heavy can I fly this thing, and how to recognize a loaded airplane that's too aft CG. Iciing, yikes! How to keep charts organized, and what to do when you're halfway through your descent, screaming along at 180kts, (doesn't seem so fast, now) in the middle of stage-cooling, and they change runways...to an approach you've never done, a kinky one, with back-course localizer to mins...well, you get the idea. It was about survival. I don't think that is what the OP had in mind with regards her instrument rating.

Yeah, I think you're right! :wink2:

 

[ronnieh]

My hat off to ANY freight dog that is still alive. There is not that much luck in the world. When I started flying turbines I looked up an old dog friend of mine to mentor me the first 25 hours. I came out of a Chieften. No better training, if you survive!! Note to you new IR pilots. If you have the nerve and want to learn the real world of instruments find you an active freight dog that has > 700-800 hours in freight and beg a seat with them.

 

[Ted]

My hat off to ANY freight dog that is still alive. There is not that much luck in the world. When I started flying turbines I looked up an old dog friend of mine to mentor me the first 25 hours. I came out of a Chieften. No better training, if you survive!! Note to you new IR pilots. If you have the nerve and want to learn the real world of instruments find you an active freight dog that has > 700-800 hours in freight and beg a seat with them.

I'd agree fully. Granted, I'm dog freight (rather than freight dog), but similar concept. Danos can give his opinion of the dog freight IR training program.

 

[p1l0t]

Well let's keep her mission in mind here.. She's flying for recreation or personal business. There is no one saying "Don't bother to check the weather yoour going anyway.." If the conditions are bad even for IFR she could just stay home, roast marshmellows, and sip some wine.

<---<^>--->

 

[GCA319]

I use it as much as I can living in NM flying piston singles i.e. not enough...

 

[GCA319]

I definitely use it. A lot of the flights I've done this year were made a lot easier with the rating. That's not to say that they were not doable VFR, but they would have been a lot harder and may have had to change dates or something. Flying in the system is a lot easier, too! Having said that, I almost never need to do an approach. And, even IFR, there are some times when we still cancel, like 6Y9, where we opted to drive because of thunderstorms.

Honestly, in piston singles I've cancelled more potential IFR flights than VFR flights. Other times, I've maintained VFR below the bases to stay out of embedded CBs and/or ice even if the weather wasn't exactly the best VFR mother nature has to give us (doable, but not the best). I won't argue that flying in the system is alot easier than VFR flying. Airspace? Who cares, just don't bust any speed limits or VFR cloud clearance requirements should you decide to cancel.