IFR Approach Debate

Sluggo63 said:
What concerned me the most was this statement to the pilot he was flying with:
"He simply stated, '...cleared for the approach.' Therefore, we can fly any heading or altitude which will intercept the localizer and glide slope and fly the approach effectively and safely."​

I don't agree with that.
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Me neither, taken literally. I took it colloquially.
 
Since his link to the chart will probably expire, I'm attaching the pdf.
 

Attachments

Sluggo63 said:
Since in his narrative, he said NY said "UE4388 cleared for..." I was assuming that was United Express flight 4388 and he was probably in an RJ of some sort, not a Cardinal
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I couldn't find a flight with that number to Newark, but I did find GoJet Flight 4388 from Newark in a CRJ7, ending in Burlington (BTV). Checking flights from BTV to EWR, I found GoJet Flight 4393, also in a CRJ7, and the times look right for it to be the same plane flying in the opposite direction. Based on the arrival time, I found the LiveATC recording. Their initial check in with NY Approach is a little after the eight minute mark.

https://archive.liveatc.net/kewr/KEWR2-NY-App-125500-Sep-21-2021-1700Z.mp3

According to Skyvector, AGNSS is right over KTEB, and for Tuesday, September 21st, FlightAware shows a turn starting about three miles before that location. (Whether that was too soon or not for a CRJ to turn is outside my level of knowledge.)

[Edit: This may not be the correct flight. As Sluggo63 pointed out below, this flight received a vector to final.]

Flight 4393.png

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GJS4393/history/20210921/1645Z/KBTV/KEWR
 
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dtuuri said:
Amazing. Wonder how that compares to the others...
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That's some great sleuthing. I have up when I saw 4388 didn't go to EWR.

I just listened to the recording, and I don't think that's them though. That 4393 ended up getting a vector to intercept the final.
 
Sluggo63 said:
That's some great sleuthing. I have up when I saw 4388 didn't go to EWR.

I just listened to the recording, and I don't think that's them though. That 4393 ended up getting a vector to intercept the final.
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Yeah, you're right. It's at about the 16:33 mark.

It would have been great sleuthing if it had been correct!
 
Ahhh. Yeah I'm stumped. I looked at a bunch of flights on the 21st.
 
At this point, the conversation would best be served by the OP posting further details such as date, time, flight#, etc., so the actual Flightware track and LiveATC audio can be found and analyzed in true Monday-morning quarterback style. I assume there was no violation or even a hint of that, so maybe the OP will do that.
 
pburger said:
At this point, the conversation would best be served by the OP posting further details such as date, time, flight#, etc., so the actual Flightware track and LiveATC audio can be found and analyzed in true Monday-morning quarterback style. I assume there was no violation or even a hint of that, so maybe the OP will do that.
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If nothing else I would like to know whether the controller issued the proper clearance. If he/she failed to state "Cross AGNSS at (or above) 3,000..." then the lessons learned by TWA 514 are coming unwound (such as the close call at Medford and the cargo flight at Dillingham, AK.)
 
drgwentzel said:
IFR Flyers,

...
On the en-route structure we were cleared direct AGNSS and told to descend to 3000'. The GPS showed that we were 35 miles from this fix.

The direct track to AGNSS put us on a 90 degree intercept angle to the ILS approach course. At about 5 miles before to AGNSS ATC stated, "UE4388 cleared for the ILS 22R approach."
.....
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I think ATC has to vector you in 3 miles before the FAF. Also, we can't know if they are vectoring us for traffic. I think your copilot was right
 
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