IFR and Oshkosh

MyassisDragon

MyassisDragon

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
585
Location
Michigan
Display Name
Display name:
Mr Fred
This will be my firs trip to oskosh and I have been studying the notam but have a few questions regarding my Route that some of you may be able to help point me in the right direction. or maybe I am over thinking it.
Here is my basic route breifing.

Depart KBIV (Holland) on Sunday
Arrive KOSH VFR from the south (FISK)
Depart KOSH VFR (or IFR :dunno:) Tuesday

When going over the lake and departing from KBIV (holland) In the past I have flown IFR around 9000-11000 ft and picked up my clearance from KMKG. I still want the altitude and doesnt look promising for VFR on sunday.

So here is my dilemma (or confirmation of my sanity)
ARRIVAL = KBIV to KOSH file to another field or NAV and cancel IFR with MKE once I have crossed the lake and proceed VFR north to FISK?

DEPARTURE = I would also like to get as high as I can and not worry about clouds. So Would I Get an IFR reservation for departure and clearance on the ground ? Since MKE wont accept any airborne clearances my next facility is KMKG on the way home, but this is within 40 miles so I am already in the middle of lake Michigan before I make contact.

I just dont want to be that tart who goobers up the whole flow at OSH when its VFR and I request an IFR departure.
 
You have to have a slot reserved for IFR for entry into OSH. I stay at Appleton and file last minute foe Green Bay,and just outside Appleton ask for clearance to Appleton. Don't think it will work for OSH.
 
Lots of 'what ifs' this far out. I'd have a plan & a few backup plans.

Getting in to an outlying airport if wx dictates is always an option. Have some faith, I'm going for the VFR arrival over Fiske on Monday.
 
MyassisDragon said:
This will be my firs trip to oskosh and I have been studying the notam but have a few questions regarding my Route that some of you may be able to help point me in the right direction. or maybe I am over thinking it.
Here is my basic route breifing.

Depart KBIV (Holland) on Sunday
Arrive KOSH VFR from the south (FISK)
Depart KOSH VFR (or IFR :dunno:) Tuesday

When going over the lake and departing from KBIV (holland) In the past I have flown IFR around 9000-11000 ft and picked up my clearance from KMKG. I still want the altitude and doesnt look promising for VFR on sunday.

So here is my dilemma (or confirmation of my sanity)
ARRIVAL = KBIV to KOSH file to another field or NAV and cancel IFR with MKE once I have crossed the lake and proceed VFR north to FISK?

DEPARTURE = I would also like to get as high as I can and not worry about clouds. So Would I Get an IFR reservation for departure and clearance on the ground ? Since MKE wont accept any airborne clearances my next facility is KMKG on the way home, but this is within 40 miles so I am already in the middle of lake Michigan before I make contact.

I just dont want to be that tart who goobers up the whole flow at OSH when its VFR and I request an IFR departure.
Click to expand...

Just read my post and it was a little rambling so I want to clear it up by saying...I only want my lake Michigan crossing IFR for altitude regardless of clouds and to have ATC contact.
 
MyassisDragon said:
Just read my post and it was a little rambling so I want to clear it up by saying...I only want my lake Michigan crossing IFR for altitude regardless of clouds and to have ATC contact.
Click to expand...

You don't need to be IFR for that altitude do you? Just get flight following over the lake?
 
MichiPilot said:
You don't need to be IFR for that altitude do you? Just get flight following over the lake?
Click to expand...

Thats fine for plan "A" but if there are clouds (looking like it) then plan "B" is to stay IFR and maintain altitude over 80 NM of water.
 
I didn't check where you'll be crossing, but you need to be up at least near MKE. Any attempts to cross south of there will result in you being vectored up the middle of the lake to abeam MKE anyhow.

If you don't have a reservation, MKE will be urging you to cancel even before you hit the Wisconsin shoreline. I told them no **#@$# way I was canceling IFR until they got me over land.

I've actually gone into OSH IFR a couple of years ago, but it was two days prior to the NOTAM rules being on. You could almost hear the sigh from the MKE approach controllers voice when he realized the season had started.
 
MyassisDragon said:
When going over the lake and departing from KBIV (holland) In the past I have flown IFR around 9000-11000 ft and picked up my clearance from KMKG. I still want the altitude and doesnt look promising for VFR on sunday.

So here is my dilemma (or confirmation of my sanity)
ARRIVAL = KBIV to KOSH file to another field or NAV and cancel IFR with MKE once I have crossed the lake and proceed VFR north to FISK?

DEPARTURE = I would also like to get as high as I can and not worry about clouds. So Would I Get an IFR reservation for departure and clearance on the ground ? Since MKE wont accept any airborne clearances my next facility is KMKG on the way home, but this is within 40 miles so I am already in the middle of lake Michigan before I make contact.
Click to expand...

I've filed to KUNU and cancelled to proceed onto the Fisk arrival in the past... Works just fine and they're happy to have you cancel.

On the departure, you should try to get an IFR reservation and pick up your clearance on the ground. If unable, just fly VFR to a nearby field and file from there, again picking up your clearance on the ground.
 
flyingron said:
I didn't check where you'll be crossing, but you need to be up at least near MKE. Any attempts to cross south of there will result in you being vectored up the middle of the lake to abeam MKE anyhow.



If you don't have a reservation, MKE will be urging you to cancel even before you hit the Wisconsin shoreline. I told them no **#@$# way I was canceling IFR until they got me over land.



I've actually gone into OSH IFR a couple of years ago, but it was two days prior to the NOTAM rules being on. You could almost hear the sigh from the MKE approach controllers voice when he realized the season had started.
Click to expand...


Glad we are getting our $450k worth for Oshkosh ATC services.....
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've filed to KUNU and cancelled to proceed onto the Fisk arrival in the past... Works just fine and they're happy to have you cancel.

On the departure, you should try to get an IFR reservation and pick up your clearance on the ground. If unable, just fly VFR to a nearby field and file from there, again picking up your clearance on the ground.
Click to expand...

Thanks this is what I was thinking and wanted confirmation.

ARRIVAL = IFR to local field then cancel go VFR (wont leave home if osh is IFR)

DEPARTURE = When leaving, try to get reservation if its IFR over the lake. If I cant then just fly VFR to Timmerman KMWC and file a regular IFR plan.

The only other question I have is on the NOTAM It states that "MKE APP will not provide traffic advisories north and within 70nm of KOSH". I assume this still means I can get FF if I choose to just go VFR over the lake? They just wont tell me about traffic but will listen to me scream if my engine stops:yikes:
 
MyassisDragon said:
The only other question I have is on the NOTAM It states that "MKE APP will not provide traffic advisories north and within 70nm of KOSH". I assume this still means I can get FF if I choose to just go VFR over the lake? They just wont tell me about traffic but will listen to me scream if my engine stops:yikes:
Click to expand...

You won't get them from Milwaukee approach. Where would you be crossing the lake?
 
roncachamp said:
You won't get them from Milwaukee approach. Where would you be crossing the lake?
Click to expand...

Maybe a north east departure is best and go through green bay approach. It keeps me away from arrival traffic south of OSH and looks like I can get airborne clearance from KGRB.
 
MyassisDragon said:
Maybe a north east departure is best and go through green bay approach. It keeps me away from arrival traffic south of OSH and looks like I can get airborne clearance from KGRB.
Click to expand...

You can get flight following and airborne clearances from Green Bay approach.
 
roncachamp said:
You can get flight following and airborne clearances from Green Bay approach.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. If you go KOSH MTW MBL KBIV you'll not only minimize your over-water time, you'll be talking to Green Bay Approach and then Minneapolis Center and won't have to worry about whether MKE will give you VFR FF (they probably won't).

But, it sounds like your IFR departure plans (KOSH if reservation available, KMWC otherwise) will work well. KMWC is my home field.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That's exactly what I was going to suggest. If you go KOSH MTW MBL KBIV you'll not only minimize your over-water time, you'll be talking to Green Bay Approach and then Minneapolis Center and won't have to worry about whether MKE will give you VFR FF (they probably won't).
Click to expand...

MKE definitely won't give you VFR FF during AirVenture. Doesn't matter how busy they are.

If you do go KOSH MTW MBL KBIV with intent to pick up an IFR clearance while airborne make sure you file MTW MBL KBIV and call Green Bay approach on 120.2 when near MTW.
 
roncachamp said:
If you do go KOSH MTW MBL KBIV with intent to pick up an IFR clearance while airborne make sure you file MTW MBL KBIV and call Green Bay approach on 120.2 when near MTW.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was figuring after the suggestion to head north before heading SE over the lake.

The only thing still in question is the notam requests filing KCLI MTW MKG for SE bound aircraft when picking up IFR clearance from green bay. I figured This was so my clearance would automatically pop up on green bay and would not have to go all the way to KCLI. Will this still be true if I start with MTW? They both look to be the same distance. Just not sure why they start the rout with KCLI for south east bound aircraft.

It also states : make green bay IFR requests on 126.3? which matches nothing on their std AFD, or 120.2?
 
Last edited:
MyassisDragon said:
This is exactly what I was figuring after the suggestion to head north before heading SE over the lake.

The only thing still in question is the notam requests filing KCLI MTW MKG for SE bound aircraft when picking up IFR clearance from green bay. I figured This was so my clearance would automatically pop up on green bay and would not have to go all the way to KCLI. Will this still be true if I start with MTW? They both look to be the same distance. Just not sure why they start the rout with KCLI for south east bound aircraft.

It also states : make green bay IFR requests on 126.3? which matches nothing on their std AFD, or 120.2?
Click to expand...

The 126.3 RTR is at ATW, that frequency is used by the west satellite position which handles KCLI. The 120.2 RTR is at MTW and is one of the frequencies used by the east satellite position, which handles KMTW. File MTW as the departure point, call on 120.2 when you're east of CLINS and you'll be good to go. I've attached the GRB TRACON Position Display Map which shows GRB airspace, although it does not show internal position boundaries.
 

Attachments

  • PDM bitmap.bmp
    1.5 MB · Views: 14
roncachamp said:
The 126.3 RTR is at ATW, that frequency is used by the west satellite position which handles KCLI. The 120.2 RTR is at MTW and is one of the frequencies used by the east satellite position, which handles KMTW. File MTW as the departure point, call on 120.2 when you're east of CLINS and you'll be good to go. I've attached the GRB TRACON Position Display Map which shows GRB airspace, although it does not show internal position boundaries.
Click to expand...

Very helpful:yes:, thank you.
 
dans2992 said:
Glad we are getting our $450k worth for Oshkosh ATC services.....
Click to expand...

Everyone wants IFR separation and everyone wants to go direct. When it's that busy, you can't have both. It doesn't matter how many controllers are paid for, there is still only so much airspace, and for MKE approach, Lake Michigan underlies half of it.

One other suggestion further south: All the arrival routes into ORD cross the shoreline at 12,000 and below, so 12,500 or higher is much better than 10,500 if you're concerned with wake turbulence from heavies cruising along at 300 knots at 11,000 feet. The controllers will try to miss you, but there's IFR traffic out there too that have to be missed, so you may not have more than 500 foot separation from IFR traffic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top