I think I want my PPL, please help me!

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jconway2002

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jconway2002
Hello,

I am almost 28 and have always thought it would be great to have my PPL, and after talking with my 67 year old father the other day I learned he always wanted to learn to fly as well, needless to say he never got around to it. This made me realize what better time to learn then now.:idea:

I work right next to a small airport in North County San Diego that has a couple groups and a school, there are also a ton of groups and schools down in San Diego but that is a 35-40 minute commute for me. Does it make any sense for me to NOT go to my local airport? I am wondering if I should stick with the school or try get instruction from on of the groups. I am still a little unsure how that would even work though. How do I find a good instructor? Can I log hours in with a school and switch to another instructor if I find someone I like who will do it for less?

Money is also another issue that has prevented me from doing this sooner. I have some money stashed away, but its mostly reserved for my wedding in July 2013, but thats a long ways off. How much money a month do you think I would have to spend to make the lessons worth while? The nearby school charges $85/hr for a Cessna 152 and $55/hr for instruction, does that mean I am looking at $140 a lesson or are there hidden fees I am not seeing? At $140 an hour I can see myself only being able to afford a lesson once a week, is that doable? :dunno:

And finally, does this make sense? I would feel great about accomplishing this so I wont regret it when I am 67, but will I get anything more out of it then just taking a cruise every now and then? Seems like a blast to be able to take the plane somewhere far away just for lunch but I am middle class, and definately not rich...is flying only for the wealthy?
 
jconway2002 said:
Hello,

I am almost 28 and have always thought it would be great to have my PPL, and after talking with my 67 year old father the other day I learned he always wanted to learn to fly as well, needless to say he never got around to it. This made me realize what better time to learn then now.:idea:

I work right next to a small airport in North County San Diego that has a couple groups and a school, there are also a ton of groups and schools down in San Diego but that is a 35-40 minute commute for me. Does it make any sense for me to NOT go to my local airport? I am wondering if I should stick with the school or try get instruction from on of the groups. I am still a little unsure how that would even work though. How do I find a good instructor? Can I log hours in with a school and switch to another instructor if I find someone I like who will do it for less?

Money is also another issue that has prevented me from doing this sooner. I have some money stashed away, but its mostly reserved for my wedding in July 2013, but thats a long ways off. How much money a month do you think I would have to spend to make the lessons worth while? The nearby school charges $85/hr for a Cessna 152 and $55/hr for instruction, does that mean I am looking at $140 a lesson or are there hidden fees I am not seeing? At $140 an hour I can see myself only being able to afford a lesson once a week, is that doable? :dunno:

And finally, does this make sense? I would feel great about accomplishing this so I wont regret it when I am 67, but will I get anything more out of it then just taking a cruise every now and then? Seems like a blast to be able to take the plane somewhere far away just for lunch but I am middle class, and definately not rich...is flying only for the wealthy?
Click to expand...

For the wealthy? I had to put my training on a credit card, and each paycheck choose between "good groceries" and "crappy groceries but a short flight".

Definitely not for the wealthy. The wealthy hire people to fly them around. I'd say people for the most part make money but not too much money.
 
Oh and not each lesson will be one hour. For example, you might brief the lesson on the ground for 30 minutes, then preflight for 15 minutes, then taxi / runup / get gas, then fly for 1-2 hours, then come back, tie down, and debrief for 30 minutes. An hour is not enough for one lesson. I'm not trying to scare you away, but if you are on a budget, tell your CFI before you begin that you need to know how much he / she charges for ground time vs. flight time - and how much each lesson will cost. As you train for cross countries etc the lessons get even longer.
 
You can try it out and switch instructors / schools if you want. No big deal. It may set you back an hour or two, but, hey! the objective is to go flying - so what if it takes a little longer to get the ticket?

Ask around. Talk to the instructor. No reason to not try the local guy.

Once a week is not unusual.

Clubs can sometimes be lower cost. Usually.

What are you going to do after you get the ticket? No point in saving up, getting your PP then not be able to fly because you ran out of money, eh? Some people have the need to travel, some of us are happy just to go out for an hour or so and play. We can't tell you what you want.

Make sure you understand what you are getting into BEFORE you go in for a medical. For most people, it's a no-brainer. But if you have a history of medication, DUI, whatever it can turn into a worm can real fast. And if you fail the medical you are locked out of sport pilot options. If there are any doubts, sort it out before you touch an FAA form.


Go for it.
 
jconway2002 said:
How much money a month do you think I would have to spend to make the lessons worth while? The nearby school charges $85/hr for a Cessna 152 and $55/hr for instruction, does that mean I am looking at $140 a lesson or are there hidden fees I am not seeing? At $140 an hour I can see myself only being able to afford a lesson once a week, is that doable?
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Your numbers are about right, however there is another variable to it: if you fly more often, you need less flying time overall, because if you only fly once a week, you spend a lot of time re-learning. I was shooting for about twice a week, although it not always happened, and ended with about $14,400 spent on some 72 hours and supplies. I usually flew about 1.5 to 1.8 hours at a time. I think if I only flew for an hour, and once a week, I would never finish. Knowing about this, some people go for accelerated programs and only spend $8k or about that.

jconway2002 said:
I have some money stashed away, but its mostly reserved for my wedding in July 2013, but thats a long ways off.
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You must get your fiance onboard with this.

Do not forget that you are committing to aviation. Piloting is a perishable skill, so once there you have to fly more than 35 hours a year, preferably significantly more. Otherwise you lose currency and become a hazard for yourself and your passengers. That means spending at least $5k at every year, until you decide to stop or die.

P.S. I once was writing another $350 check after a lesson and remarked how flying was stenous financially. The clerk quipped: "you think this is expensive, wait until you start doing cross-countries" (cross-countries are a mandatory part of the curriculum).
 
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While you are at it, get Dad to join you in learning. No reason he, t 67, can't learn as well.
See about taking a couple of different discovery flights. You'll find a difference in the instructors and the planes you fly. You will find each school has its good points and bad. Every instructor is different. Some are kids younger than you; others are you Dad's age.
Fly as often as possible. 5-10 hours a month and in 6 months, you'll have the whole thing done. More is better because you only need 40 hours but most take 50-60. Fly more, less hours needed.
 
I bought a cheap recorder (audio) to record my ground lessons, even the preflight. I played it back during the week when I was unable to fly. If you can go and get video and audio in the cockpit, even better. The more you can do to remember everything that is said to you and taught to you - the more money you will save. They say it is like "drinking from a fire hose" and that most beginners only remember 1 - 5 percent of what is taught in the very first lessons.

But beware. Do not let the recording distract you or get in the way of your lessons. I mention this only as a suggestion, but also as a way to share the learning and joy of flight with your Dad if the two of you cannot both take lessons.
 
PS - Stick around POA. There are lots of people who would like to help you through this and encourage you to "go for it" and get your PPL.

PPS - Sometimes, a "discovery flight" can save you money vs. a first "real" flight lesson since some places use it as a marketing tool to get people interested in becoming pilots.
 
Buying "block time." usually lowers the cost as well. I promise; if you really want to learn to fly, once you start you'll find the time and resources to finish. As mentioned above, it might mean crappy groceries but once you get started it becomes a no-brainer. you'll eat the crappy groceries. :yesnod:
 
I am eating plain pasta as we speak. Crappy grocery eaters, unite. Pasta is only 99 cents at Trader Joe's.
 
I started to fly working at Autozone for like $8.50 an hour, IIRC. It was tough, and I ate a LOT of Ramen, but I did it.

Not all lessons will be 1 hour long. As a matter of fact, once I moved to 2 hour lessons I started learning faster. Just judge it on what you can save up for. My budget was basically:

Income: ~$280 after taxes per week (we were paid weekly in NH)
Food: ~$20 - pure Ramen. Yep, it can be done, and I was ok on it.
Lessons: ~$115/hr, 2 lessons a week, 3 if I got overtime.

It helped that I did not have rent at the time. Also, rental time has gotten more expensive in the last few years. Find a club and put the up front money into it and it gets cheaper (much cheaper) in the long run.

Also - if a job change is possible, try to get a job working for one of the FBOs or flight schools. They usually result in cheaper rental fees as well.
 
Do it before you are married or you will end up like your dad.
 
First things first, budget your priorities. Make sure you have a savings plan or enough savings put away for your wedding. Then get quotes and listen to the instructors and, if you can, former customers of the surrounding flight schools. It's not uncommon to drive 30 min for a good school. Keep in mind that the cheaper schools can either be the best or the worst in town. No school is absolutely perfect, just find one that fits your needs. Have a plan as to how much you are willing to spend on flying. You're looking at somewhere between $6,000 - 14,000. If you find it cheaper after all costs with a good instructor and an airplane that isn't nick named "killer" consider yourself one in a million. Discovery flights are a must and will give you an opportunity to take the controls yourself. Most flight schools will even count it as a first lesson.

Some other things you can think about is attending your local Experimental Aircraft Association meetings. There's usually a great group of guys there willing to point you in the right direction. Sometimes they even do fly-outs on the weekends and ask people to ride along! I met my very first instructor there and received 8 hours of flight training before moving on to a school.

There are lots of free resources available to you including everything you need to know as a pilot on the FAA's library website. http://www.faa.gov/library/
You can also get a free 6 month subscription to AOPA flight training magazine, one of my favs as a student and CFI. Then of course POA is full of great people of all walks of life that can answer questions...many whom I'm sure have been in your situation.

Good luck!
 
If you don't intend to do this for a living and "just want to have fun" give serious thought to looking at the Sport Pilot certificate. If you do your research and cannot do it for less than $6000, I would be surprised.

Ryan
 
We just received our light sport aircraft. I'll be curious to see how many will complete in 20 hours.
 
You think you want your PPL? Fair warning - it's a very expensive hobby. Most of the people that are replying to your post see flying as a passion.

When I got my PPL 12 years ago a buddy of mine - somewhat wealthy software engineer in Ventura - said that he'd like to get his license...always wanted to do it. He flew RC planes, etc, so flying was an interest. He could afford it...still can...easily. BUT, he NEVER flies anymore. I think I recall him telling me of a handful of flights over the 2 years after getting his license 10 years ago. I'd be surprised if he has 100 hours in his logbook.

I guess the take-away from this is that if it's something you love...that you're passionate about...then you'll do it regardless of the cost. If you identify with that, then go after it. If you don't, then save your hard earned money and take up something you ARE passionate about.

Also, if you're ever up in Idaho (not that you will be), I'll gladly take you up for a couple hours in my RV-7A. No charge...just for the enjoyment of it.
 
Agree with the others. If it's something you want to do bad enough, you can find a way to make it happen. I wanted to fly since I was about 10 years old. Started lessons when I was 49. Wish I'd done it way earlier.

But there's no way around the fact it is expensive. There are plenty of ways to minimize costs, but it's just not a cheap hobby. But then, neither is golf, boating, motorcycling, gambling, hookers nor any of the other myriad ways people choose to entertain themselves. It's about priorities. If the call of the skies is unrelenting, there are plenty of ways to make it work. Get a second (or third) job, sell stuff, drive an older car, etc. And as mentioned by another poster, make sure your fiance is onboard.

The rates you quoted seem pretty typical, although in the rural area where I live, instructors get more like $30-$40 per hour. Talk to people, peruse the internet pilot forums and ask questions. And remember that cheaper isn't always better, in flight instruction. Does the airplane appear well-maintained, is the CFI a career instructor or looking to build time for an airline job? How will his/her schedule fit with yours? If they tell you you WILL get your certificate in 40 hours and it will cost xxx, run the other way. While it's possible to do it in the minimum time, it's uncommon -- especially if you can only fly once a week.

Good luck to you...
 
I know!

I had to give up hookers and gambling on yachts, to take up flying again.

I know lots of pilots who also did. It's so sad.

I used to be able to afford hiring Henning as the boat's Captain, too. Now he's selling his 310.

It was hard, but I persevered.

NBAA and GAMI are working on some new Marketing plans to attract more people with my life experiences...

"Giive up your hookers and golf, let's go flying!"

And for the backwoods operators...

"Trade one expensive Beaver for another!*"

*Turbine conversions with floats available at extra charge.

Look for these and others when they float them (get it?) this year at AOPA Summit!

They've wisely changed the target market slightly for the EAA Airventure crowd...

"Hookers not doing it for you anymore? Come try DIY! We have presentations about the use of pneumatic tools!"

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
 
zaitcev said:
P.S. I once was writing another $350 check after a lesson and remarked how flying was stenous financially. The clerk quipped: "you think this is expensive, wait until you start doing cross-countries" (cross-countries are a mandatory part of the curriculum).
Click to expand...

My long IFR cross country was $700. That's quite a bit to blow in one day.
 
zaitcev said:
P.S. I once was writing another $350 check after a lesson and remarked how flying was stenous financially. The clerk quipped: "you think this is expensive, wait until you start doing cross-countries" (cross-countries are a mandatory part of the curriculum).
Click to expand...

THAT sounds very familiar! :rofl:
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I am eating plain pasta as we speak. Crappy grocery eaters, unite. Pasta is only 99 cents at Trader Joe's.
Click to expand...

I love pasta with just butter. This is assuming you could actually afford the butter to put on them. :D
 
I will say this. As someone who took 23 years to get their PPL, and because of that decided to go accelerated courses after that (got my instrument in 13 days) I highly recommend getting the money together and then flying as much as you can until you get it. There are also accelerated PPL courses.
 
jconway2002 said:
is flying only for the wealthy?
Click to expand...

I am just quoting the above, because it's the most challenging psychological aspect of taking this endeavor.

Let me state this: I am willing to bet you a nice crisp Benjamin that the vast majority - like, easily 95% - of the people posting to this board are not wealthy. In fact, I am willing to make the same bet for the GA pilot population at large.

At the same time, I doubt many of us are strictly poor, either. More likely to find the folks living off the Ramen noodles, oddly enough, working the airlines, I would suspect the regionals. Sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. Folks doing this for fun and self-fulfillment are generally able to afford doing it to the degree that they are.

I'm also willing to bet that my own profile is not unusual in this regard; part of what used to be called the "professional class", making a decent living but by no means wealthy, paying for training and leisure flights out of pocket with nothing to show for it except the incredible experiences acquired along the way, and the pride and joy associated with being able to do something so few people ever get to do, enjoying a freedom almost unparalleled in our over-regulated world. Best I can describe it is once you're in the air, by yourself, you realize just how much you just don't want to come down and rejoin the masses.

And that's it, in a nutshell. And it's worth every pretty penny you will have put in it. But don't look at it as an investment, because there is no logical way to justify the cost. Yes, sure, like many others I can show an ROI for it, and half of my training costs were tax deductible because I fly both for personal and business reasons (I'm sure I'm not unusual in that either), but that's all a way to make the equation feel better. In the end, it's nothing you need to do, but if you really have the bug - and your post seems to indicate that you do - then it will be one of the most amazing things you will ever do for yourself.

So shut your eyes and jump off the proverbial cliff - and soar, baby. Soar.
 
bluee said:
My long IFR cross country was $700. That's quite a bit to blow in one day.
Click to expand...

Where the heck did you go? Australia?

I don't think I paid $300 for all day in a C-152... Plattsburgh, NY - Albany, NY - Manchester, NH, Then Home. 350 miles or so. Sometime in 1984. :blueplane:
 
Flying isn't just for the wealthy- for the rest of us, it's about doing without other stuff, or downgrading your lifestyle slightly. It might also involve compromise in terms of what you're going to fly, how far and how often.

As for what school to go to, I'd advise you to first try the school that's closest, to save money and time getting to/from lessons... but if you don't feel you are getting your money's worth from the aircraft and instructor, you might be better off going farther from home.
FWIW, if you do start looking farther south, I have dealt with First Flight down at KSDM, and would recommend them highly.
http://www.firstflightcorp.com/

You'd be surprised what can be done when you want it badly enough... at one point during my training (during a time when I was employed only sporadically) I had no car, and the only way to get to the field was to take a train into NYC from NJ, take the subway all the way up to the GW Bridge, get on a bus back into NJ, then from the bus walk about a mile to the airport (there was a train from one town to the other in NJ, but it would have left me even farther from the airport). It was rough, but it cost less than a taxi and it worked. And my commute time was perfect for studying; an unexpected bonus.
I also ate a lot of noodles and rice and beans, wore my clothes and shoes until they had holes in them, cut my own hair, drank cheap beer, lived where the rent was cheap, and basically never went out.
 
FlySince9 said:
Where the heck did you go? Australia?

I don't think I paid $300 for all day in a C-152... Plattsburgh, NY - Albany, NY - Manchester, NH, Then Home. 350 miles or so. Sometime in 1984. :blueplane:
Click to expand...

Hey!!
My wife is from Plattsburgh. She AND all her Yankee relations, ants, uncles and cousins too all moved to Georgia. I tell ta, it is the second occupation of the land of the righteous!!! :wink2:
 
rottydaddy said:
Flying isn't just for the wealthy- for the rest of us, it's about doing without other stuff, or downgrading your lifestyle slightly. It might also involve compromise in terms of what you're going to fly, how far and how often.

As for what school to go to, I'd advise you to first try the school that's closest, to save money and time getting to/from lessons... but if you don't feel you are getting your money's worth from the aircraft and instructor, you might be better off going farther from home.
FWIW, if you do start looking farther south, I have dealt with First Flight down at KSDM, and would recommend them highly.
http://www.firstflightcorp.com/

You'd be surprised what can be done when you want it badly enough... at one point during my training (during a time when I was employed only sporadically) I had no car, and the only way to get to the field was to take a train into NYC from NJ, take the subway all the way up to the GW Bridge, get on a bus back into NJ, then from the bus walk about a mile to the airport (there was a train from one town to the other in NJ, but it would have left me even farther from the airport). It was rough, but it cost less than a taxi and it worked. And my commute time was perfect for studying; an unexpected bonus.
I also ate a lot of noodles and rice and beans, wore my clothes and shoes until they had holes in them, cut my own hair, drank cheap beer, lived where the rent was cheap, and basically never went out.
Click to expand...


Let's see, if my navigation is correct, you trained at KTEB. That's where I did my training:). Started in '98 and got my wings in '99. I went to Million Air flight school. Don't think they're there anymore, maybe the FBO but not the flight school
 
I'm still amazed at how I managed to see it through to the end! Had a wife and three young children. Started maxing out credit cards to complete the lessons and I knew that after I got my ticket my flying would come to an eventual halt. Flew for about a year before I had to put my hobby on the back burner. We put our children in private school so my flying money dried up..lol. Took me ten years to get back into the cockpit. Started flying again this past summer, I wasn't really surprised at how rusty I was but I was a little surprised that it only took me around 7 hours to get back up to speed! So after all these years, I'm just now approaching the 200hr mark in my log book LoL
 
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I was bitten by the flying bug as a little boy when I looked up and saw these awesome machines in the sky! I knew that I wanted to fly. Didn't get a flight until I was in my early twenties (on an airline). Didn't get to take lessons til I was 33! My first CFI was ten years younger than I. So I guess if you're determined enough, nothing can hold you back:)
 
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Keith Lane said:
Hey!!
My wife is from Plattsburgh. She AND all her Yankee relations, ants, uncles and cousins too all moved to Georgia. I tell ta, it is the second occupation of the land of the righteous!!! :wink2:
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I was stationed there for 4 years. I loved that place except it only had two seasons.... Winter and... the 10Th of August (I think it was).:cheers:
 
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All this talk of self imposed poverty isn't going to motivate anyone to get a license.:yikes:
 
FlySince9 said:
Where the heck did you go? Australia?

I don't think I paid $300 for all day in a C-152... Plattsburgh, NY - Albany, NY - Manchester, NH, Then Home. 350 miles or so. Sometime in 1984. :blueplane:
Click to expand...

4.5 hours in a 172 at $112/hour, plus $50/hour for my CFII.
 
Wow! I got to say I was not expecting so many replies...GREAT replies at that! This has to be one of the best message board communities I have seen.

Thank you to everyone for sharing your stories, it is comforting to see that my situation isn’t unique and is quite common. I also appreciate the reality that has been shared about flying, and the encouragement to go for it.

I have been doing my research and have reached out to a local flying club, after a bit of phone tag this week I hopefully will be able to get some questions answered today and have a more concrete idea of what I can expect should I pursue the training. Hopefully they will be able to take me on an introductory flight, and hopefully I will come back down to earth without any doubts.

Out of curiosity, as far as maintaining your PPL, is flying 35 hours a year mandatory? What happens if you are forced to take a hiatus from flying after earning your PPL, how do you get back into it?

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
P.S.

My fiance is great and supports me no matter how crazy the idea may seem. The one concern she has is the safety of small airplanes. Does anyone have any information handy on the subject from maybe when they had to convince their family members?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Oh and not each lesson will be one hour. For example, you might brief the lesson on the ground for 30 minutes, then preflight for 15 minutes, then taxi / runup / get gas, then fly for 1-2 hours, then come back, tie down, and debrief for 30 minutes. An hour is not enough for one lesson. I'm not trying to scare you away, but if you are on a budget, tell your CFI before you begin that you need to know how much he / she charges for ground time vs. flight time - and how much each lesson will cost. As you train for cross countries etc the lessons get even longer.
Click to expand...
I tell students to plan on a 3 hour slot with about 1.2 to 1.5 of flight time. Once they get a little further along in their training this shortens up a bit.
 
jconway2002 said:
Out of curiosity, as far as maintaining your PPL, is flying 35 hours a year mandatory? What happens if you are forced to take a hiatus from flying after earning your PPL, how do you get back into it?
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No, it's not mandatory. It helps you stay fresh if you fly regularly.

You do have to get a flight review (with an instructor) every two years, you have to have made a few landings in the last 90 days to take passengers. Pretty minimal requirements.

If you phase out for a few years, you have to do the flight review to get current again - how long that takes depends on how rusty you are. But, unless they change the rules, your certificate never expires.
 
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