IFR Currency

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Jason608

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jason608
For the three day landings, I always used the first log book entry as the start date for currency. For IFR currency, the 6 approaches at least, what date do you use? For example, earned the rating on July 1st, if I do 6 approaches today July 26, am I current for another 6 months past December? Or more likely, I do 5 approaches next month and one last approach on December 31st, am I current for 6 months past December or the start of the first approach?

"
(1)Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument ratingprivileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following -"
 
I think where you might be confused is months vs days. Landing currency is a 90 day period, so you must use a date. Instrument currency uses months. All approaches, holds tracking completed in a month is a month. The sactual date is irrelevant. Within the six month period, you need the required experiance elements. Dec 31, is you last day of instrument currency unless you have logged the minimum experiance during that period.

So if you do 2 approaches/ holds in August, 2 in Sept, and 2 in October, on Jan 31, you are out of currency. Do all 6 in December, you are good until May 31.
 
Clip4 said:
Do all 6 in December, you are good until May 31.
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Thanks, that's what I will do then. I will not see IMC anytime soon, so for this year at least, I will combine IFR currency with my Complex and Commercial training in December.
 
Took me about 3 or so hours to do my 6 HITS last time I renewed the currency. That's a long ride...I'd rather space out the approaches over a couple weeks (within the same month). I'm at the point right now though that I'll need an IPC to get current again, might combine that with my BFR next April.
 
IFR currency, like airplane annuals, uses 'calendar months'. In FAR 61.57:
(c)Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in commandunder IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:

(1)Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument rating privileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following -

(i) Six instrument approaches.

(ii) Holding procedures and tasks.

(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigational electronic systems.
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Also in 61.57, Landing currency uses days:

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and...
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The dictionary definition of a 'calendar month' is:

The period of duration from the first date of one month to the last date of the same month, and thus can be 28, 29 during a leap year, 30 or 31 days long. For example, the duration from January 1st to January 31th.
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Suppose you're out of landing currency, so on January 2, 2017 you do your three takeoffs and landings. You are landing current through April 2, 2017.

Suppose you've flown no IFR at all for over a year, so you take an IPC on January 2, 2017. You are now IFR current until June 30, 2017.

Using an electronic logbook really helps in keeping track of these things.
 
JimNtexas said:
Using an electronic logbook really helps in keeping track of these things.
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I don't use an electronic log book yet, but knowing currency at a touch of a button or an alert is a selling point for me.
 
Clip4 said:
...So if you do 2 approaches/ holds in August, 2 in Sept, and 2 in October, on Jan 31, you are out of currency....
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On Jan. 31st, you are still current until midnight.

[Correction: On the last day of February, you are still current through midnight.]
 
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I just do an instrument proficiency check every six months, even if I meet currency requirements, which so far, I always have. I figure it's easier than always worrying about currency, it's good review, and it only costs a couple hundred bucks after all is said and done.
 
Clip4 said:
...So if you do 2 approaches/ holds in August, 2 in Sept, and 2 in October, on Jan 31, you are out of currency...
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Clip4 said:
If you are looking forward, yes you have til midnight, looking back, you were done on the 31st.
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Actually, we both got it wrong. Under the scenario you posted above, you're current through midnight on the last day of February. At anytime during February, the six preceding calendar months are January, December, November, October, September, and August, so approaches, etc. performed within that time frame all count. The reason is that the reg, as quoted in post #1, says "Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight..."
 
"The reason is that the reg, as quoted in post #1, says "Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight...""

You're right! I overlooked that.
 
The thing about the six approaches being inadequate is more and more true now, since (if available in your aircraft), you'll want to do all the standard approaches, then GPS approaches, then maybe as much of that all over again, coupled.

12 a year would never be enough for me to feel like I had a complete grasp of all possible approaches, especially in the Toga or Cirrus.

I haven't done a PP NDB approach in years. I miss it.
 
Palmpilot said:
Actually, we both got it wrong. Under the scenario you posted above, you're current through midnight on the last day of February. At anytime during February, the six preceding calendar months are January, December, November, October, September, and August, so approaches, etc. performed within that time frame all count. The reason is that the reg, as quoted in post #1, says "Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight..."
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This.

The simplest way I've found to think of it, is to forget the day part of the date.When calculating instrument currency, I never think in terms of, "I logged approaches on August 4 and August12," but rather, "I logged two approaches in August." They count for my currency for flights through February, where I also don't think in terms of "February 28 unless it's a leap year, in which case February 29', just "through February."
 
Palmpilot said:
Actually, we both got it wrong. Under the scenario you posted above, you're current through midnight on the last day of February. At anytime during February, the six preceding calendar months are January, December, November, October, September, and August, so approaches, etc. performed within that time frame all count. The reason is that the reg, as quoted in post #1, says "Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight..."
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Good catch. I was wondering whether my brain had forgotten how to do arithmetic, or someone was going to point that out before I did.

For currency any time this month, you would count approaches going all the way back to january 1.
 
spiderweb said:
The thing about the six approaches being inadequate is more and more true now, since (if available in your aircraft), you'll want to do all the standard approaches, then GPS approaches, then maybe as much of that all over again, coupled.
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I disagree with that...in my mind, there are basically three types of approaches:

Precision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to an MDA

If you can fly these three types of approaches and navigate with all of the equipment you have available, any approach should be flyable.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I disagree with that...in my mind, there are basically three types of approaches:

Precision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to an MDA

If you can fly these three types of approaches and navigate with all of the equipment you have available, any approach should be flyable.
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I think he's seeing knowing how to use the equipment specific to the approach as a reason for having a separate need for proficiency. Even then, though, I think one can go overboard and I tend to agree with you. Of course, legal "currency" only requires flying the same autopilot-coupled approach six times.
 
I wonder if it should be a requirement for the six approaches to be hand flown.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wonder if it should be a requirement for the six approaches to be hand flown.
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Just as much as there "should be" a requirement to fly them coupled to ensure equipment proficiency. In my world-view, that means, "no."

As with the many, many, many FAA "currency" requirements which establish bare minimums (are you really capable of taking the family on a night cross country by doing three landings and your home base for a half hour before the flight when you last night flight was 12 years ago?), I'm more than satisfied leaving "proficiency" to the pilot and not adding regulations just because it sounds like a good idea to someone.
 
asicer said:
What if it is 11:58pm and you are on an approach that starts in one time zone but ends in another?
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And what if that time zone is not a legal one, but is a practical one? For example, Wendover, Nevada was (until 1999) legally on Pacific Time, but in practice always followed Mountain time since it is right on the Utah border. Jackpot, Nevada is on the Idaho border and legally Pacific time, but the clocks are all on Mountain Time (and Jackpot has an airport).

Wiki says " The Nevada Department of Transportation and Federal Aviation Administration recognize this local unofficial observance."

Whatever that means.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I disagree with that...in my mind, there are basically three types of approaches:

Precision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to a DA
Nonprecision approaches to an MDA

If you can fly these three types of approaches and navigate with all of the equipment you have available, any approach should be flyable.
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Possibly. But what are you flying?

I learned with just a six-pack. Two of each of the above would be adequate in that bird.

With something like a Cessna 421, I think you'd be happier AT LEAST doing all of that, plus coupled.

Also, what about PP?

Remember, you are categorizing approaches into type--which is fine--but it may not make as much sense as practicing those approaches which are more challenging, more often. As in the example I mention above, being able to fly a PP NDB approach was something that took a lot more than flying a standard ILS.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wonder if it should be a requirement for the six approaches to be hand flown.
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A pilot who can't manage his autopilot is just as inept as one who can't hand fly in my book. I've flown airplanes where the autopilot was the intended backup for certain instrument failures.
 
spiderweb said:
Possibly. But what are you flying?
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Single engine steam gauges, multi engine steam gauges and glass, jet steam gauges and glass.

I learned with just a six-pack. Two of each of the above would be adequate in that bird.

With something like a Cessna 421, I think you'd be happier AT LEAST doing all of that, plus coupled.

Also, what about PP?
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Partial panel is partial panel. If you're proficient at flying partial panel and are proficient at flying approaches, there should be no reason you can't fly a partial panel approach.

Remember, you are categorizing approaches into type--which is fine--but it may not make as much sense as practicing those approaches which are more challenging, more often. As in the example I mention above, being able to fly a PP NDB approach was something that took a lot more than flying a standard ILS.
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keep in mind that flying time other than approaches can be used to practice NDB navigation, partial panel flying, etc....that's what "intercepting and tracking" are all about. It's when you lock yourself into ONLY doing that stuff when you are getting instrument approach proficiency that proficiency requires lots of extra approaches.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Partial panel is partial panel. If you're proficient at flying partial panel and are proficient at flying approaches, there should be no reason you can't fly a partial panel approach.
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I think you are agreeing with me, then, that part of the "minimum six" should therefore include PP approaches, if one is NOT proficient in them.

MauleSkinner said:
keep in mind that flying time other than approaches can be used to practice NDB navigation, partial panel flying, etc....that's what "intercepting and tracking" are all about. It's when you lock yourself into ONLY doing that stuff when you are getting instrument approach proficiency that proficiency requires lots of extra approaches.
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Couldn't agree more.

I guess my point is this: Completing "minimum six" approaches indicates very little as to how proficient or safe a pilot is. One might be best served by first assessing where the rust is, and treat those areas most.
 
spiderweb said:
I think you are agreeing with me, then, that part of the "minimum six" should therefore include PP approaches, if one is NOT proficient in them.
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If you're not proficient in PP approaches, is it because you're not proficient partial panel or because you're not proficient flying approaches?
I guess my point is this: Completing "minimum six" approaches indicates very little as to how proficient or safe a pilot is. One might be best served by first assessing where the rust is, and treat those areas most.
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Agreed...but PP approaches may not be the cure for a lack of general PP proficiency.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If you're not proficient in PP approaches, is it because you're not proficient partial panel or because you're not proficient flying approaches?

Agreed...but PP approaches may not be the cure for a lack of general PP proficiency.
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Practicing helps.

I'm also a big proponent of using FTDs.
 
Always thought that if you had to keep track of your instrument currency you were not flying enough to maintain PROFICIENCY! ;)
 
Does a holding pattern in lieu of a procedure turn count as a hold?
 
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