I said the F word during a job interview.

[SixPapaCharlie]

I had an interview last night and I meet the guys and right away I know this is not the gig for me.

They have this screen up showing their deadlines and tell me we have to have this project done by Oct 1 and we are behind schedule and we haven't finished hiring our dev team. It was more detailed than that but obvious they are destined to fail this.

It is too bad because I am really interested in their business. I asked the guy as PC as possible "Look, I know this question is bad form but what happens if you can't hit Oct 1?" He goes "We're going to hit it"

I get the "failure is not an option" mentality but that doesn't mean you don't plan for risks.

Anyway like 3 times during the interview, the CEO's phone kept ringing.
He never answered but just hit the button on the phone. I hear him mumble under his breath "f**k off" as he hits the button the last time.

A few min pass and he asks me "How do you deal with an angry customer" Without skipping a beat I go "If I see their number on my phone, I just press the f**k off button and hope they don't call back"

You could hear a pin drop. Not one ounce of humor in these gentlemens' brains.

Then I asked the million dollar question. Since there are no plans to address a possible missed deadline and you are behind schedule and haven't finished hiring the people that are essentially already behind schedule, how do you propose you will make Oct 1?

His response: "It is not like we will be working every weekend between now and then but we will be working most of them." The 2nd in command says " last weekend, I took my daughter to Great Wolfe Lodge for 2 days and during that entire time not once did I enjoy my time with her because I was so focused on the requirements for this project"

I said "well I have heard enough, let me mull this over this weekend and give you my thoughts on Monday." I was in the lobby when I was on the phone with the recruiter saying "not a snowball's chance in hell but I feel good because I got to say F**k in a job interview and I bet that is a rare thing"

 

[ollopa]

Classic Mythical Man-Month, right?

I don't understand how so many people can find jobs in management and not grasp the simple concept that people are people and take time to come up to speed on new projects, and that not all tasks can be parallelized.

Nice response to his dumb-ass question

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

I enjoy your job search posts.....

The red flag was apparent...right from the start....(as far as what I know about your family)

Single guy....maybe.....

in your situation....laugh and add f words at your discretion when you see early on its not gonna fit.

Enjoy the hunt....your a bright guy....you will get the almost perfect job.!!'

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Classic Mythical Man-Month, right?

I don't understand how so many people can find jobs in management and not grasp the simple concept that people are people and take time to come up to speed on new projects, and that not all tasks can be parallelized.

Nice response to his dumb-ass question

Its unfortunate because what they want to do is something I would like to be a part of but I work for my family. My family is not an interruption in my work.

These guys are high rollers and whatever but they are delusional when it comes to what they expect to accomplish. They are literally needing every hour to count and there is no room for ramp up.

I cannot imagine a scenario in which they will succeed. Maybe they can put everything NWR on the back burner but how can they find people to hire that will do the same.

When he made the comment about essentially wasting his time w/ his daughter, I asked "how long can you keep this up?"

He said "A long time. I have done this before"

From that point on I talked with him about the gig but thinking "you are a sh***y dad"

 

[AggieMike88]

Bryan, can you share with us a bit about what the project would have created and why Oct. 1 was so important to them?

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I enjoy your job search posts.....

The red flag was apparent...right from the start....(as far as what I know about your family)

Single guy....maybe.....

in your situation....laugh and add f words at your discretion when you see early on its not gonna fit.

Enjoy the hunt....your a bright guy....you will get the almost perfect job.!!'

Thanks!

My kids are my world.
Work was killing me Wed so I told my current boss you hold down the fort, I have a date.

I took my daughter to a museum and I didn't waste a single second thinking about my work.

Today is her 6th birthday.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Bryan...you come off to me a as super creative person....reading your many entertaining posts.

Have you ever thought of creating your own business? Creating a niche....building on that?

Your a parachute guy now(cirrus humor).....strap on tight and take the plunge if it can be done. It will make you cringe at first...then you may find yourself asking...why didn't I do this sooner.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Bryan, can you share with us a bit about what the project would have created and why Oct. 1 was so important to them?

Sure. Great Question Mike.

It was taking psych clinics from paper to electronic.
on Oct 1 IDC10 codes come out and EMR (for Mental Health) need to meet certain requirements.

You know when you visit your doc, they have all those color coded folders? They are replacing that system w/ electronic methods. This is a good thing and I am all for it but they are backed into this deadline and they have angry customers because the company prior to them that had planned on doing this for all the clinics in Texas had spent millions of dollars over 5 years and still not completed it.

So these guys are unfairly being punished for their predecessor's crappy performance. Still, I don't think they can do what they want to do. I don't have the energy to try and be a part of it.

 

[warthog1984]

Good to have your priorities in order!

 

[Zeldman]

I was interviewing for a chief pilot job once. I also knew from the minute I walked in that this was not the job for me.

The owner asked me what I would demand for a salary.

I told him, "10 million a year plus personal use of a company jet."


Funny, they never called me to tell me I had the job.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Classic Mythical Man-Month, right?

I don't understand how so many people can find jobs in management and not grasp the simple concept that people are people and take time to come up to speed on new projects, and that not all tasks can be parallelized.

Nice response to his dumb-ass question

Thanks!

My kids are my world.
Work was killing me Wed so I told my current boss you hold down the fort, I have a date.

I took my daughter to a museum and I didn't waste a single second thinking about my work.

Today is her 6th birthday.

I totally agree and I am the same.(3 little buggers....well 14 10 and 3)....and own a small business now.....

Wife stays home badmouthing me all day on FB about housework....but she's home with my 3 rd old and home when kids are out of school...she loves it.

Being the boss is nice. Well I can say im the boss here on PoA...but we know who the boss really is.

BTW.....'happy b day little miss 6PC.

 

[ollopa]

Good for you (seriously). You can't get that time back and nothing (technical) we do at work is actually important. 80 hours a week of Jolt and hypertension is not for men who have started families.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Bryan...you come off to me a as super creative person....reading your many entertaining posts.

Have you ever thought of creating your own business? Creating a niche....building on that?

Your a parachute guy now(cirrus humor).....strap on tight and take the plunge if it can be done. It will make you cringe at first...then you may find yourself asking...why didn't I do this sooner.

Thanks again.

So, I know I think a little differently and would love to do my own thing but the issue is the balance. Fact is, kids need shots and dental appts. and things that cost a lot so benefits keep me from just directly stopping what I am doing and making my own thing.

If it were just me, I would (for better or worse) be taking time off to do stand up or write or do things that I realize late in the game I have an aptitude for. Honestly, I am a musician at heart and I am on the tail end of a project that means a lot to me. I work really hard at building what I would love to replace my day to day but I work on it when everyone is asleep or away because it doesn't benefit anything other than me at this point.

I don't discuss it much but I am hardcore into music. It is on par w/ my passion for flying.

That said, there is a (hopefully funny) POA tribute song coming soon

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Thanks again.

So, I know I think a little differently and would love to do my own thing but the issue is the balance. Fact is, kids need shots and dental appts. and things that cost a lot so benefits keep me from just directly stopping what I am doing and making my own thing.

If it were just me, I would (for better or worse) be taking time off to do stand up or write or do things that I realize late in the game I have an aptitude for. Honestly, I am a musician at heart and I am on the tail end of a project that means a lot to me. I work really hard at building what I would love to replace my day to day but I work on it when everyone is asleep or away because it doesn't benefit anything other than me at this point.

I don't discuss it much but I am hardcore into music. It is on par w/ my passion for flying.

That said, there is a (hopefully funny) POA tribute song coming soon

Don't get caught up on benefits.... They are a huge tax deduction with a small business and in reality you are paying for them now even if you want to call them "benefits".

The leap is the hardest part.

Your job search has been long...but your self employment can be another option while looking....

Don't sell yourself short....explore and exploit your boundaries.

 

[denverpilot]

Absolute gold! The F*** off button.

Love it.

Good call not going there. It'd be a crap-shoot at best and a train wreck at worst.

We may have found our new DevOps guy. I know the team said to make an offer, anyway.

Not perfect, but he showed more brain cells than many many others... And seemed to both have a sense of humor and also had a serious side.

I started smirking when he made a boo boo and said, "Everyone I know who does PHP stuff is always complaining about it."

We're a PHP shop and the CTO gives an unholy number of public presentations on PHP every year.

LOL! I kicked back and waited and wished I had popcorn.

Eventually the CTO says, "So something you said worried me a bit. You said everyone that uses PHP complains about it and the rest of the interview you talked about how much you like Python. We're an all PHP shop. Tell me the one thing you hate the most about Python."

Pin drop. Hahaha.

He actually recovered really well and explained that he sees tools as tools and while he likes Python he uses whatever's best for the task.

I wanted to say, "So you're saying you can't make up your mind on what tool to use?" just to make him squirm, but I was trying hard not to laugh.

He stepped in it and managed to pull his boot out and wash it off.

And I couldn't deliver the line with a straight face anyway.

At that point we were just messing with him, anyway. CTO knew I kept looking at my phone to watch a minor IT disaster that was going on outside the room (and I had already apologized to the candidate for doing so), so he texted me five minutes before he asked the question and said, "Are you a yes?" Reply: "Yep."

LOL. I hope we get him. He took the ribbing well. He also seemed pretty sharp. He had good questions for us about the role.

(Which technically isn't a coding role anyway, but his Python stuff could augment and help with certain things. We aren't scared of him using Python at all. It was just a classic "You didn't do your homework on the CTO by name on Google, did you?" moment.)

I guess we will hear soon. Interviews are such a PITA.

 

[AggieMike88]

Thanks again.

So, I know I think a little differently and would love to do my own thing but the issue is the balance. Fact is, kids need shots and dental appts. and things that cost a lot so benefits keep me from just directly stopping what I am doing and making my own thing.

If it were just me, I would (for better or worse) be taking time off to do stand up or write or do things that I realize late in the game I have an aptitude for. Honestly, I am a musician at heart and I am on the tail end of a project that means a lot to me. I work really hard at building what I would love to replace my day to day but I work on it when everyone is asleep or away because it doesn't benefit anything other than me at this point.

I don't discuss it much but I am hardcore into music. It is on par w/ my passion for flying.

That said, there is a (hopefully funny) POA tribute song coming soon

Sounds like you and the guys from "The Arrogant Worms" would get along very well. An example of their work (and a favorite of mine)
New Car Smell https://youtu.be/iIcbho2P-04?t=1m42s
Happy Birthday Song https://youtu.be/ACUjMNDSrgY
Malcolm solves his problems with a chainsaw https://youtu.be/H3Fd7a51P8o
When I'm Dead, put my head in the freezer https://youtu.be/RY4NmIxyvCE

 

[Henning]

I had an interview last night and I meet the guys and right away I know this is not the gig for me.

They have this screen up showing their deadlines and tell me we have to have this project done by Oct 1 and we are behind schedule and we haven't finished hiring our dev team. It was more detailed than that but obvious they are destined to fail this.

It is too bad because I am really interested in their business. I asked the guy as PC as possible "Look, I know this question is bad form but what happens if you can't hit Oct 1?" He goes "We're going to hit it"

I get the "failure is not an option" mentality but that doesn't mean you don't plan for risks.

Anyway like 3 times during the interview, the CEO's phone kept ringing.
He never answered but just hit the button on the phone. I hear him mumble under his breath "f**k off" as he hits the button the last time.

A few min pass and he asks me "How do you deal with an angry customer" Without skipping a beat I go "If I see their number on my phone, I just press the f**k off button and hope they don't call back"

You could hear a pin drop. Not one ounce of humor in these gentlemens' brains.

Then I asked the million dollar question. Since there are no plans to address a possible missed deadline and you are behind schedule and haven't finished hiring the people that are essentially already behind schedule, how do you propose you will make Oct 1?

His response: "It is not like we will be working every weekend between now and then but we will be working most of them." The 2nd in command says " last weekend, I took my daughter to Great Wolfe Lodge for 2 days and during that entire time not once did I enjoy my time with her because I was so focused on the requirements for this project"

I said "well I have heard enough, let me mull this over this weekend and give you my thoughts on Monday." I was in the lobby when I was on the phone with the recruiter saying "not a snowball's chance in hell but I feel good because I got to say F**k in a job interview and I bet that is a rare thing"

Welcome to my world. More than once I have asked an owner, "Excuse me, but are ****ing nuts? Do you realize what you're asking for is impossible?" I'm consistently surprised at still getting the jobs after dashing their delusions.

It feels good doesn't it?

 

[Henning]

Its unfortunate because what they want to do is something I would like to be a part of but I work for my family. My family is not an interruption in my work.

These guys are high rollers and whatever but they are delusional when it comes to what they expect to accomplish. They are literally needing every hour to count and there is no room for ramp up.

I cannot imagine a scenario in which they will succeed. Maybe they can put everything NWR on the back burner but how can they find people to hire that will do the same.

When he made the comment about essentially wasting his time w/ his daughter, I asked "how long can you keep this up?"

He said "A long time. I have done this before"

From that point on I talked with him about the gig but thinking "you are a sh***y dad"

Most billionaires are delusional, that's why they are billionairss, they don't hold themselves back with self doubt; they understand they can create any reality they want, and do. What is really fun is yelling at them for being immoral *******s when they brag about ****ing someone over. They're not used to that.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Absolute gold! The F*** off button.

Love it.

Good call not going there. It'd be a crap-shoot at best and a train wreck at worst.

We may have found our new DevOps guy. I know the team said to make an offer, anyway.

Not perfect, but he showed more brain cells than many many others... And seemed to both have a sense of humor and also had a serious side.

I started smirking when he made a boo boo and said, "Everyone I know who does PHP stuff is always complaining about it."

We're a PHP shop and the CTO gives an unholy number of public presentations on PHP every year.

LOL! I kicked back and waited and wished I had popcorn.

Eventually the CTO says, "So something you said worried me a bit. You said everyone that uses PHP complains about it and the rest of the interview you talked about how much you like Python. We're an all PHP shop. Tell me the one thing you hate the most about Python."

Pin drop. Hahaha.

He actually recovered really well and explained that he sees tools as tools and while he likes Python he uses whatever's best for the task.

I wanted to say, "So you're saying you can't make up your mind on what tool to use?" just to make him squirm, but I was trying hard not to laugh.

He stepped in it and managed to pull his boot out and wash it off.

And I couldn't deliver the line with a straight face anyway.

At that point we were just messing with him, anyway. CTO knew I kept looking at my phone to watch a minor IT disaster that was going on outside the room (and I had already apologized to the candidate for doing so), so he texted me five minutes before he asked the question and said, "Are you a yes?" Reply: "Yep."

LOL. I hope we get him. He took the ribbing well. He also seemed pretty sharp. He had good questions for us about the role.

(Which technically isn't a coding role anyway, but his Python stuff could augment and help with certain things. We aren't scared of him using Python at all. It was just a classic "You didn't do your homework on the CTO by name on Google, did you?" moment.)

I guess we will hear soon. Interviews are such a PITA.

Perfect reason to start your own business......if you have the experience and the guts to make the leap.

I suspect applicant had minimal experience....otherwise why subject yourself to this torture.

If you have the "skills to pay the bills" not sure why you use your skills to pay an employers bills....when you can make more doing it yourself. There is that comfort zone that most like....totally understandable.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Most billionaires are delusional, that's why they are billionairss, they don't hold themselves back with self doubt; they understand they can create any reality they want, and do. What is really fun is yelling at them for being immoral *******s when they brag about ****ing someone over. They're not used to that.

Huh????

There may be some billionaires that are delusional....but money makes money....doesn't take a genius economist to figure that out.

And yelling at them as you describe ain't gonna win you much business.

Your stories are funny.

If you own your own business don't hire people with this opionion....

 

[Henning]

Huh????

There may be some billionaires that are delusional....but money makes money....doesn't take a genius economist to figure that out.

And yelling at them as you describe ain't gonna win you much business.

Your stories are funny.

If you own your own business don't hire people with this opionion....

You'd be surprised, some even keep calling me back. It's 50:50 whether I get fired for it or not, but I love my life. The last one was epic because the broker/manager also being driven insane by this guy's complete inconsideration of others and completely unrealistic expectations, and he was sitting there trying not to laugh. I unloaded on him for 15 minutes on the ****ty way he treats people. At least I got his family cruise done for him for the Valentine's week before I went off. He'd been through 16 captains in the last 2 years and never had one long enough to leave the dock, and has been through 2 since me.

Oh yes, they are most all delusional in their self worth, occasionally they are well grounded, but not typically. I get away with it because I only do it when I'm right and they know it. The ones that call back like me because they know they can ask my opinion on about anything and I can and will provide them a well reasoned opinion whether they will like the conclusion or not. That's a rare commodity in a sea of 'yes men' and sycophants, and some of them value that. Those that do, I work for.

Be yourself, be honest, and be really good at what you do, and you will always succeed.

 

[ollopa]

The ultra-rich don't live in the same kind of reality that the rest of us do. It's not simply a matter of spending power and never having to worry about money but also not having to consider risk in the same way. I could quit my job this week and go 100% on a small business idea, but I have to consider what will happen to my assets and my family if that venture fails. A person from a rich family (or a wealthy person himself) is far more likely than I am to take a risk after sizing up an opportunity.

It's said that what makes successful people so is not the obvious -- that they're good at being successful -- but that they're really good at failing. The average entrepreneur fails about 4 times before finding success and that means that people who come from a wealthy background and are less risk-averse are more likely to be optimistic and keep plugging at it until it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think I'd say that they're delusional... They really do live in a different world with different rules.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

You'd be surprised, some even keep calling me back. It's 50:50 whether I get fired for it or not, but I love my life. The last one was epic because the broker/manager also being driven insane by this guy's complete inconsideration of others and completely unrealistic expectations, and he was sitting there trying not to laugh. I unloaded on him for 15 minutes on the ****ty way he treats people. At least I got his family cruise done for him for the Valentine's week before I went off. He'd been through 16 captains in the last 2 years and never had one long enough to leave the dock, and has been through 2 since me.

Oh yes, they are most all delusional in their self worth, occasionally they are well grounded, but not typically. I get away with it because I only do it when I'm right and they know it. The ones that call back like me because they know they can ask my opinion on about anything and I can and will provide them a well reasoned opinion whether they will like the conclusion or not. That's a rare commodity in a sea of 'yes men' and sycophants, and some of them value that. Those that do, I work for.

Be yourself, be honest, and be really good at what you do, and you will always succeed.

Thanks for story time ....in fine Henning fashion.

Ugh....

My oplogies to 6PC for a derail.

 

[Henning]

The ultra-rich don't live in the same kind of reality that the rest of us do. It's not simply a matter of spending power and never having to worry about money but also not having to consider risk in the same way. I could quit my job this week and go 100% on a small business idea, but I have to consider what will happen to my assets and my family if that venture fails. A person from a rich family (or a wealthy person himself) is far more likely than I am to take a risk after sizing up an opportunity.

It's said that what makes successful people so is not the obvious -- that they're good at being successful -- but that they're really good at failing. The average entrepreneur fails about 4 times before finding success and that means that people who come from a wealthy background and are less risk-averse are more likely to be optimistic and keep plugging at it until it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think I'd say that they're delusional... They really do live in a different world with different rules.

That's my point, by our standards, they are delusional, however it is we who don't understand that what ever we think can be reality; we are delusional in our perceived limitations, we really have none. They live in a different world, because they create it with their thoughts first, and then make it real. Most of us just don't understand or accept the process because they don't believe it could be possible. We create any reality we decide to, and they create theirs. The thing is, they for the most part create it by ****ing people and creating misery, and I call them on it.

 

[ollopa]

Henning reminds me of Richard Bach. Henning, are Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions on your bookshelf?

I guess I agree with you that we can shape our own reality but with the caveat that money/means and health are often out of our control.

 

[Henning]

Henning reminds me of Richard Bach. Henning, are Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions on your bookshelf?

I guess I agree with you that we can shape our own reality but with the caveat that money/means and health are often out of our control.

There are infinite random factors as well, that's why they are .01%. That does not mean though that the major reason that people don't achieve what they want is because they don't believe it possible. People in the developed world hold themselves back more than any other factor.

 

[Mutts]

Nothing wrong with working hard now and then we gotta pay bills and such, but, life is very very short. Sometimes shorter then you plan both for yourself and others.
Time is gold in your hand. Don't waste it on such idiocy. A life lived is not measured by the dollar and deadlines.

A Stop at Willoughby
https://vimeo.com/89150452

 

[gkainz]

He actually recovered really well and explained that he sees tools as tools and while he likes Python he uses whatever's best for the task.

His name wasn't Bryan, was it? Pony tail guy? Sounds like a guy that left here a while ago.

 

[timwinters]

Thanks for story time ....in fine Henning fashion.

Ugh....

My oplogies to 6PC for a derail.

Typical Henning hijack...trying to turn every thread into something about himself, and we though Captain was narcissistic.

Hang in there Bryan! Something better will come your way. Your future's so bright you gotta wear shades!

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Typical Henning hijack...trying to turn every thread into something about himself, and we though Captain was narcissistic.

Hang in there Bryan! Something better will come your way. Your future's so bright you gotta wear shades!

I'll be fine.
I have 2 companies that are supposed to get back to me on Monday.
Solid companies that actually make and sell things, not just a phone app or something.

Both gave me really good feedback and my references have been texting me saying they are getting calls so I believe if the numbers work, I should be in a good spot soon.

My company offered me 3 months severance and 2 additional months bonus if I stick around till the close so I am still being very picky during this job hunting process.

I still have 26 hours in my flying budget.

 

[AdamZ]

Bryan, we were once interviewing for an secretary we had a couple of decent candidates. The last one we liked and who got great recommendations made a very un PC comment in the interview. She smacked her forehead knowing what she said. She later told the story on FB saying I guess I didn't get that job. (Yes we check FB ) long story short is we hired her. We appreciated that she had a sense of humor and could take a joke.

Moral is your F bomb could have actually landed you the job.

 

[PaulS]

Great story, and great job. Your kids will be out on their own before you know it, I think you understand that, most people don't.

 

[shoprat]

Well I'm new here and have been reading a lot trying to get a feel for the people on here, so I am not up to speed on the back stories. But the smile on your daughters face trumps everything !! Happy Birthday to Her

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

This struck me as funny

 

[timwinters]

Yeah, those two have been juxtaposed a few times of late...I too chuckled.

 

[Lindberg]

Sounds like many start ups I interviewed at during the dot com boom. "Why don't you want to work 24 hours a day? We have foosball and pizza!" I don't think any of the places that scoffed at me for being unwilling to bust my ass for stock still exist.

 

[midlifeflyer]

What are the possibilities of other potential employers discovering this thread?

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

What are the possibilities of other potential employers discovering this thread?

I don't care.
I say"F**k" and I make time for my kids.

Anyone who has met me knows those 2 things. :wink2:

Edit: I don't say it in front of the kids

 

[N747JB]

As an employer, I insist my people go to their kids events, whether it's ball games, cheerleading or the math bowl! They can't take off to go to everything, but an hour early here and there or a weekend to go to a big game or event makes for very happy employees and FAMILIES!
I keep an eye out for folks trying to abuse my kindness, but it rarely happens. I don't think they should leave early to go to practices, but if it's important to them, it's important to me and we can usually shift someone to cover for them. I had one sales manager who's son played college football, we arranged his entire vacation to be on game days, so he never missed a game. He would shoot a nun for me!

 

[Clark1961]

I don't care.
I say"F**k" and I make time for my kids.

Anyone who has met me knows those 2 things. :wink2:

Edit: I don't say it in front of the kids

For some jobs it's important to be squeaky clean. For the most part, I'd rather filter out the managers who have unrealistic expectations. I really am not interested in covering two or three job descriptions...