I Need Help! Do I buy?

[Kevin87]

Hi Everyone,

I really need some advice.

I fly about twice a month sometimes three times, and I rent an aircraft. The rental is 115 an hour wet.

I have been looking into purchasing a 152. Since I have never owned an aircraft before, I really have no idea what the costs will be.

I guess I just need a little help getting started to see if it is cost effective for me to own rather then rent.

Can anyone help?

 

[PPC1052]

No it will not (be more economical to own than rent). But if you own, you never have to ask permission, and have no deadline to get it back home.

 

[flyingron]

It's not going to be cost effective. Put that out of your mind right there.

It may still be worth it. The plane will be yours. It will not be scheduled for others to use. You will have absolute control over maintenance. You can leave your stuff in it if you like.

A 152 will run you $30K or so. You'll have to inquire about insurance, expect on the order of $2500/year. Tie down will run you somewhere between $50-$350/mo depending where you are. You're burning something like 6 gal/hour (figure out what gas costs you, around here it's about $5.50/gal). Add a few bucks in for oil.

Then we're down to the fun stuff...maintenance. That could run you in the range of $1000/year if you're lucky and significantly more if you're unlucky.

 

[John221us]

It is not really about saving money, but once you commit to the fixed costs of ownership (tie down/hangar, insurance, annuals, etc.) I think you will tend to fly more often and to more interesting places (since you don't have to worry about overnight minimums and such). It is nice always having the plane ready for you and knowing its condition when last flown. Of course the other side of that, is when something breaks, you are paying the bill and things do break.

 

[bluerooster]

Hi Everyone,

I really need some advice.

I fly about twice a month sometimes three times, and I rent an aircraft. The rental is 115 an hour wet.

I have been looking into purchasing a 152. Since I have never owned an aircraft before, I really have no idea what the costs will be.

I guess I just need a little help getting started to see if it is cost effective for me to own rather then rent.

Can anyone help?

Define "cost effective" first.

 

[Kevin87]

This is great info guys. I guess I am wondering if the cost will be more then renting rather then cheaper. 350 a month comes down to 4200 a year.

Do you think it is possible to own a 152 and fly it 50 - 100 hours a year on around 4500 bucks a year?

 

[Henning]

Hi Everyone,

I really need some advice.

I fly about twice a month sometimes three times, and I rent an aircraft. The rental is 115 an hour wet.

I have been looking into purchasing a 152. Since I have never owned an aircraft before, I really have no idea what the costs will be.

I guess I just need a little help getting started to see if it is cost effective for me to own rather then rent.

Can anyone help?

It used to be the standard was 100hrs a year was where it became economically more beneficial to own than rent. There are more ephemeral benefits to ownership such as availability, knowledge of condition at last operation, ability to control quality of maintenance and avionics.

The primary cost reduction variable is your mechanical aptitude and available time to do the heavy and tedious labor yourself. If the answer to this is that you are of aptitude and means to do much/most of your own wrench turning, disassembly/reassembly stuff, you can always find an A&P-IA who will work with you at very reasonable terms.

In the 'Fixed Costs' category, a hangar is probably the highest value optional expense.

My last words on shopping planes, shop quality, not price. 152s are all so low priced now, paying top market of $30-$35k for an extremely nice, never been a trainer. The well equipped panel and low time engine that has spent it's life in a hangar as a well loved pancake breakfast plane for the last 35 years by the first owner who put 3500 hrs on it at an even 100 a year; that plane has 25 times the value in maintenance savings over the $12k, 42,000 hr plane from Dean's Flight School in Miami where the only time it sees the hangar is when it's getting repaired, so figure twice a month this thing took a bonk, and it's weathered more than one hurricane.

Shop for the best plane you can buy, and that value will pay off in spades.

 

[JoeSelch]

It's not going to be cost effective. Put that out of your mind right there.

It may still be worth it. The plane will be yours. It will not be scheduled for others to use. You will have absolute control over maintenance. You can leave your stuff in it if you like.

A 152 will run you $30K or so. You'll have to inquire about insurance, expect on the order of $2500/year. Tie down will run you somewhere between $50-$350/mo depending where you are. You're burning something like 6 gal/hour (figure out what gas costs you, around here it's about $5.50/gal). Add a few bucks in for oil.

Then we're down to the fun stuff...maintenance. That could run you in the range of $1000/year if you're lucky and significantly more if you're unlucky.

$2500 for insurance?
I'm with ya on the rest of it, but ...

I paid $600, including full hull, my first year in a Grumman Yankee as a low-time pilot.

Even my tail wheel RV was about half that for the first year.

Here, we're taking about the ubiquitous Cessna 152!

 

[John221us]

This is great info guys. I guess I am wondering if the cost will be more then renting rather then cheaper. 350 a month comes down to 4200 a year.

Do you think it is possible to own a 152 and fly it 50 - 100 hours a year on around 4500 bucks a year?

It will cost more than that to own. Fixed costs alone would be a minimum of $200 (tie down, insurance, annual, taxes if applicable, oil changes, etc.), plus fuel and any additional maintenance and upgrades that might come up.

 

[Bonchie]

$350 not counting fuel is doable for a 152 if you pay like 25k for it.

$200 a month in fixed costs and a $150 a month note (assuming a 10-15 year loan) is in the ballpark. But that won't include fuel costs, oil per hour, and other maintenance. While those costs aren't much on a 152, they add up of course.

With 152s routinely renting for $85 an hour wet in most of the country, you could fly 4-5 hours a month and still come out less then owning. And if something breaks, you get to walk away.

Now, if you were wanting to haul 3 people, with some cross country work, and the rental would cost you $140-$160 an hour + minimums on overnights, then buying becomes a serious option if you fly 100+ hours a year. But for a 152 at 75 hours a year? Rent in your situation.

 

[Artimas]

Also, as you gain more experience, you may want to start flying something bigger and more useful for short trips and taking friends/family members, maybe a 172. I think most people would prefer to purchase a plane like that. It's more useful and easier to sell when the time comes.

If you own the 152, then you'll be less inclined to do that.

I'd keep renting for a while if I were in your shoes.

 

[asgcpa]

Also, as you gain more experience, you may want to start flying something bigger and more useful for short trips and taking friends/family members, maybe a 172. I think most people would prefer to purchase a plane like that. It's more useful and easier to sell when the time comes.

If you own the 152, then you'll be less inclined to do that.

I'd keep renting for a while if I were in your shoes.

I would tend to agree. Even a gorgeous 180hp Archer with a brand new engine, kind of chugged and plugged on my cross country to Lambert from Chicago Executive and back. Kind of wish I was in a faster plane.

Probably my advice from my limited experience is to rent until you find a nice plane that has a higher useful load, and faster speed. The 150/152 category of planes, even a 172, PA28-140, 150, 161, etc. might not cut it for you in the future. Its probably easier buying a plane than selling one....so I am waiting until I can afford the one that will really meet my mission.

just my 2 cents....

 

[Morgan3820]

It's not going to be cost effective. Put that out of your mind right there.

It may still be worth it. The plane will be yours. It will not be scheduled for others to use. You will have absolute control over maintenance. You can leave your stuff in it if you like.

A 152 will run you $30K or so. You'll have to inquire about insurance, expect on the order of $2500/year. Tie down will run you somewhere between $50-$350/mo depending where you are. You're burning something like 6 gal/hour (figure out what gas costs you, around here it's about $5.50/gal). Add a few bucks in for oil.

Then we're down to the fun stuff...maintenance. That could run you in the range of $1000/year if you're lucky and significantly more if you're unlucky.

Really... I, with 128 hrs. logged, pay $800/yr. for $35K of coverage. I often find your cost estimates much higher than my experience. My fixed cost run about $2500/yr.

 

[Kevin87]

Thanks guys this is good stuff

 

[poadeleted20]

Since I have never owned an aircraft before, I really have no idea what the costs will be.

If you email me, I will send you a paper I wrote on the ownership costs of a simple single like that based on nearly four decades of ownership. Email, only, please -- no posts, PM's, phone calls, letters, smoke signals, or ESP thought waves.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

It used to be the standard was 100hrs a year was where it became economically more beneficial to own than rent. There are more ephemeral benefits to ownership such as availability, knowledge of condition at last operation, ability to control quality of maintenance and avionics.

The primary cost reduction variable is your mechanical aptitude and available time to do the heavy and tedious labor yourself. If the answer to this is that you are of aptitude and means to do much/most of your own wrench turning, disassembly/reassembly stuff, you can always find an A&P-IA who will work with you at very reasonable terms.

In the 'Fixed Costs' category, a hangar is probably the highest value optional expense.

My last words on shopping planes, shop quality, not price. 152s are all so low priced now, paying top market of $30-$35k for an extremely nice, never been a trainer. The well equipped panel and low time engine that has spent it's life in a hangar as a well loved pancake breakfast plane for the last 35 years by the first owner who put 3500 hrs on it at an even 100 a year; that plane has 25 times the value in maintenance savings over the $12k, 42,000 hr plane from Dean's Flight School in Miami where the only time it sees the hangar is when it's getting repaired, so figure twice a month this thing took a bonk, and it's weathered more than one hurricane.

Shop for the best plane you can buy, and that value will pay off in spades.

Excellent . Read carefully what henning says. Buy a nice one and do not....do not tie it down outside. It's tough on any airplane. If your low time and want to go cheap, rent instead, build some hours and you probably won't want a 152 anyway.

 

[James331]

A 152 will run you $30K or so. You'll have to inquire about insurance, expect on the order of $2500/year. Tie down will run you somewhere between $50-$350/mo depending where you are.

. That could run you in the range of $1000/year if you're lucky and significantly more if you're unlucky.

Jesus!!

Please don't pay 30k for a 150/2

Unless you had a DUI or something or crashed a plane I don't see how your insurance can be that high.

If you pay 350mo for a TIE DOWN, you'll have to send me your address so I can come over a slap you!

My annuals and mx on a 4 place plane is well UNDER 1k yr.

Look into a Grumman AA1 or maybe a Cheif or Champ. Look towards the middle parts of the country.

Find a hangar mate (nice thing about small planes)

Call Avemco insurance

Do owner assist annuals and source all your own parts.


I have a 150hp 4 place, under 3000tt, 200SMOH, good flyer and ramp appeal, paid under 30k for it. I pay 800ish a yr in insurance (when I feel the need for it), average annual is about 500-800 owner assist when I don't go upgrading things (which I don't have to do), my port a port hangar was under 3k with a land lease of under 70bucks a month.

Flying can as expensive as you make it.

 

[somorris]

Hi Kevin. It can be done for close to your budget.

 

[AggieMike88]

I'm thinking you're a prime candidate to be part of a flying club / co-ownership arrangement.

I got into a good one that has two aircraft (www.metroflyersclub.com) and it is very affordable, both on cost of entry, dues, and rental costs. Plus other ongoing costs are "managed" for me.

What part of the country do you reside in? We may have a recommendation or two for you.

 

[Bill Watson]

A bit OT: Does everyone carry full hull by default?

I did that with my sailplanes... but I was racing and landing them off field so it made sense and it paid off.

I did that with my Maule for most of it's life... it was my first tailwheel and things were, how you say, "in play" for those first few years. Not sure I ever reached the point where the outcome was never in doubt.

Now I just carry liability. In other words, I self insure. Seems like the right way to go given my circumstances. But if anyone were to ask me what the criteria for self insurance is, I wouldn't have definitive answer.

I'm guessing that self insurance makes sense for a lot of people. Do many of you do it? Do any of you give it a serious thought? Just wondering...

 

[FORANE]

I took a different path than some here have advised. When I purchased a 150 to use as a trainer, I bought a 400 hr SMOH basic ugly but mechanically sound 1969 J model. I parked it outside where the tie down was free. I paid something like 14k, flew it for a couple years and sold it for about the same. We had a couple annuals in that time of around $400 each. We had minimal additional maintenance such as a few tire changes. We had AOPA insurance of around $700 annually. It burned what around 5 gph at around $5.50 per gal.
I would not buy another other than a trainer. It was inefficient as a cross country machine both in time and fuel burn. My RV and Lancair get there in half the time at around half the fuel consumption.
I would choose the 150 over the 152 though due to cost difference.

 

[EppyGA]

I'm thinking you're a prime candidate to be part of a flying club / co-ownership arrangement.

I got into a good one that has two aircraft (www.metroflyersclub.com) and it is very affordable, both on cost of entry, dues, and rental costs. Plus other ongoing costs are "managed" for me.

What part of the country do you reside in? We may have a recommendation or two for you.

I'm in a 76' Warrior with three others. We're paying $150 a month in fixed costs and $17 hr, currently, dry to fly. The plane is hangared, one of the partners owns the hangar so we get a bit of a break there. The plane is well equipped and fun to fly.

 

[Marauder]

Lots of good advice on this thread. There will be a break even point of where owning may make more sense than renting. It will be a lot more than 2 to 3 hours per month. As others pointed out, owning really means you own all of the problems. Going to the airport to pick up a rental and finding out the DG is not working is a lot less painful than paying to have it fixed.

My main reason for ownership aside from the number of hours I flew each year, came down to scheduling and reliability. My first year after getting my PPL and before I got my instrument rating, I can't tell you the number of times the plane wasn't back from the previous renter, got stuck somewhere due to weather, was due for it's 100 hour or was broken. Owning usually means you know the status of the plane and it's condition. Being able to go to the airport on your schedule is a nice feeling -- but it does come with a price.


Sent using Tapatalk

 

[flyingron]

$2500 for insurance?
I'm with ya on the rest of it, but ...

I paid $600, including full hull, my first year in a Grumman Yankee as a low-time pilot.

Even my tail wheel RV was about half that for the first year.

Here, we're taking about the ubiquitous Cessna 152!

He's a ZERO time non-pilot and he's got another $10,000 in hull value on an average 152 compared to an average AA1. Ubiquity doesn't much figure into the rates on stated value polices such as airplanes.

 

[Kevin87]

Maybe a club might be a good option for me. I am in the west suburbs of Chicago. Anyone have any advice on clubs.

Again I have only been flying a year, so I am still trying to network with other pilots and figure this whole aviation thing out.

 

[bnt83]

Reducing costs in Cessna 150 vs 152

I think you can burn 87 octane car gas in the 150 with nothing more than a paperwork STC, meaning no physical modifications to the airplane. Many 150's for sale will already have it done.

To burn car gas in a 152, the engine needs piston replacement for 87 octane via an EAA STC or no piston replacement to burn 91 octane via the Peterson STC.

Note: The car gas must be ethanol-free, which is a problem in many states.

Definitions:

EAA = Experimental Aircraft Association

Mogas = car gas=auto fuel. Available at some airports. Check you local airports at www.airnav.com

STC = Supplemental Type Certificate, an FAA approval of an alteration to an airplane, in this case allowing the use of car gas of a specific minimum octane rating.

http://pure-gas.org/ can help you find ethanol-free gas

 

[Sac Arrow]

Maybe a club might be a good option for me. I am in the west suburbs of Chicago. Anyone have any advice on clubs.

Again I have only been flying a year, so I am still trying to network with other pilots and figure this whole aviation thing out.

Don't discount a partnership. I'm in a two way partnership in an Arrow, which makes the fixed costs less than a 152 owned outright. Depending on how much the Other Guys' fly (mine rarely does when I need the plane) you can have nearly the benefits of outright ownership.

Hangars are nice, if you can get affordable hangars. Here they're upwards of four hundred bucks a month. No return in my case.

 

[charheep]

Maybe a club might be a good option for me. I am in the west suburbs of Chicago. Anyone have any advice on clubs.

Again I have only been flying a year, so I am still trying to network with other pilots and figure this whole aviation thing out.

What airport? I have done my research and can narrow down the clubs for you if I know which airport. I fly out of DPA, but am familiar with Clow and Aurora.

 

[iflyvfr]

Kevin, you are a stone's throw from the Cessna 150-152 type club's annual flyin each year in Clinton, IA. They would welcome you with open arms and fill you up with a lot of information about both. Google the club.

A good friend has flown his 152 from Ohio to the Grand Canyon and back. We've been to Yellowstone, to Sun-n-Fun, and the Outer Banks. He in his 152, me in my 172. Once I'm done with grad school, we are seriously considering flying our birds and circumnavigating much of Texas. So, if a 152 is what you can afford, then low, slow & cheap is perfectly acceptable. Cuz for many of us, we'd rather be doing that than no flying at all.

As for insurance, you might check Wenk Aviation Insurance, they are in your neck of the woods. I just paid $499 for 38k hull insurance and some years less than that. I do have more hours but they have never been more than maybe $600/yr tops.

 

[Aviationlife]

It used to be the standard was 100hrs a year was where it became economically more beneficial to own than rent. There are more ephemeral benefits to ownership such as availability, knowledge of condition at last operation, ability to control quality of maintenance and avionics.



The primary cost reduction variable is your mechanical aptitude and available time to do the heavy and tedious labor yourself. If the answer to this is that you are of aptitude and means to do much/most of your own wrench turning, disassembly/reassembly stuff, you can always find an A&P-IA who will work with you at very reasonable terms.



In the 'Fixed Costs' category, a hangar is probably the highest value optional expense.



My last words on shopping planes, shop quality, not price. 152s are all so low priced now, paying top market of $30-$35k for an extremely nice, never been a trainer. The well equipped panel and low time engine that has spent it's life in a hangar as a well loved pancake breakfast plane for the last 35 years by the first owner who put 3500 hrs on it at an even 100 a year; that plane has 25 times the value in maintenance savings over the $12k, 42,000 hr plane from Dean's Flight School in Miami where the only time it sees the hangar is when it's getting repaired, so figure twice a month this thing took a bonk, and it's weathered more than one hurricane.



Shop for the best plane you can buy, and that value will pay off in spades.

You couldn't be more right about deans planes in tamiami!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AdamZ]

$2500 for insurance?
I'm with ya on the rest of it, but ...

I paid $600, including full hull, my first year in a Grumman Yankee as a low-time pilot.

Even my tail wheel RV was about half that for the first year.

Here, we're taking about the ubiquitous Cessna 152!

I'm thinking you're a prime candidate to be part of a flying club / co-ownership arrangement.

I got into a good one that has two aircraft (www.metroflyersclub.com) and it is very affordable, both on cost of entry, dues, and rental costs. Plus other ongoing costs are "managed" for me.

What part of the country do you reside in? We may have a recommendation or two for you.

I'm in agreement with both Liz and Mikes comments.

He's a ZERO time non-pilot and he's got another $10,000 in hull value on an average 152 compared to an average AA1. Ubiquity doesn't much figure into the rates on stated value polices such as airplanes.

Ron the OP is not a zero time pilot.

 

[Bill]

You'll have to inquire about insurance, expect on the order of $2500/year.

On a 150/2?

We pay $1300 total full hull $1M smooth on a fast retract with three named insured.

 

[James331]

I took a different path than some here have advised. When I purchased a 150 to use as a trainer, I bought a 400 hr SMOH basic ugly but mechanically sound 1969 J model. I parked it outside where the tie down was free. I paid something like 14k, flew it for a couple years and sold it for about the same. We had a couple annuals in that time of around $400 each. We had minimal additional maintenance such as a few tire changes. We had AOPA insurance of around $700 annually. It burned what around 5 gph at around $5.50 per gal.
I would not buy another other than a trainer. It was inefficient as a cross country machine both in time and fuel burn. My RV and Lancair get there in half the time at around half the fuel consumption.
I would choose the 150 over the 152 though due to cost difference.

Exactly, maybe keep it in a hangar if you're planning on keeping it for a while.