IFR Currentcy

R

ry2808

Filing Flight Plan
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Nov 4, 2010
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12
Location
central pa
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Display name:
ryan
IFR Currency

I got my instrument rating 11 months ago and haven't done an approach simulated or actual since I took my test. I have filed ifr flight plans on trips and done approaches within the first month or 2 of having the rating just not simulated or actual. My work schedule and finances wouldn't allow me to keep up with flying for that strech of time. I know the requirements in order to stay instrument current, but may be interpeting them slighty wrong. Am I still able to file a IFR flight plan or fly an approach by myself legally in vfr at this point? I am going flying with an instructor within the next week to do the required instrument work to bring myself current. Until then if i can legally file ifr or shoot an approach in vfr conditions on my own that would work.
 
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File IFR and accept an IFR clearance? No. See 61.57(c).

Fly a practice approach in VMC under VFR? Sure. If you're by yourself you wouldn't be able to log it for currency though.
 
you have to have the 6 approaches, holding, intercepting etc. in the last 6 months in order to be able to file an IFR flight plan, regardless of weather conditions.

then you have another 6 months to get current with a safety pilot

after that you have to do an IPC with a CFII.

*from memory*
 
So in the first 6 months of being instrument current I can do the approaches and hold in vfr/ifr conditions by myself? After that it must be done with a safety pilot simulated?
 
ry2808 said:
So in the first 6 months of being instrument current I can do the approaches and hold in vfr/ifr conditions by myself? After that it must be done with a safety pilot simulated?
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Within 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, the approaches, holding procedures, and tracking/intercepting courses used to meet the requirements of 61.57(c) must be in simulated or actual conditions. If in simulated conditions, a safety pilot is required.

If 6 calendar months go by and you did not satisfy the requirements of 61.57(c) you can satisfy the requirements under simulated conditions with a safety pilot (who can also be a CFI or CFII). If you do not meet the requirements within 12 calendar months, then an IPC with a CFII is required.
 
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thanks, never could make out the difference between the first 6 months and second 6 months now i see it. I understood it had to be done with a safety pilot in actual or simulated in the first 6 months..Now i see that the first 6 months can be done in actual by yourself whereas the second 6 months has to be done with a safety pilot simulated. But you can always legally shoot an approach in vfr conditions by yourself? I know it can't be logged for currency but can it be done legally?
 
ry2808 said:
thanks, never could make out the difference between the first 6 months and second 6 months now i see it. I understood it had to be done with a safety pilot in actual or simulated in the first 6 months..Now i see that the first 6 months can be done in actual by yourself whereas the second 6 months has to be done with a safety pilot simulated. But you can always legally shoot an approach in vfr conditions by yourself? I know it can't be logged for currency but can it be done legally?
Click to expand...

I tune in the ILS any time I fly into a runway with one.
 
ry2808 said:
thanks, never could make out the difference between the first 6 months and second 6 months now i see it. I understood it had to be done with a safety pilot in actual or simulated in the first 6 months..Now i see that the first 6 months can be done in actual by yourself whereas the second 6 months has to be done with a safety pilot simulated. But you can always legally shoot an approach in vfr conditions by yourself? I know it can't be logged for currency but can it be done legally?
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In VFR conditions *AND* flying under visual flight rules.

You can't, as acting PIC, accept an IFR clearance if you are not current...even in VFR conditions.
 
ry2808 said:
thanks, never could make out the difference between the first 6 months and second 6 months now i see it. I understood it had to be done with a safety pilot in actual or simulated in the first 6 months..Now i see that the first 6 months can be done in actual by yourself whereas the second 6 months has to be done with a safety pilot simulated. But you can always legally shoot an approach in vfr conditions by yourself? I know it can't be logged for currency but can it be done legally?
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The 480's way of making you do things is so different from the 430/530 that for months after I bought my plane I was flying lots and lots of approaches by myself just to get familiar with the gadget. I still do it fairly often so I don't lose THAT skill, which is very much part of the IFR workload.
 
I shoot a lot of approaches by myself in VFR conditions to keep from forgetting everything I have learned. I am still looking outside, though. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with that.
 
FlyNE said:
In VFR conditions *AND* flying under visual flight rules.
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Just because nobody's said it:

...AND without a hood or view limiting device on, please.

It should be obvious, but if you're practicing instrument approaches in VMC under VFR conditions without a legal safety pilot, you need to be looking outside for traffic.
 
ry2808 said:
So in the first 6 months of being instrument current I can do the approaches and hold in vfr/ifr conditions by myself? After that it must be done with a safety pilot simulated?
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It's much simpler and straightforward than you're trying to make it:


  • The first 6 months, you are instrument current. You can maintain instrument currency by performing =loggable= approaches, interception and holding.
  • The second 6 months, you are not instrument current. You can regaincurrency by performing =loggable= approaches, interception and holding.
  • After 12 months, you need to have an ipc.

Loggable approaches, interception and holding require that you be in actual or simulated instrument conditions.

Simulated instrument conditions require a view-limiting device and a safety pilot.

If you are instrument current, you can fly as PIC under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) If you're not, you can't.

Is that really so difficult that this is a FAQ? :confused:
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's much simpler and straightforward than you're trying to make it:


  • The first 6 months, you are instrument current. You can maintain instrument currency by performing =loggable= approaches, interception and holding.
  • The second 6 months, you are not instrument current. You can regaincurrency by performing =loggable= approaches, interception and holding.
  • After 12 months, you need to have an ipc.

Loggable approaches, interception and holding require that you be in actual or simulated instrument conditions.

Simulated instrument conditions require a view-limiting device and a safety pilot.

If you are instrument current, you can fly as PIC under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) If you're not, you can't.

Is that really so difficult that this is a FAQ? :confused:
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One additional thing about loggable approaches. The last interpretation that I heard (as best I understand it) is that you must be in actual instrument conditions or using a view-limiting device until AT LEAST the final approach fix (FAF) for it to count toward instrument currency.

Flying a visual approach, or even a precision/non-precision approach, while in VMC and not using a view limiting device does NOT count toward your six approaches for currency.
 
FlyNE said:
One additional thing about loggable approaches. The last interpretation that I heard (as best I understand it) is that you must be in actual instrument conditions or using a view-limiting device until AT LEAST the final approach fix (FAF) for it to count toward instrument currency.
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That is an unofficial opinion that is passed on by some CFIIs that think they speak on the behalf of the FAA. There are some approaches where there is no FAF.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1106/05283V27.PDF

Flying that approach, you could never log it if that opinion were actually an interpretation.

There is no official position. I personally log any approach where I am in actual after the IAF. If simulated I usually fly it "hood on" until I am missed/DH/MDA.
 
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The instrument requirements were changed a bit recently, most notably to add to use of simulator/FTD/ATD as ways of keeping current. There were changes to the IPC requirement too. Those who haven't read them in the last year or two might want to review the changes.

And actually, maybe I'm misreading the rules, but it seems to me that you don't ever NEED to take an IPC to regain currency:

the FAA said:
61.57(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:

(1) Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument rating privileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following...

..snip list of stuff you need to do (edit: and various options on how to do it)...

61.57 (d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the 12 calendar months preceding the month of the flight may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until having passed an instrument proficiency check that consists ...
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Lets say it's been 13 months since I met the requirements and I want to go fly tomorrow. 61.57 (d) says I can't be PIC under IFR. OK. But what if I just go up with a safety pilot today and do the stuff listed in 61.57(c)? Now I have met the requirements in 61.57 (c) within the 12 calendar months proceeding the flight, so 61.57 (d) doesn't apply. I don't think that's what they meant, but that's what it says. I think they messed up how they are defining their 12 month window of currency.
 
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No, it reads like it should.

61.57(d) translation:

A person who doesn't do 6 approaches, holding, intercepting and tracking within the previous 12 months can't be PIC under IFR until having an IPC. You even quoted it with the last 9 words.
 
EdFred said:
No, it reads like it should.

61.57(d) translation:

A person who doesn't do 6 approaches, holding, intercepting and tracking within the previous 12 months can't be PIC under IFR until having an IPC. You even quoted it with the last 9 words.
Click to expand...

I get what they are intending and that's what I'd do, but my point is that if I go up and do the 6 approaches, holding, tracking and intercepting with a safety pilot, then it seems like I am not "a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements", in which case 61.57(d) doesn't restrict me from doing anything.
 
Yes, Shen, you can play jailhouse lawyer and dance on the head of that particular pin. And if you happen to have an incident where your currency becomes an issue, you'll find out very quickly that the overall context of the reg (that you're done self-recreating currency after 12 months of no currency) is what the NTSB will say as they uphold your certificate suspension.

But test your interpretation yourself. Exactly what does the 12 months and the requirement for a IPC mean if you can always regain currency yourself?
 
shenanigans said:
I get what they are intending and that's what I'd do, but my point is that if I go up and do the 6 approaches, holding, tracking and intercepting with a safety pilot, then it seems like I am not "a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements", in which case 61.57(d) doesn't restrict me from doing anything.
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I think the FAA could argue that even if you do that, there was previously a period of time during which you had not done the six approaches, etc., during the previous twelve calendar months, and that the requirement to have an IPC, once having been triggered, does not go away until you have the IPC.
 
Just to be a troublemaker...one does not need to be current nor even hold the rating to file an IFR flight plan. I filed plenty as a student.

Just don't accept a clearance.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Just to be a troublemaker...one does not need to be current nor even hold the rating to file an IFR flight plan. I filed plenty as a student.

Just don't accept a clearance.
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Why is that being a troublemaker? Everyone probably knows that - being irrelevant doens't necessarily make you a troublemaker. ;)
 
Just go find a CFII and do an IPC. Should take about 2 or 3 hours, you'll reset the clock and you might actually learn something new.
 
shenanigans said:
The instrument requirements were changed a bit recently, most notably to add to use of simulator/FTD/ATD as ways of keeping current. There were changes to the IPC requirement too. Those who haven't read them in the last year or two might want to review the changes.

And actually, maybe I'm misreading the rules, but it seems to me that you don't ever NEED to take an IPC to regain currency:



Lets say it's been 13 months since I met the requirements and I want to go fly tomorrow. 61.57 (d) says I can't be PIC under IFR. OK. But what if I just go up with a safety pilot today and do the stuff listed in 61.57(c)? Now I have met the requirements in 61.57 (c) within the 12 calendar months proceeding the flight, so 61.57 (d) doesn't apply. I don't think that's what they meant, but that's what it says. I think they messed up how they are defining their 12 month window of currency.
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I agree; we had this discussion before, too.

And re-reading that thread reminds me that I never did draft and send that letter. I'll do it now.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Why is that being a troublemaker? Everyone probably knows that - being irrelevant doens't necessarily make you a troublemaker. ;)
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Not entirely irrelevant...someone above posted that you must be current to file an IFR flight plan legally, or some such, and I was pointed out that is incorrect.
 
I know this thread is old but let me just say this as a former but still current CFII/MEI and current instructor for a commercial airline. If you have not flown instruments in the last 12 months do yourself a favor (and people that live near the airport) and go fly with a CFI. The proficiency you lose after a year off, is not noticed by you or a fellow "safety pilot" that has similar experience levels as you do. The CFI will see common mistakes and point them out to you as it is his/her responsibilty to correct the problem where a safety pilot will let you continue to make these mistakes and not critique you for fear of offending you.

When we have a pilot that has taken leave for any reason and they are gone for 6 months or more they are given 8 hours of time in a full motion Level D simulator, and a check ride including approaches, holding, missed approaches, and single engine operations before they are allowed to go back to flying revenue flights. Keep in mind that these are professional pilots with several thousand hours, not a new instrument pilot that has not accumulated the level of experience of these pilots.

What is leagal and what is smart are completely different things. Your life is not worth saving the money of avoiding the cost of the CFII. Fly safe and SMART
 
I posted the following on the red board on the same subject.

Often, pilots cheat themselves out of a month when determining IFR currency. Here is an example. Assume you went the IPC route and successfully completed it on Jan 1, 2011. July 31, 2011 would be the last day you were legally current if you had not flown any approaches, etc.. This is because you count back 6 calender months prior to the month in which the flight is to take place. In this case, they are Jun, May, April, March, February, and January. So on August 1st, is the first day you are no longer current. You have a choice of flying the approaches to regain currency up until the day that you have failed to meet the currency requirements for 6 calendar months. After that, you must successfully complete an IPC. August 1st is the first day you did not meet the currency requirements, six calendar months is August, September, October, November, December, and January. February 1st, 2012 is the first day that you have not met the currency requirement for 6 calendar months and from that date, the only way to regain currency is by successfully completing an IPC.
 
John Collins said:
I posted the following on the red board on the same subject.

Often, pilots cheat themselves out of a month when determining IFR currency. Here is an example. Assume you went the IPC route and successfully completed it on Jan 1, 2011. July 31, 2011 would be the last day you were legally current if you had not flown any approaches, etc.. This is because you count back 6 calender months prior to the month in which the flight is to take place. In this case, they are Jun, May, April, March, February, and January. So on August 1st, is the first day you are no longer current. You have a choice of flying the approaches to regain currency up until the day that you have failed to meet the currency requirements for 6 calendar months. After that, you must successfully complete an IPC. August 1st is the first day you did not meet the currency requirements, six calendar months is August, September, October, November, December, and January. February 1st, 2012 is the first day that you have not met the currency requirement for 6 calendar months and from that date, the only way to regain currency is by successfully completing an IPC.
Click to expand...

Hmm... good catch, I hadn't thought of that. I need to go alter my logbook pro currency filters and change them from seven months to six.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Received a letter of acknowledgement of receipt of my inquiry today, advising that I should receive a response by October 11th, 2011, based on their current backlog of 14 CFR interpretation requests.
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Hey TW, did you ever get a response from the FAA?
 
pericynthion said:
Hey TW, did you ever get a response from the FAA?
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Not yet... way past the October estimate, too. I'll ping them for disposition.

EDIT: Called their office, they gave me the direct number for the Regulations dept that would handle the letter. Got their VM and left a request for an update.
 
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Just got this on another list:

On approximately 16 Dec 2011 a change to 61.57(d) was published. If you fail to maintain your instrument currency you no longer have six additional months to regain that by the use of a safety pilot etc...You must now receive an IPC from an examiner, authorized instructor or inspector. Check it out and let everyone you know. I don't think this was advertised at all by either the FAA or AOPA etc...

The issue is the previous 61.57(d) stated

d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the 12 calendar months preceding the month of the flight may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until having passed an instrument proficiency check that consists of the areas of operation and instrument tasks required in the instrument rating practical test standards.

The New 61.57 (d) states

(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who has failed to meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) for more than six calendar months may reestablish instrument currency only by completing an instrument proficiency check.
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Edit: I don't agree with his interpretation. To me this says if you haven't been 61.57(c) CURRENT for six months you need an IPC. That means you can be do the six approaches and holds on 1 january. You're no longer current on 1 August, but until next January you will have been current within the past six months. So on 1 Feb of next year you need an IPC.

The current reg also addresses maintaining currency with an airplane and a sim and an ATD. If you use an ATD, you've got to have done 6 approaches in the ATD as well as do approaches in the airplane. I think this is new.
 
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um the way i read that it says that if you aren't instrument current for 6 months you need an IPC. is that a change?
 
The New 61.57 (d) states

(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who has failed to meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) for more than six calendar months may reestablish instrument currency only by completing an instrument proficiency check.
Click to expand...

tonycondon said:
um the way i read that it says that if you aren't instrument current for 6 months you need an IPC. is that a change?
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That's not how I read the new December wording, Tony. It says that a person who has failed to meet the instrument experience requirements for more than six months needs an IPC. During the first six months, I DO meet the requirements. If another six months pass ("more than six months") and I haven't re-satisfied 6HIT requirements, then I need an IPC.
 
troy, i read it the same way you do. isn't that the same as the old rule (just a new wording?)
 
TangoWhiskey said:
That's not how I read the new December wording, Tony. It says that a person who has failed to meet the instrument experience requirements for more than six months needs an IPC. During the first six months, I DO meet the requirements. If another six months pass ("more than six months") and I haven't re-satisfied 6HIT requirements, then I need an IPC.
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I still see this as "back to the old way".

You're current for seven months (see earlier post) from the time you last meet the 61.57.c requirements.
Then you're not current, and for the next six months, you can get current with a safety pilot.
Then you can only get current with an IPC.
 
tonycondon said:
troy, i read it the same way you do. isn't that the same as the old rule (just a new wording?)
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Yup, agreed! Sounds like they changed it to fix the ambiguity that was present in the "old" new rewording, which made it sound like one could get current at any time just by going out and shooting approaches again (6HIT), which prompted my letter to them.

Sorry, Tony, I thought you were agreeing with the quoted part in Tim's post. I see now what you're saying.
 
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tonycondon said:
troy, i read it the same way you do. isn't that the same as the old rule (just a new wording?)
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Yes, it is, as was explained by the FAA in the preamble to the Final Rule in the Federal Register, which apparently the person who started this flap didn't read.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, it is, as was explained by the FAA in the preamble to the Final Rule in the Federal Register, which apparently the person who started this flap didn't read.
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Up thru post 26, they were written back in June 2011, which is before the December update, so those posts were commenting on the old rule.
 
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