IFR Flight Planning - Approach Selection

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
Just kind of curious how approach selection is really done. Do most pilots have a specific approach picked out as part of their original flight plan? What do airlines do?

Also wondering if there is a name for choosing an approach that has a DH/MAP that puts them at an altitude below the weather ceiling? Been looking at an accident report that came up as a topic during a flight review. I don't have that much IFR experience, just wondering.

See here if interested in the report-> http://code7700.com/accident_air_cargo_carriers_1260.htm
 
kontiki said:
I don't have that much IFR experience
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Hmmm, are you IFR rated at all? This is basic stuff...
They have "expected" approach when they take off but this can change of course (if your flight is 10+ hrs long you bet things may change). The approach itself is not really part of the flight plan (not the way I have been filing), I had controllers ask me what type of approach I wanted once I was certain distance from the destination.
 
The ATIS will tell you which approach to expect. You can always request another approach with approach control and they may or may not accommodate you.
 
In Teterboro, take the approach they advertise, they won't change, my experience anyway, they are hardasses.
 
Initial flight planning I will brief available plates and have a tentative plan according to the destination weather at time of departure. As another noted, things change. Be prepared, I update weather as soon as possible AWOS, ATIS whatever the destination airport provides. Plan on that updated wx report for runway/approach. Again just a 'plan' things change as you approach. Always have an alternate, you never know.

I have no clue what airlines do.
 
At towered airports they "advertise" the approach in use. We can ask for another; sometimes we get it sometimes we don't. . At nontowered airports, ATC will ask us which approach we want.

From a preflight planing standpoint, we look at the weather, our route of flight, and our equipment and review those approaches which make sense, understanding that winds change.

I don't know of a "name" for "choosing an approach that has a DH/MAP that puts them at an altitude below the weather ceiling." I would just call it being sensible.
 
You may be thinking of CATII or CATIII approaches which gets you below CAT I visibility requirements. At my airline, we can do CATII approaches which let’s us shoot the approach down to RVR1200 and 100ft AGL. Most CATI approaches can only get you down to 1/2 mile visibility. Also, keep in mind for part 91, you can still try the approach, even if you don’t have the required visibility.
 
jordane93 said:
The ATIS will tell you which approach to expect. You can always request another approach with approach control and they may or may not accommodate you.
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midlifeflyer said:
At towered airports they "advertise" the approach in use. We can ask for another; sometimes we get it sometimes we don't. . At nontowered airports, ATC will ask us which approach we want.

From a preflight planing standpoint, we look at the weather, our route of flight, and our equipment and review those approaches which make sense, understanding that winds change.

I don't know of a "name" for "choosing an approach that has a DH/MAP that puts them at an altitude below the weather ceiling." I would just call it being sensible.
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This.
 
FWIW, I haven't flown an instrument approach in a few years. When I did, it was specifically to practice approaches. I work for an airline and most everything we have is Cat3 approved, I only have a vague idea how the flight plans are generated. I believe our OPS center files them, and for most fleets, the crews request their departure clearances through the FMC via an ACARS link, which automatically loads it into the FMC if they accept it. It's a FANS Next Gen thing they are working the bugs out of.
 
His signature suggests he is PP-SEL (I bet VFR only), aircraft owner and works on avionics for some airline.
 
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When you are within range of a controlled airport, you can pick up ATIS which will broadcast the approach in use to expect. ATC will normally remind you to check ATIS for that information if you don't have it already. Usually you can request and be granted another approach, say the GPS instead of the ILS. At an uncontrolled airport in IFR conditions, ATC will normally ask you which approach you want to fly based on your receiving the destination AWOS.
 
I think a lot can start by looking at the TAF for the ETA. If no forecast at that particular airport(smaller) look at a nearby reporting station.

Once the Forecast is known, peek at the Notams. We can get deeper with considerations of equipment & pilot training. With WX & winds one should have an idea about landing.
 
Think of your flight plan as your "Dream Sheet". It's what you would want to do if ATC took a powder. Of course, you want to temper that with practicality. No way you're going to be allowed to swim against the tide all day long. As noted, you don't specify an approach on the flight plan, but you should know which ones you favor given your equipment, weather and performance ability (speaking mainly of missed approach climb gradient here).
 
sourdough44 said:
I think a lot can start by looking at the TAF for the ETA. If no forecast at that particular airport(smaller) look at a nearby reporting station.

Once the Forecast is known, peek at the Notams. We can get deeper with considerations of equipment & pilot training. With WX & winds one should have an idea about landing.
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dtuuri said:
Think of your flight plan as your "Dream Sheet". It's what you would want to do if ATC took a powder. Of course, you want to temper that with practicality. No way you're going to be allowed to swim against the tide all day long. As noted, you don't specify an approach on the flight plan, but you should know which ones you favor given your equipment, weather and performance ability (speaking mainly of missed approach climb gradient here).
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I make the approaches part of my preflight briefing, generally before I get in the plane. I pick the most likely runway based on forecast, look at the approaches available and the mins, then check out the notams. Makes life much easier. That said, my training consisted choosing approaches, or having them chosen for me by my instructor, setting up, briefing and executing on the fly. I became an expert at asking for delay vectors and it is good practice for reality in my opinion.
 
If it's available, pick the one you're equipped for that's into the wind.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
If it's available, pick the one you're equipped for that's into the wind.
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Unless you gotta use the facilities real bad, have a tailwind, and the ceiling is high enough, shoot it with the wind and circle to land. Sometimes going into the wind adds 20-40 minutes to the flight. :eek:
 
For real travel, I print the plates for the destination, especially at non-towered, since there are likely to only be a couple - in case my iPad goes tango uniform.

Pre-flight weather check will give you a pretty good idea of what approach options you'll get, though in our sloooow 172, things may change on a longer leg.
 
jordane93 said:
You may be thinking of CATII or CATIII approaches which gets you below CAT I visibility requirements. At my airline, we can do CATII approaches which let’s us shoot the approach down to RVR1200 and 100ft AGL. Most CATI approaches can only get you down to 1/2 mile visibility. Also, keep in mind for part 91, you can still try the approach, even if you don’t have the required visibility.
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He may be able to disregard reported ground visibility as a Part 91 pilot but he cannot use CAT II DAs or CAT III DAs/AHs. Those require special authorization.
 
One thing about advertised approaches. There are plenty of other approaches (primarily GPS ones) that functionally overlay, while not published as such, said advertised approach. The ILS at KMYF or the LOC at KHHR come to mind. I always just ask for the RNAV versions, cause ATC would really have no reason to deny those, as they are the exact same thing (though, you need to do the KHHR one on AP or with a FD if they are, as always, doing simultaneous approaches with KLAX).
 
Always a good idea to consider RW lighting. The nearest apt around here with ILS has MALSR & REIL. Good pick. 30 miles away, another nice airport with two intersecting rws has four non prec approaches. Three rws have REIL, one nothing. LPV is nice, but doesn't compensate for lousy lights.
MALSR has an unadvertised advantage. Heat. I've seen it go down to Zero obscured & 1/4 mile in a flash at 0930. We legally continued the procedure and when over the approach lights the heat from the halogen lights made it almost vfr. You can also count on a 8,500 X 200 X 3ft thick slab of concrete to retain heat and clear the air over the td zone.
 
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