I guess that means you don't know, but still felt the urge to say something.
If you are above 10k you are above Class B airspace - just saying...
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If you are above 10k you are above Class B airspace - just saying...
Doesn't save much time on our route...your angle might vary.
You can be too cute by half doing that. I knew a corporate chief pilot who would cancel in order to avoid Class B vectors. He'd cancel above the top and go VFR direct to his home base. One day he had a close encounter of an airline kind and his CEO received a scathing letter from the airline flight's captain, calling into question the judgment of the chief pilot. The pilot soon lost his job after that incident.
At one time STl was the same way. I've done the same and it worked out fine.
I'm opposed to privatized ATC and this has nothing to do with it. The airline captain was right, it's a stupid thing to do. The CEO concurred. Bye-bye chief pilot.
oh no, @JOhnH, I know. The answer is that IFR you fly what they tell you to fly. You don't have a choice in the matter - so WTF does it matter?
Ok, let me set the scene. You can be the chief pilot. You talked the CEO into upgrading from a KingAir to a Cessna Citation with one of those brand new two-waypoint RNAVs that let you move a nearby VOR over to the airport so you can track directly to it. The salesman said it would pay for itself in fuel savings, so naturally you need/want to use it as much as possible. So you get in the habit of canceling IFR as you're coming out of the flight levels at the red line at the first sign you aren't going to get direct to the airport because of traffic. You become a pest to ATC which is only trying to keep airplanes from colliding. One day, you pull your little snit-fit and have a "too close for comfort" encounter with an airliner. Maybe you were legal. Maybe there was 500 feet of separation. Maybe there wasn't. Maybe you were descending through an IFR altitude. Maybe the airliner was descending through a VFR altitude. Who cares. It was TOO CLOSE! Can you still defend yourself? If you were CEO would you want to be a passenger of that pilot's?
VFR is see and avoid whether the other traffic is IFR or VFR. Traffic advisories may be given. If the airliner gets an RA on the TCAS they have to follow it (as I understand it). In other words it isn't cut and dried as you might like it to be. Did the airliner driver go overboard? Maybe. Is dtuuuurrrrriiii overboard? Sometimes. As always YMWV.
This is an example of when dtuuuuurrrriii is over the top. Why did he make up a story about upgrading from a king air? Why did he use the words "snit-fit"?
It sure does... a high altitude route will be much different than a low altitude route through a bravo.
I would certainly have an issue with the lack of separation. But it seems to me that the issue was caused by some failure in the system, not the canceling of IFR.
This happened when class B was known as a TCA. I knew the pilot, flew with him as copilot a few times and can vouch for his reasoning. But I don't know the details first hand or saw the letter or ever even discussed it with the person later. The story was told to me by someone else and it's been so long ago I don't remember who told me. If anybody made it up, it wasn't me. But it sure fits. I've seen 500' separation from VFR traffic in Pittsburgh's class B, close up and personal, and still remember it 20 years later. I suspect some of these pundits here never have. The next time they line up and wait I hope they take a gander at the touchdown marker 1000' down the runway and picture a big transport zooming over the windshield half that distance above. Or even a commuter for that matter.
Your first point, without knowing the specifics it's foolish to comment one way or the other imo.
That's a pretty all inclusive statement. It would be like saying all Cirrus drivers are half a$$ pilots hoping the plane fly themselves. Or saying all people with red vehicles are trying to compensate for something.
That's a pretty all inclusive statement. It would be like saying all Cirrus drivers are half a$$ pilots hoping the plane fly themselves. Or saying all people with red vehicles are trying to compensate for something.
Obviously I say this in jest. I think Cirrus's and their drivers are generally great and I particularly love the look of yours in the display pic.
The Chicago Class B thing is a complex issue and I assure you not all controllers here are anti GA (most if not all would slap Daley and bring Meigs back if we could).
Until recently the configurations at ORD didn't allow for non-participants at the big airport entry. It was the busiest/2nd busiest in the world and looked like the designer of the airport just dropped pixie sticks with runways in all directions. We are now in an east/west flow scenario like ATL. Unlike ATL we don't have RNAV departures that depart on rails that de-conflict with possible Class B corridors over the top. Jets are coming off ORD in all directions with no canned headings or altitudes other than the SID low crossing altitudes.
Without getting into too many complex details, things are changing (including the controller workforce from the old times) that hopefully will help GA feel better about the airspace. I've noticed flying in and around the airspace regularly that it is getting better. Changing a culture takes time. We do now have several active pilots in the ranks. On another forum I'm a part of a 340 guy I didn't know personally responded to a post about the class B VFR clearance I gave him getting above the departures and eventually the arrivals and quickly direct his destination above the bumps.
