Idiot taildragger at Watsonville today

[MAKG1]

So, I did some flying in the 182 around Watsonville today. Mainly closed traffic preparing for an upcoming CAP Form 5, where I know they want consistent power off landings at full flap (and until now, that wasn't how I landed 182s). Turning downwind once, a pretty red NORDO Decathalon drops in on the 45. OK, I understand see and avoid, and that's what I did. Hung everything out (even the cowl flaps), pulled power and slowed to 70 on downwind to make room. I prefer 90 in a 182.

Except he didn't enter downwind. He crossed right through it, passed the threshold in use and descended into the base turn area at 500 feet. So I asked on the radio what his intentions were. No answer. So I left the pattern and reentered on the 45, to make some space. When I got back in, he was gone. I don't think he landed.

It may be legal to operate NORDO, but it's wildly irresponsible to fly right through the pattern at multiple points while NORDO. I don't care much that it was a 91.113 bust (he descended in front of me in the pattern), but the least he could have done is fly a standard pattern, or remain clear if not intending to land.

And there were meat missiles north of the field. An oblivious pilot can cause a lot of damage.

 

[eman1200]

you had me until 'meat missle', then you lost me.

 

[MAKG1]

you had me until 'meat missle', then you lost me.

Skydivers.

 

[evapilotaz]

Skydivers.

Never heard that before lol

 

[Sac Arrow]

If you are NORDO, fly a uniform, visible, predictable pattern. I mean do it anyway but especially then.

 

[RyanShort1]

Except he didn't enter downwind. He crossed right through it, passed the threshold in use and descended into the base turn area at 500 feet. So I asked on the radio what his intentions were. No answer. So I left the pattern and reentered on the 45, to make some space. When I got back in, he was gone. I don't think he landed.

It may be legal to operate NORDO, but it's wildly irresponsible to fly right through the pattern at multiple points while NORDO. I don't care much that it was a 91.113 bust (he descended in front of me in the pattern), but the least he could have done is fly a standard pattern, or remain clear if not intending to land.

And there were meat missiles north of the field. An oblivious pilot can cause a lot of damage.

I don't quite follow the description you gave as to where he went after the downwind. Sounds like maybe he didn't intend to land at all?

 

[MAKG1]

I don't quite follow the description you gave as to where he went after the downwind. Sounds like maybe he didn't intend to land at all?

He went directly from the 45/downwind "turn" to base/final. To land, he would have had to teardrop. Yet, he was at ~500 feet there.

I don't know if he landed. He could have been buzzing a buddy's house or the lake below long final.

 

[Lindberg]

I'm trying to picture how he could have been on a 45 to the downwind, crossed the runway, and then turned base. Was he landing on a different runway?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Skydivers.

Uh, dude the term you are looking for is 'meat bomb'.

Meat missile refers to something entirely different.

 

[MikeELP]

Uh, dude the term you are looking for is 'meat bomb'.

Meat missile refers to something entirely different.

Uh, dude..I've heard the term "meat missile" used for skydivers many times in many parts of the country.

Not sure what you're referring to.

Mike

 

[Fearless Tower]

Uh, dude..I've heard the term "meat missile" used for skydivers many times in many parts of the country.

Not sure what you're referring to.

Mike

A simple google search will suffice. I won't post it here.

 

[Hank S]

A simple google search will suffice. I won't post it here.

Thank you!

 

[BillTIZ]

Skydivers.

Meatballs, also used. They bounce when they hit the floor.

 

[denverpilot]

Cloudy with a chance of meatballs.

 

[jesse]

I don't quite follow the description you gave as to where he went after the downwind. Sounds like maybe he didn't intend to land at all?

He went directly from the 45/downwind "turn" to base/final. To land, he would have had to teardrop. Yet, he was at ~500 feet there.

I don't know if he landed. He could have been buzzing a buddy's house or the lake below long final.

I don't understand what you're describing either. If he was able to just fly into the base leg what was the problem?

I think you'd have been a hell of a lot better off staying in the pattern, working with whatever he was doing, and not losing sight of him. Doubt you'd have taken any delay of significance. You don't even know what happened because you turned your back to the aircraft. When an airplane is doing something unexpected the last thing I want do is lose visual with it.

Sounds to me like nothing really happened other than you needing to adjust to the situation. Why get upset and write a post calling the guy an "idiot". For all you know his oil pressure had tanked and he needed to get on the ground NOW.

The more flexible we can be, the less stressful flying is

 

[Silvaire]

...I don't care much that it was a 91.113 bust...

Well if you were on downwind and he was on the 45 and you were converging and being that all runways at Watsonville are left traffic...

Sec 91.113
. . . . . . .

(d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way.

A Decathalon is not normally a NORDO aircraft so any number of things could have been going on. The radio may have been inop, he may have been receiving without transmitting, he may have been unaware that he wasn't transmitting. I don't know the guy, he may well be an idiot but I'd need a face to face to determine that. I can't go along with your assessment based on what you've told us here. It doesn't sound like there was really a problem outside of you having to slow down a bit and open your cowl flaps.

I'd say try to be a bit more accommodating of things that might not fit into the structure you're expecting, at least until you find out what the real story is. In this case you saw him and there wasn't any danger but, as Jesse pointed out, you should have just kept him in sight rather than dart off like that.

 

[Geico266]

So, I did some flying in the 182 around Watsonville today. Mainly closed traffic preparing for an upcoming CAP Form 5, where I know they want consistent power off landings at full flap (and until now, that wasn't how I landed 182s). Turning downwind once, a pretty red NORDO Decathalon drops in on the 45. OK, I understand see and avoid, and that's what I did. Hung everything out (even the cowl flaps), pulled power and slowed to 70 on downwind to make room. I prefer 90 in a 182.

Except he didn't enter downwind. He crossed right through it, passed the threshold in use and descended into the base turn area at 500 feet. So I asked on the radio what his intentions were. No answer. So I left the pattern and reentered on the 45, to make some space. When I got back in, he was gone. I don't think he landed.

It may be legal to operate NORDO, but it's wildly irresponsible to fly right through the pattern at multiple points while NORDO. I don't care much that it was a 91.113 bust (he descended in front of me in the pattern), but the least he could have done is fly a standard pattern, or remain clear if not intending to land.

And there were meat missiles north of the field. An oblivious pilot can cause a lot of damage.

So your "training" is more important than his because you are CAP bound. Got it.

 

[Henning]

He went directly from the 45/downwind "turn" to base/final. To land, he would have had to teardrop. Yet, he was at ~500 feet there.

I don't know if he landed. He could have been buzzing a buddy's house or the lake below long final.

I'm having trouble seeing the problem, the guy came in on the 45 in front of you, had the runway made and proceeded to make a descending turn for it while simultaneously getting out of your pattern. Where is the conflict he created?

 

[Silvaire]

I think the problem here is that we have a "Cowboy" and a "Patrolman" trying to share the same airspace

 

[champ driver]

I'm not real happy about the choice of words in your title.
You could have left out the part about it being a taildragger and just called it an idiot pilot. Does it really matter what kind of plane he was flying? Just because he was in a taildragger, does that make him some kind old geezer that doesn't know how to use a radio. He could have been any pilot in any kind of plane and did what he did, taildragger or not.
Not all us taildragger pilots are old farts that were never brought up on how to use radios and proper procedures.

 

[RotorAndWing]

 

[MAKG1]

I'm having trouble seeing the problem, the guy came in on the 45 in front of you, had the runway made and proceeded to make a descending turn for it while simultaneously getting out of your pattern. Where is the conflict he created?

He CROSSED the pattern, twice. Once at stupid-low altitude. He did not enter it. I doubt he landed. If he made any turns at all, they were small. This was not a power off 180. He crossed the threshold outbound, below pattern altitude and descending.

I think he just flew straight through an airport traffic pattern as though it weren't there, for some unrelated objective on the ground. That it happened to be close to the 45 was coincidence.

It's more plausible than the emergency scenario proposed elsewhere. If his engine was toast, he would have landed in the lake, with two long runways and several good open fields in the area.

There was a little speculation on CTAF that it was a banner tow. I don't buy it. The banner op is on the other end of the airport and doesn't use a taildragger; I think it's a 206. He did leave a few minutes later, much more sensibly. Grabbed the banner near the departure end, climbed straight out past the highway (that avoids the drop zone) and turned right toward Santa Cruz.

 

[MAKG1]

So your "training" is more important than his because you are CAP bound. Got it.

Say what?

Lots of people were in the pattern. We all had a right to be there without some oblivious cowboy cutting us off. Patterns didn't seem to give anyone else trouble.

 

[MAKG1]

I don't understand what you're describing either. If he was able to just fly into the base leg what was the problem?

I think you'd have been a hell of a lot better off staying in the pattern, working with whatever he was doing, and not losing sight of him. Doubt you'd have taken any delay of significance. You don't even know what happened because you turned your back to the aircraft. When an airplane is doing something unexpected the last thing I want do is lose visual with it.

Sounds to me like nothing really happened other than you needing to adjust to the situation. Why get upset and write a post calling the guy an "idiot". For all you know his oil pressure had tanked and he needed to get on the ground NOW.

The more flexible we can be, the less stressful flying is

I might buy that if he had turned toward the runway. Instead, he crossed the pattern twice, and was headed outbound, over the threshold, below pattern altitude and descending.

I couldn't have stayed in the pattern without creating a hazard to the guy behind me. Who I knew was there because he announced it.

NORDO is legal and occasionally necessary. But it simply must be used responsibly.

At first I thought he was entering the pattern a little badly -- it's not a good idea to descend in, as some of us have high wings. But it happens. It's the playing around right where people need to turn final that I object to. There is no reason whatsoever to do that, except maybe to buzz something on the north side of town.

 

[Henning]

He CROSSED the pattern, twice. Once at stupid-low altitude. He did not enter it. I doubt he landed. If he made any turns at all, they were small. This was not a power off 180. He crossed the threshold outbound, below pattern altitude and descending.

I think he just flew straight through an airport traffic pattern as though it weren't there, for some unrelated objective on the ground. That it happened to be close to the 45 was coincidence.

It's more plausible than the emergency scenario proposed elsewhere. If his engine was toast, he would have landed in the lake, with two long runways and several good open fields in the area.

There was a little speculation on CTAF that it was a banner tow. I don't buy it. The banner op is on the other end of the airport and doesn't use a taildragger; I think it's a 206. He did leave a few minutes later, much more sensibly. Grabbed the banner near the departure end, climbed straight out past the highway (that avoids the drop zone) and turned right toward Santa Cruz.

Ok, he crossed the threshold below pattern altitude outbound descending, then what? At 500' with a crosswind I'm in perfect position to cut 45° downwind then reverse for a direct turn to final, basically just a descending Ag turn. Not saying that's what he did, but with the lack of anything else... You don't seem to know what happened to him after this point. One other little thing, are there any pipeline right of ways running through there? I know I used to cut through a few airports on patrol.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Uh, dude the term you are looking for is 'meat bomb'.

Meat missile refers to something entirely different.

I'm glad someone caught it.

Sounds to me like nothing really happened other than you needing to adjust to the situation. Why get upset and write a post calling the guy an "idiot". For all you know his oil pressure had tanked and he needed to get on the ground NOW.

The more flexible we can be, the less stressful flying is

You get it.

I laughed.

This thread has been enjoyable to read. If I got wound up every time someone did something stupid on the road, I'd be dead. I do what I have to do to keep myself safe.

 

[MAKG1]

Ok, he crossed the threshold below pattern altitude outbound descending, then what? At 500' with a crosswind I'm in perfect position to cut 45° downwind then reverse for a direct turn to final, basically just a descending Ag turn. Not saying that's what he did, but with the lack of anything else... You don't seem to know what happened to him after this point. One other little thing, are there any pipeline right of ways running through there? I know I used to cut through a few airports on patrol.

Yes, that's the point. Nonstandard is fine. NORDO is fine. Just not both at the same time.

I left the pattern precisely because I didn't know what he was going to do next. He should have told us, or done the standard drill. It's unsafe to be unpredictable in an airport environment.

There are quite a few professionals at that airport. Everyone else plays nice.

Pipeline rights of way are unlikely, except perhaps for natural gas (and those seem to be secret). More likely around the San Francisco Bay. Watsonville isn't really on the way to anywhere; there are better routes into San Francisco further east.

 

[Henning]

Yes, that's the point. Nonstandard is fine. NORDO is fine. Just not both at the same time.

I left the pattern precisely because I didn't know what he was going to do next. He should have told us, or done the standard drill. It's unsafe to be unpredictable in an airport environment.

There are quite a few professionals at that airport. Everyone else plays nice.

Pipeline rights of way are unlikely, except perhaps for natural gas (and those seem to be secret).

Lol, there is no secret pipeline, they are all marked and when not running underneath urban centers and suburban neighborhoods, are quite easy to spot and follow.

 

[MAKG1]

Lol, there is no secret pipeline, they are all marked and when not running underneath urban centers and suburban neighborhoods, are quite easy to spot and follow.

Well, the San Bruno accident sure seemed to take everyone by surprise, and the claim was made. Maybe it was bogus; I'm certainly not a pipeline expert.

 

[PaulS]

Lol, there is no secret pipeline, they are all marked and when not running underneath urban centers and suburban neighborhoods, are quite easy to spot and follow.

Chemtrail pipelines are secret.

 

[Clark1961]

Pipeline rights of way are unlikely, except perhaps for natural gas (and those seem to be secret). More likely around the San Francisco Bay. Watsonville isn't really on the way to anywhere; there are better routes into San Francisco further east.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/infrastructure/natural_gas.html

 

[lr60plt]

How does anyone operate anymore when some little instance like this happens and its enough to run back to an internet forum and make a whole thread about it?

Just call him an idiot in your head and move along with the rest of your day...what do you expect us to say...."wow, glad you survived that"...?

God forbid a real problem happened.

 

[Palmpilot]

So your "training" is more important than his because you are CAP bound. Got it.

Where do you see him saying anything like that?

 

[Palmpilot]

After doing my night currency in a 182 Friday night, as I approached San Carlos from the southeast, I had trouble spotting the airport among the city lights, and actually ended up overhead the field before I spotted it, so I turned and entered the downwind to avoid overflying a very noise sensitive area. If there had been anyone else in the pattern at the time, I suppose someone would have started a thread somewhere called "Idiot 182 at San Carlos Friday night."

 

[Dav8or]

MAKG- You're going to have to let this one go. You're the awkward easterner that just stepped into a cowboy saloon to complain about a cowboy. The prevailing "wisdom" on this board is that at an uncontrolled field, you can do anything you want anyway you want and it's all good. The cowboy creed seems to be no rules, no government, everyman for himself and just get 'er done. If two guys do end up bumping into each other, it's always because one, or both were busy watching TV instead of looking out the window.

That's not to say that there aren't a lot of us that agree with your position, just that it's pointless to debate it here. This is cowboy country.

 

[kayoh190]

Chemtrail pipelines are secret.

Dude, the first rule of chemtrails is that you don't talk about chemtrails.

 

[MAKG1]

After doing my night currency in a 182 Friday night, as I approached San Carlos from the southeast, I had trouble spotting the airport among the city lights, and actually ended up overhead the field before I spotted it, so I turned and entered the downwind to avoid overflying a very noise sensitive area. If there had been anyone else in the pattern at the time, I suppose someone would have started a thread somewhere called "Idiot 182 at San Carlos Friday night."

Not if you announced what you were doing.

Though you might have heard comments from passing airliners if you were too far off and busted Class B.

Watsonville was quite busy at the time. There were at least two in the pattern and two more at the hold short line when this happened.

I understand the freedom thing. But with freedom comes the responsibility to use it wisely. And that freedom absolutely, positively, does not include freedom from criticism. What that cowboy did was incredibly stupid. Was it legal? Maybe; I don't care; I'm not going to bust him or turn him in. But it was thoroughly stupid.

You guys want to keep NORDO ops legal? Then, don't do stupid stuff like that.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If responsibility is a prerequisite it ain't really freedom. Just make believe friendly fascism freedom.

 

[Silvaire]

...I left the pattern precisely because I didn't know what he was going to do next. He should have told us, or done the standard drill. It's unsafe to be unpredictable in an airport environment...

This has been mentioned a couple of times but I would have kept him in sight rather than bolt off only to return minutes later wondering where the heck he went. I can see somebody accidentally flying over an airport without realizing it but Watsonville? Kind of hard to miss that one.

Maybe you could make a sketch of his flight path and post it because your description is leaving most of us scratching our heads.

 

[Palmpilot]

This has been mentioned a couple of times but I would have kept him in sight rather than bolt off only to return minutes later wondering where the heck he went. I can see somebody accidentally flying over an airport without realizing it but Watsonville? Kind of hard to miss that one.

Maybe you could make a sketch of his flight path and post it because your description is leaving most of us scratching our heads.

When he said the tail dragger crossed the pattern twice without much of any turn, from the description of events, it sounds like it must have crossed the downwind leg, and then the base leg.

When he said he had to leave the pattern to avoid the tail dragger because of traffic behind him, I'm inclined to take his word for it, because he was there, and we weren't.