If you were 50lbs, where would you be hiding in a C150?

Pedals2Paddles

Pedals2Paddles

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Pedals2Paddles
We had the W&B redone. The empty weight is 50lbs higher than it should be. Lets assume the scale isn't wrong. So we're trying to figure out where the 50lb anvil is hiding in this little thing.

Examining all the logs, we found that the plane got a repaint without stripping the old paint. Not accounted for in the W&B. We're guessing that would be 15-20lbs? So that would account for that much of it. That still leaves 25-30lbs unaccounted for.

We think the carpet and seats are not stock, also not accounted for in the W&B. We're planning to remove and weigh them. But how much more than normal could the carpet and seats weigh?? 25-30lbs more than a stock carpet and seat??

What else could there be? Weight gremlins??
 
Pull up some panels to the belly and see how much gummed up 5606 is in there mixed with dirt, then open up the wings and tail and see how many thousand mud dobber nests it has in them.
 
You probably have my old plane. There is about 5 kilos of coke in each wing. Keep it I'm done with that stuff. Never liked getting high just liked the way it smelled.:lol:
 
ClimbnSink said:
You probably have my old plane. There is about 5 kilos of coke in each wing. Keep it I'm done with that stuff. Never liked getting high just liked the way it smelled.:lol:
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Reminds me of watching auto auctions and some of the wrecked vehicles getting bid up to prices that were WAY out of sensible range for what they were. A fellow buyer would lean over and say, "See the guy with the hat bidding on that car? I betcha that's the drug dealer and he knows where all the marijuana and cocaine is stashed in the car that he's trying to buy back. No other reason for it to reach 2-2.5x the normal bid."
 
ClimbnSink said:
You probably have my old plane. There is about 5 kilos of coke in each wing. Keep it I'm done with that stuff. Never liked getting high just liked the way it smelled.:lol:
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Lol. When I was buying my first plane, a Seneca II came up at the DEA auction. At that time I could buy a nice mid time one for $75k. This one had no logs, eroded props from flying off the desert, almost no compression when you pulled the props through, and only had a pilot's seat in it. My boss said "Pick it up for $20k, we'll put it together and you'll have a $40k twin time builder." The thing sold at $72k:eek: I turned to him and said, "Someone must know where the coke is still stashed."
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
We had the W&B redone. The empty weight is 50lbs higher than it should be. Lets assume the scale isn't wrong. So we're trying to figure out where the 50lb anvil is hiding in this little thing.

Examining all the logs, we found that the plane got a repaint without stripping the old paint. Not accounted for in the W&B. We're guessing that would be 15-20lbs? So that would account for that much of it. That still leaves 25-30lbs unaccounted for.

We think the carpet and seats are not stock, also not accounted for in the W&B. We're planning to remove and weigh them. But how much more than normal could the carpet and seats weigh?? 25-30lbs more than a stock carpet and seat??

What else could there be? Weight gremlins??
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Maybe Chinese carpet and seats....have it weighed....

They are putting lead into crayons......so your seats and carpets might might not surprise you if previous owners went for the cheap.

Explore every option....

But seriously....could be anything or a number of things....you are now Indiana Jones searching for the lost treasure...;)
 
Yeah, this is a common problem. 'Empty weight' used to mean just that. Weight of the plane, and installed components. I don't know which way you weighed it this time, but now I think you are supposed to weigh it with the crankcase filled, and unusable fuel on board. Some do it this way, some don't.

When I weighed my plane last time, I took everything out that wasn't nailed down. That includes the carpet pads in the footwells. No oil, tanks completely dry, no charts, or POH I even took the extinguisher out. That way, I know what the dry weight is.

If you did it this way and are still 50Lbs over what it was last time, I would venture the two scales aren't calibrated. Maybe the prev was showing 25 light, and your's is showing 25 heavy. Ergo - 50 pound swing. not accounting for the new paint. There will be plenty of goo in the belly of the beast as well.
 
It was weighed with all the crap removed from the cockpit, and fuel drained. Unusable fuel and fluids still onboard. That was accounted for in this.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
It was weighed with all the crap removed from the cockpit, and fuel drained. Unusable fuel and fluids still onboard. That was accounted for in this.
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Scales calibrated? How many times did you weigh it? We weigh three times and rotate load cells each time but easy to when weighing the airplane on jacks and average the readings to get the final numbers used to calculate it.

You might be SOL.
 
The scales were just calibrated. And two other planes have since been on them, with no abnormalities.
 
If there are 5 kilos of coke in this thing, I'll give you all a cut of the sales.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
The scales were just calibrated. And two other planes have since been on them, with no abnormalities.
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Platform roll-on type scales?

I got a significant shift between "topped fuel tanks" and roll on platform scales that were out of cal vs calibrated jackpoint loadcells with dry tanks like #75 difference.

I know roll-on is acceptable but doubt its as accurate as jackpoint. Some shops won't roll-on these type even tho that's how they are designed. Those shops use wing jacks and set the airplane onto the platforms.
 
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Monster re-tread tires on? Wheel pants accumulate significant grime. Swapping flooded lead acid batteries out for the RG type. Oil filter adapter holds around another quart of oil.
 
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Pedals2Paddles said:
If there are 5 kilos of coke in this thing, I'll give you all a cut of the sales.
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Sheet if you find 5 kilos of coke in it....sell the plane and the coke...move up to a 172 that won't give you a WB headache!!!!:rofl:
 
Henning said:
Pull up some panels to the belly and see how much gummed up 5606 is in there mixed with dirt, then open up the wings and tail and see how many thousand mud dobber nests it has in them.
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We're going to be poking around and will look for this junk.

Jimmy cooper said:
Has it been repainted? Ever? Could be the paint. Paint is heavy.
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Yep.
Pedals2Paddles said:
Examining all the logs, we found that the plane got a repaint without stripping the old paint. Not accounted for in the W&B. We're guessing that would be 15-20lbs? So that would account for that much of it. That still leaves 25-30lbs unaccounted for.
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Pedals2Paddles said:
We had the W&B redone. The empty weight is 50lbs higher than it should be...
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More likely what you "think" the empty weight was (recorded by the manufacturer) is 50 lbs less than what it actually was.
 
I would think the paint is heavier than you think,also have the avionics been updated,if they where was the old wiring removed.also check the belly .
 
Avionics changes were actually accounted for in the W&B. There may be some extra wire, but based on what changed, nothing excessive.

Having a look inside the belly is on our agenda soon.
 
Henning said:
That would reduce weight, not increase it I believe. Corrosion is the loss of material.
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Nope, corrosion is not the loss of metal. It is the oxidation of metal. It leads to a weaker material.

Al + 3H2O → Al(OH)3 + 3H2 ↑

So where there was Aluminum there is now Aluminum oxide.

Jim
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Nope, corrosion is not the loss of metal. It is the oxidation of metal. It leads to a weaker material.

Al + 3H2O → Al(OH)3 + 3H2 ↑

So where there was Aluminum there is now Aluminum oxide.

Jim
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Hmmm, Then that would be a hell of a lot of corrosion to add 50 lbs of oxygen!:eek:
 
Again, what are you basing this on? What convinces you that the airplane is 50 lbs heavier than what it is "supposed" to be? Cessna's recorded empty weight is based on averages of random samples. Unless someone has weighed the aircraft after it came off the factory floor it most likely has never been on a set of scales before.
 
I don't believe it was ever weighed either. 50lbs is a huge difference though.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
:) I agree!!!
But the plane could have ticks & fleas... (More than one cause for the weight issue.)
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Yep, or mud dobbers.... After a few years doing maint and rebuilding wrecks, the two biggies I found were bellies full of dirt/dust soaked into hydraulic fluid and massive colonies of mud dobber nests.
 
I bet you are right. Those things get into the dardest places... We once had a car that would not run for more than a couple of seconds. The tailpipe was plugged/restricted by a mud dobbers nest. I imagine they could add 50 pounds given enough years...
 
The good thing about having your plane weighed is that you now know what the empty weight is.

The bad news is... you now know exactly what the empty weight is. :D
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I don't believe it was ever weighed either. 50lbs is a huge difference though.
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It may come as a shock but in the not so distant past GA aircraft manufacturers were notorious for inflating their published performance data for competitive reasons and that included the empty weight. If your competitor is out right lying you have the choice of throwing a public hissy fit or bending the truth yourself. After all, it's all relative right?

Another example is that you might own say a 15 year old air compressor with a 5 HP electric motor. Buy one today and the exact same sized motor has a 2 HP sticker on it. Whip out your handy calculator and you'll discover that it is absolutely impossible for any electric motor to produce 5 HP from a 120 volt circuit. Even if it drew 20 amps it would still only make around 3 HP. But all of the manufacturers did it, they flat out lied until somebody made a law.
 
Silvaire said:
It may come as a shock but in the not so distant past GA aircraft manufacturers were notorious for inflating their published performance data for competitive reasons and that included the empty weight. If your competitor is out right lying you have the choice of throwing a public hissy fit or bending the truth yourself. After all, it's all relative right?

Another example is that you might own say a 15 year old air compressor with a 5 HP electric motor. Buy one today and the exact same sized motor has a 2 HP sticker on it. Whip out your handy calculator and you'll discover that it is absolutely impossible for any electric motor to produce 5 HP from a 120 volt circuit. Even if it drew 20 amps it would still only make around 3 HP. But all of the manufacturers did it, they flat out lied until somebody made a law.
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Kinda like when you buy a HDD advertised as 1TB, but you may only actually have 900GB... :(
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Yes, technically correct, but the majority of buyers don't know ti. It's still, IMO, advertising dishonestly. If I see that I have 500GBs of files to back-up, I should be able to buy a 500GB HDD...
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Yup. 5 gigabits vs 500 megabytes. Complete crap.
 
This thread is sort of eye opening. We had W&B done and we are about 50 lbs over the POH. Quick search shows it has been painted. And the larger logo on the tail must be heavier than the original smaller one ;)

But I wonder if paint would do it.


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Note: Please disregard the star wars stuff. I was hacked (I'm pretty sure by Jesse)
 
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