These efforts to explain away the Fekete case are pretty amazing, and seem to ignore the fact that the guy on base got the revocation, not the guys making straight-in approaches.
If you can find an enforcement case where a straight-in pilot was sanctioned for not yielding to traffic in the pattern, I'd like to see it.Only because they'd be intentionally creating a collision hazard. Even though the pattern traffic might have the right-of-way, he can't knowingly create a collision hazard just because the straight-in traffic didn't yield as he should have.
These efforts to explain away the Fekete case are pretty amazing, and seem to ignore the fact that the guy on base got the revocation, not the guys making straight-in approaches.
There's a lot here, but it basically only says that a straight-in is a valid approach. What it doesn't clarify is how to determine when the straight-in has the right of way over an aircraft in the pattern. In the case cited, pattern aircraft were "cutting off" Straight-ins. What it doesn't deal with and what many folks are asking is when does the straight-in shift to being on final?
In the real world, it seems much easier. Figure out where the straight in is and if you can't land and clear ahead of him, extend your downwind. For the straight-in, figure out how busy the pattern is and whether it makes more sense to work into the pattern or if you can slide in without distrupting a whole bunch of other planes.
What, is clicking on a link too hard?Thanks for showing us the decision that youve been referencing for so long!
During the flight operation described in paragraph 2 above, you failed to give way to an aircraft that had the right of way by virtue of the fact that it was on final approach and at a lower altitude than your aircraft.
You turned inside of a Piper Arrow, identification no. N2841V, when that aircraft was on final approach to the [airport].
You turned inside of a helicopter, identification no. N506TH, when that aircraft was at a lower altitude and ahead of you in the pattern.
Upon landing your aircraft during the flight operation described in paragraph 4 above, you came dangerously close to a Piper aircraft that had just landed and was clearing the runway; you also came dangerously close to a Beech Baron aircraft, identification no. N1849R, that was in position on runway 10, awaiting takeoff.
You were aware that the R-22 was making a final approach to Runway 10 at the time you turned your aircraft onto final approach to Runway 10, and that your turn would place your aircraft in the path of the R-22's approach to Runway 10.
Your turn from base leg to final approach in the path of the R-22 created a collision hazard endangering the lives and property of others.
While you were flying the base leg for Runway 28, you confirmed specifically with the Citation jet via radio that it was on final approach to Runway 28 and then turned your aircraft onto final approach to Runway 28.
At the time you turned your aircraft onto final approach for Runway 28, you were in front of and at an altitude higher than that of the Citation jet.
We note, in this connection, that the Citation the respondent cut in front of, in violation of the right-of-way rules, had flown the pattern.
Nobody is ignoring that. We're simply pointing out that the pattern entry method seems to be irrelevant. The consistent factor is that he cut them off on final, as was stated in the letter. Some of those aircraft had flown the pattern and then were cut-off on final, some flew straight-in and then were cut off, per the letter, on final.
Any explaining we're doing is to try to assist you in your apparent confusion between the pattern entry method (straight-in entry) and the landing leg of the pattern (final).
Nothing I can find in this letter corroborates your view. The regulations don't corroborate your view. And the AIM actually conflicts with your view.
As far as I know, no one has been arguing that you have to yield the right-of-way to straight-ins that are not close enough to pose a hazard.If two planes wanting to land are close enough to have a conflict, right of way goes to the lower plane, provided they don't abuse this to cut off planes on final appproach. [In your often mentioned case, cutting off other planes close enough to be in conflict was the action.] So sometimes right of way will go to the plane in the pattern, sometimes to the guy straight in--it's case by case depending on speed, position and altitude.
But if you want to always yield to the other plane, that's fine. It's your choice. But that doesn't mean because you like sausage that the rest of us can't have bacon with our eggs.
If you read the section I quoted, the respondent argued that he thought that he had the right-of-way over straight-ins, and he offered as an excuse that FAA publications had led to his having that misconception. The NTSB rejected that excuse.I've yet to find something that says the straight-in pattern entry was relevant.
If you read the section I quoted, the respondent argued that he thought that he had the right-of-way over straight-ins, and he offered as an excuse that FAA publications had led to his having that misconception. The NTSB rejected that excuse.
Specifically, he suggests that his conduct resulted from his confusion--for which the FAA is assertedly responsible by virtue of allegedly inconsistent regulations and advice--over the legality of straight-in approaches at uncontrolled fields such as Millville.
In this connection he implies that he believed that if straight-in approaches were not permitted, then aircraft landing in accordance with the airport's traffic pattern need not yield to aircraft that had not.
He in effect submits that he now understands [...] that straight-in approaches are permissible at uncontrolled fields and, accordingly, he will change his operating procedures by yielding the right-of-way, when the rules so dictate, to aircraft that have not flown the pattern
91.113(g) dictates that one must not cut off traffic on final. If the traffic on final is not close enough to be a factor, then there is no requirement to yield.Read the last bolded statement. He, supposedly, now understands that straight-in approaches are legal, and he will yield when the rules so dictate.
Straight-In Landings.
The FAA encourages pilots to use the standard traffic pattern when arriving or departing a non-towered airport or a part-time-towered airport when the control tower is not operating, particularly when other traffic is observed or when operating from an unfamiliar airport. However, there are occasions where a pilot can choose to execute a straight-in approach for landing when not intending to enter the traffic pattern, such as a visual approach executed as part of the termination of an instrument approach. Pilots should clearly communicate on the CTAF and coordinate maneuvering for and execution of the landing with other traffic so as not to disrupt the flow of other aircraft. Therefore, pilots operating in the traffic pattern should be alert at all times to aircraft executing straight-in landings, particularly when flying a base leg prior to turning final.
I say again, if someone can find a case where a straight-in was sanctioned for failing to yield to traffic in the pattern, I'd like to see it.
There [Administrator v. Dibble], we stated that "straight-in approaches were acceptable if the approach did not interfere with aircraft executing a normal left-hand pattern and if the straight-in approach did not deviate more than 30 degrees from the center of the runway as measured from the threshold of the runway."
If two planes wanting to land are close enough to have a conflict, right of way goes to the lower plane, provided they don't abuse this to cut off planes on final appproach.
14 CFR 91.113(g) said:§91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
The rules don't say that traffic on a straight-in automatically gets right-of-way. They do say that if that traffic is on final, it has right-of-way. Straight-in approach is not the same things as final.
Only because they'd be intentionally creating a collision hazard. Even though the pattern traffic might have the right-of-way, he can't knowingly create a collision hazard just because the straight-in traffic didn't yield as he should have.
Pilot/Controller Glossary said:FINAL− Commonly used to mean that an aircraft is on the final approach course or is aligned with a landing area.
Say it all you want, but the peoples' whose opinions matter don't agree with you.
I haven't seen them agree with you either...
it's pretty clear from the established case law that if a conflict exists between an aircraft on a straight-in final and an aircraft coming around the pattern, the aircraft in the pattern is to give way to the one on final.
While you were flying the base leg for Runway 28, you confirmed specifically with the Citation jet via radio that it was on final approach to Runway 28 and then turned your aircraft onto final approach to Runway 28.
The bottom line is that the judgement you've been referencing is irrelevant. It only seems to place importance on traffic that is on final.
If you still harbor the view that straight-in traffic has the right-of-way by default, you should look at the CFR, where there is no such regulation. The regs do give preference to aircraft that are on final; they do not give preference to aircraft on a straight-in.
If that's not enough for ya, you can read the AC, where it says that straight-in entries should not disrupt the flow of other aircraft:
So, at this point, you have not provided an interpretation or ruling in which an agency or law judge asserts that straight-in traffic has the right-of-way. We've beat this thing up now, and neither of us can find that assertion.
However, you wrote
I don't feel like we should substantiate our view with a legal judgement when you have not substantiated your view with a legal judgement, considering that the regulations and guidance already supports our view.
But, for the sake of discussion, because I enjoy nerding out on aviation topics, and because I'm just simply a nice guy I will attempt to provide that!
Administrator v. Dibble. It (or at least the quoted language) supports our view that straight-in traffic does not, by default, have right-of-way over pattern traffic. I can't find the text of it online, but I found the following from another case that references it. I'll quote from that in substitution. You can download the rest at https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/3671.pdf
I linked to a case that differentiates between straight-in approaches and final. People have had their licenses suspended because they confused "straight-in" and "final", and followed the wrong rules.
Both sides have their minds made up. As for straight-ins, I seldom fly them unless I'm flying an instrument approach, and when I do, I don't expect people to yield the right-of-way, because there's so much disagreement on the subject.I give up. @Palmpilot and @flyingcheesehead have their minds firmly made up and nothing will dissuade them, that regardless of what is going on, traffic doing a straight in approach to an empty or full pattern always and in every case has right of way. It's to the point of religious zealotry, nothing in the FARs will change their mind.
I am certainly through trying.
But do watch for me in the pattern if you're flying straight in, because if you aren't close, I'm not waiting for you.
I give up. @Palmpilot and @flyingcheesehead have their minds firmly made up and nothing will dissuade them, that regardless of what is going on, traffic doing a straight in approach to an empty or full pattern always and in every case has right of way. It's to the point of religious zealotry, nothing in the FARs will change their mind.
But do watch for me in the pattern if you're flying straight in, because if you aren't close, I'm not waiting for you.
But maybe not the smart thing.
Un-towered airport. Flying a Skycatcher.
I'm doing run up on 23.
Citation calls straight in for 05, 10 miles out about the time I finish and get ready to take off.
I'm thinking, he's out and not in the pattern, 10 miles...I should be able to take off, turn left early, and leave him room to land without getting sporty.
So I call that I'm departing 5 for closed pattern.
As I hit the throttle, the Citation calls 8 miles and switching to a right entry for runway 05.
I take off, turn left, and am about mid-field when I see the Citation abeam me on the right pattern.
He turns and lands ahead of me.
As I understand, straight in approaches are not in the pattern and have no priority for landing so I was technically within my rights to take off.
Upon reflection, I'm thinking the better thing to do would have been to contact the Citation, offer to hold short, and just wait for him to get in.
Your thoughts?
To summarize, 91.113(g) says that traffic on final approach has the right-of-way. It also says that a lower aircraft has the right-of-way, but shall not take advantage of that to cut in front of traffic on final approach. To me, "cut in front of" means to turn close enough in front of another aircraft to interfere with its approach; thus if traffic on final approach is far enough out, then other traffic can operate ahead of it without violating its right-of-way.
Some people believe that an aircraft making a straight-in approach is not on final approach, but FAA guidance on where final approach begins is not clear cut. The P/CG defines "FINAL" without specifying a starting point, and it defines "FINAL APPROACH -IFR" as beginning at the final approach fix or final approach point. Meanwhile, AIM Section 4-3 defines "final approach" as extending from the base leg to the runway, but it doesn't specify a particular distance from the runway at which the base leg must be flown, other than saying that the turn to final should be completed at least 1/4 mile from the runway.
AIM 4-3-3d Note 1 says:
"Pilots are encouraged to use the standard traffic
pattern. However, those pilots who choose to execute a
straight−in approach, maneuvering for and execution of
the approach should not disrupt the flow of arriving and
departing traffic. Likewise, pilots operating in the traffic
pattern should be alert at all times for aircraft executing
straight−in approaches."
It doesn't explicitly say that pattern traffic has right-of-way over straight-ins, but I can see how it could give some people that impression. If that is what the FAA intends, then it SHOULD be explicit, including an amendment to 91.113(g), because the recurring controversies about this show that there is lack of a common understanding of what the rules are.
Personally, I think it would be a bad idea for the FAA to write a regulation that gives pattern traffic right-of-way over straight-ins. It would create dilemmas for aircraft in the pattern who could have difficulty determining whether they had the right-of-way, because it might not be obvious whether the aircraft on final was a straight-in, or had just flown a larger pattern. This is especially true if one or more of the aircraft has no radio. It could make things especially difficult for traffic making instrument approaches in marginal VFR weather.
Extending downwind to accommodate a straight-in is just not that hard in most cases.
As it stands, no one can or should depend on having the right-of-way, regardless of where they are relative to the pattern. That the FAA's lack of clarity on this has not resulted in more accidents is probably a tribute to the fact that pilots are more polite in the air than they are on Internet forums.