I have a felony conviction question concerning medical certificate

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Hello, I was wondering if someone could help me out with some advice. .
19 years ago I went to prison for armed robbery. I and 3 other kids robbed a drug dealer for his marijuana. I was 17 years old at the time. I did a lot of stupid things at that point in my life. I grew up and became a productive citizen & a good natured human being many years ago. I'm just an ordinary person like the rest of you, living an ordinary life. If we had met outside of you knowing all this, you wouldn't even believe that I’ve been in prison before. I've seen it over and over again.
I’ve logged 14 or 15 hours of flight time over the last 2 months. I was excited, getting ready to solo! I went for my 3rd class medical physical today and the doctor couldn’t give me a medical certificate due to my criminal history? He told me that I’m supposed to elaborate in detail, step by step of what exactly happened during the crime . . .
Is this right? I’ve never been asked to do something like this. It really bothers me, almost to the point that I don’t want to be apart of this anymore. It doesn’t seem right & I’m not use to this sort of treatment. I checked into this prior to taking any flight lessons. I was told that as long as I hadn’t been in trouble with-in 1 year, I’d be fine.
I surely appreciate any information that you can give me on this. Thank you for your time, Sincerely
 
Follow the ME's instructions and explain the facts in detail. Disclose everything in a letter of explanation, attach the letter to the application and the ME will send it in.

Like Adam said, the best advice I can give is get a pardon and get it behind you.

Don't give up now. Keep us posted.
 
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Geico266 said:
Follow the ME's instructions and explain the facts in detail. Disclose everything in a letter of explanation, attach the letter to the application and the ME will send it in.

Like ADAM said, the best advice I can give is get a pardon and get it behind you.

Don't give up now. Keep us posted.
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Fixed that for ya.
 
Unregistered said:
<snip>robbed a drug dealer for his marijuana</snip>
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I'm thinking any drug use will also need to be explained.

Long story short, flying is a privilege that puts the lives of others, even strangers, into the pilot's hands whenever they exercise that privilege. It is a very exclusive group and one of the best things about it is that we have all passed the scrutiny of highly critical observers.
 
While I'm no softie when it comes to crime, it bothers me that a person who turned their life around must be forever haunted by a conviction record that denies them the opportunity to make a life for themselves. It seems like such a system pushes an ex-con back into the criminal lifestyle rather than helps them rise above it. This applies mainly to getting a good career going, but also things like getting a pilots license. I just wanted to say that and best of luck to you, follow the good advice you'll get here, i.e., working with the ME and providing a thorough description of what happened and putting your best foot forward. They need to be very sure that you've put all this behavior behind you as you have described, since it would be a safety risk to you and other pilots.
 
AuntPeggy said:
I'm thinking any drug use will also need to be explained.
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I'm wondering if the fact that it was a drug-related offense is the main problem since I know people with other kinds of juvenile convictions who are pilots.
 
If you jump through the hoops, I'm reasonably sure you'll get your medical certificate. And then you shouldn't have to go through this again. Drug use, any drug use, is a red flag that must be reviewed before they issue you a certificate.

As a convicted felon, you will end up having to explain this stuff whenever you apply for certain jobs or for certain privileges in our society.

Please stick with it - it will be worth it.

I'm not sure a pardon would make this go away, depending on how the question is worded on the medical form.
 
AuntPeggy said:
It is a very exclusive group and one of the best things about it is that we have all passed the scrutiny of highly critical observers.
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You're kidding, right? One of the best things about being a pilot is that I got the approval of an AME and the FAA? Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of being a pilot and the things I've done in airplanes but the exclusivity afforded by a medical cert. isn't one of them. The guy in the following NTSB report that killed himself over this past Christmas had a student pilot's certificate and he's a Darwin award winner if I've ever seen one in aviation:

NTSB Identification: ERA10FA099
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, December 24, 2009 in Heflin, AL
Aircraft: PIPER PA-28-140, registration: N1277T
Injuries: 1 Fatal.​

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.


On December 24, 2009, approximately 2200 central standard time (CST), a Piper PA-28-140, N1277T, was substantially damaged when it impacted terrain in Heflin, Alabama. The student pilot was fatally injured. Marginal visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The personal flight originated at St. Clair County Airport (PLR), Pell City, Alabama and was destined for Cobb County-McCollum Field (RYY), Atlanta, Georgia. The flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.

Preliminary information provided by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Lockheed Martin Flight Service revealed the pilot did not obtain a weather briefing or file a flight plan.

According to the pilot's family, the purpose of his flight was to visit his girlfriend in Atlanta. The pilot had originally planned the flight for the following day, but decided to fly on the night prior instead.

When the airplane did not land at its destination, the family notified authorities and an Alert Notice (ALNOT) was issued by the FAA. Search and rescue was initiated, and the airplane was located in the Talladega National Forest on December 25, 2009, around 1600 CST.

The airplane impacted rising terrain, in a heavily wooded area, at an elevation of 1,244 feet. The airplane came to rest, upright, oriented downslope on a heading of 120 degrees magnetic. The terrain inclined at approximately 35 degrees. All components of the airplane were located in a compact area, there was no wreckage path, and trees in the surrounding vicinity were not disturbed.

The forward cabin displayed severe crushing and was compressed aft from the instrument panel to the aft bulkhead area.

The firewall, engine, and propeller were buried in the ground just forward of the fuselage structure and were not visible.

The throttle and mixture control levers were observed in the full forward position. The altimeter displayed 960 feet, and 29.60 was set in the Kohlsman window. The airspeed indicator displayed 190 miles per hour (160 knots), the vertical speed indicator displayed a 750 foot-per-minute descent, the magnetic compass indicated 090 degree heading, and the VOR was set to 090 degrees.

Both wings remained attached to the fuselage at their forward wing root attachment points. The leading edges of both wings displayed symmetrical aft crushing. Both wing fuel tanks were breached and their fuel tank caps secured.

The empennage remained attached to the fuselage, and little to no damage was observed to the vertical fin, rudder, or stabilator.

Flight control continuity was confirmed from the cockpit area to the respective flight controls. Both flaps appeared to be in the retracted position.

The pilot held a third-class medical and student pilot certificate, issued on November 6, 2009. At that time he reported 6 hours of total flight experience.

The pilot's logbook was located in the airplane. Examination of the logbook revealed the first entry was for a flight on October 30, 2009. Entries continued until the last entry which was for a flight from PLR to ASN on December 25, 2009, the day after the accident. According to the logbook the pilot had accumulated 25 hours of total flight experience, all of which were in the previous 2 months. He had accumulated 6.5 hours of night experience, all with an instructor.

According to the logbook, the pilot completed his first solo flight on December 20, 2009 and his second solo flight on December 23, 2009, both in the traffic pattern at PLR.

The pilot had an endorsement in his logbook for solo flight within 25 miles of Talladega Municipal Airport (ASN), Talladega, Alabama. The endorsement included the following limitations: wind 10 knots, crosswind less than 6 knots, cloud ceiling 2,300 feet, and visibility greater than 6 miles.

The pilot did not have an instructor's endorsement for a cross-country flight. According to the pilot's instructor, the pilot had not received any cross-country flight training.

According to documents in the airplane, the pilot purchased the airplane on December 23, 2009.

Examination of recorded weather provided by an Automated Weather Observing System (AWOS) at PLR, the weather at 2120 included wind from 110 degrees at 11 knots gusting to 17 knots, visibility 5 miles, few clouds at 200 feet, a broken cloud ceiling at 1,600 feet, and an overcast cloud ceiling at 3,000 feet.

At 1930 the weather included wind from 100 degrees at 10 knots gusting to 20 knots, visibility 6 miles, a broken clouds ceiling at 1,800 feet and 2,800 feet.

At 1940 the weather included wind from 100 degrees at 12 knots gusting to 20 knots, visibility 5 miles, few clouds at 100 feet, a broken cloud ceiling at 1,600 feet, and an overcast cloud ceiling at 4,200 feet.

The weather reported at Anniston Municipal Airport (ANB), Anniston, Alabama, 13 nautical miles southwest of the accident site, at 2053, included wind from 100 degrees at 17 knots, gusting to 24 knots, 4 miles visibility with rain and mist, and a broken cloud ceiling at 1,900 feet.

At 2153, weather at ANB included wind from 110 degrees at 11 knots gusting to 19 knots, 4 miles visibility with rain and mist, and scattered clouds at 1,700 feet.

At 2253, weather at ANB included wind from 110 degrees at 15 knots gusting to 25 knots, 2 ½ miles visibility with rain and mist, and scattered clouds at 1,600 feet.

The weather reported at RYY, the pilot's destination, at 2050, included wind from 100 degrees at 17 knots gusting to 27 knots, 10 miles visibility, a broken cloud ceiling at 2,000 feet, and an overcast cloud ceiling at 9,000 feet.

At 2148, the weather at RYY included wind from 110 degrees at 18 knots gusting to 30 knots, visibility 7 miles with light rain, and an overcast cloud ceiling at 1,600 feet.
 
jstro said:
While I'm no softie when it comes to crime, it bothers me that a person who turned their life around must be forever haunted by a conviction record that denies them the opportunity to make a life for themselves. It seems like such a system pushes an ex-con back into the criminal lifestyle rather than helps them rise above it. This applies mainly to getting a good career going, but also things like getting a pilots license. I just wanted to say that and best of luck to you, follow the good advice you'll get here, i.e., working with the ME and providing a thorough description of what happened and putting your best foot forward. They need to be very sure that you've put all this behavior behind you as you have described, since it would be a safety risk to you and other pilots.
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+1...
 
The good news is you weren't foolish enough to hide this. The bad news is that it's a problem. If you've signed a truthful medical application, the situation is salvageable. You want to get advice from Dr. Bruce Chien, who visits here often. You can also PM him through this site -- his member name is "bbchien."
 
I sure appreciate everyone’s advice and time. Thank you all. I will follow through all the procedures and see it through. If they grant me it, it will be yet another accomplishment under my belt. “Peggy,” I like how you put this, “It is a very exclusive group and one of the best things about it is that we have all passed the scrutiny of highly critical observers.” I hope to join all of you in the near future. I’ve actually been working on an Executive Clemency for Pardon from the Governor. I had to write a short Biography of my life so far. Maybe I will attach that as well. You guys were all helpful and nice. Have yourself a great year!
 
Thanks Cap'n Ron. I will look for him. Everything is truthful, I never lie
 
He didn't waste much time doing his new (to him) plane in. :eek:

PittsDriver said:
You're kidding, right? One of the best things about being a pilot is that I got the approval of an AME and the FAA? Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of being a pilot and the things I've done in airplanes but the exclusivity afforded by a medical cert. isn't one of them. The guy in the following NTSB report that killed himself over this past Christmas had a student pilot's certificate and he's a Darwin award winner if I've ever seen one in aviation:

.​
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​
 
PittsDriver said:
You're kidding, right? One of the best things about being a pilot is that I got the approval of an AME and the FAA? Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of being a pilot and the things I've done in airplanes but the exclusivity afforded by a medical cert. isn't one of them. The guy in the following NTSB report that killed himself over this past Christmas had a student pilot's certificate and he's a Darwin award winner if I've ever seen one in aviation:
Click to expand...
While a medical certificate may for most operations be a necessary condition for being a safe and legal pilot, it is not a sufficient condition. Ditto a DL for non-medical-certificate Sport Pilots -- necessary, but not necessarily sufficient.
 
steingar said:
Of course, if a medical has not been disallowed the OP could go the Sport Pilot route.
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Did he make it clear if it was denied or defferred?

To the OP, I wish you well. If that was almost two decades ago and you have been out of trouble that long...I, for one, applaud you for learning and growing. The challenge the AME presented you is legit and expected. You have received bad information about the "more than one year ago thing".
 
Kelvin said:
Did he make it clear if it was denied or defferred?
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Sure sounded that way. I wonder what the FAA's stance on past criminal issues is vis a vis going the Sport Pilot route -- it's not exactly a medical condition that a physician can say is OK to fly with. Perhaps Bruce knows.
 
Ron, I was wondering which one...Denied or defferred?

Dr. Chien, can an AME deny a medical in the office?

Ron Levy said:
Sure sounded that way. I wonder what the FAA's stance on past criminal issues is vis a vis going the Sport Pilot route -- it's not exactly a medical condition that a physician can say is OK to fly with. Perhaps Bruce knows.
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Kelvin said:
Ron, I was wondering which one...Denied or defferred?

Dr. Chien, can an AME deny a medical in the office?
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He can. And if he does, the denial letter from FAA follows in about 60 days, including what if any, the airman can do to appeal.

I have only issued an outright denial once. It was for manic depressive diease. It was upheld.
 
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bbchien said:
He can. And if he does, the denial letter from FAA follow in about 60 days, including what if any, the airman can do to appeal.

I have only issued an outright denial once. It was for manic depressive diease. It was upheld.
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Can you as an ME deign a medical for the felony conviction or is that something the FAA does later?
 
Does a felony conviction mean to the FAA that the person is not of "good moral character" and would not then meet the requirement of the FARs 61.153?

I guess an even broader question is just what does a "good moral character" mean to the FAA?
 
Given what the OP said about the AME wanting more documentation, it sounds like the application was deferred. If so, that ends the non-medical-certificate Sport Pilot option just as much as a denial.
 
PittsDriver said:
NTSB Identification: ERA10FA099
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, December 24, 2009 in Heflin, AL
Aircraft: PIPER PA-28-140, registration: N1277T
Injuries: 1 Fatal.​
Click to expand...

Wow...so this guy was a student pilot, no X-country training, in a plane he bought two days before?

Damn...what the hell was he thinking?
 
wsuffa said:
+2. We have become more and more a "one-strike" society. The vast majority of employers run background checks now, and a mere arrest can be disqualifying for some.
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We have some clients that have demanded that we not hire, or utilize on their accounts, anyone with a felony.

As a former LEO I can say that a felony today is the not the felony of yesterday. You can get felonies for stuff that many would be like "really? for that?".

We reserve the right to review the criminal history and make a determination as to the relevance of it based on timeframe, act, age, etc.
 
tdager said:
We have some clients that have demanded that we not hire, or utilize on their accounts, anyone with a felony.

As a former LEO I can say that a felony today is the not the felony of yesterday. You can get felonies for stuff that many would be like "really? for that?".

We reserve the right to review the criminal history and make a determination as to the relevance of it based on timeframe, act, age, etc.
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Beyond that, even Canada considers a criminal record to be cause to deny entry. So, even having a misdemeanor can make travel to other countries impossible (or expensive as Canada has a 'rehabilitation' system that costs $$$).

In all fairness, the US also has admissibility restrictions to those who have criminal records. (As does the UK and other countries).
 
"Did he make it clear if it was denied or defferred?" He didn't say either. I don't believe it was denied. He just told me that we need more information first for the FAA before he can grant me a Mediacal Cert
 
Armed robbery was still a pretty big time felony even in the old days. I personally would hope that a 2 decades old history of lawbreaking would not obviate the OP's desire for flight. I have little doubt that in all that time his debt to society is well paid.
 
steingar said:
Armed robbery was still a pretty big time felony even in the old days. I personally would hope that a 2 decades old history of lawbreaking would not obviate the OP's desire for flight. I have little doubt that in all that time his debt to society is well paid.
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See #22 below. This is FROM THE FAA.


You can be a convicted felon and hold a certificate unless it is one the thing TSA says you can't do. The FAA says even if you are convicted you must mark the block on the application. One year from the conviction and you can apply for a certificate. The TSA 1544.229 rule states the following:

Disqualifying criminal offenses. An individual has a disqualifying criminal offense if the individual has been convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of the disqualifying crimes listed in this paragraph in any jurisdiction during the 10 years before the date of the individual's application for authority to perform covered functions, or while the individual has authority to perform covered functions. The disqualifying criminal offenses are as follows:

(1) Forgery of certificates, false marking of aircraft, and other aircraft registration violation; 49 U.S.C. 46306.
(2) Interference with air navigation; 49 U.S.C. 46308.
(3) Improper transportation of a hazardous material; 49 U.S.C. 46312.
(4) Aircraft piracy; 49 U.S.C. 46502.
(5) Interference with flight crew members or flight attendants; 49 U.S.C. 46504.
(6) Commission of certain crimes aboard aircraft in flight; 49 U.S.C. 46506.
(7) Carrying a weapon or explosive aboard aircraft; 49 U.S.C. 46505.
(8) Conveying false information and threats; 49 U.S.C. 46507.
(9) Aircraft piracy outside the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States; 49 U.S.C. 46502(b).
(10) Lighting violations involving transporting controlled substances; 49 U.S.C. 46315.
(11) Unlawful entry into an aircraft or airport area that serves air carriers or foreign air carriers contrary to established security requirements; 49 U.S.C. 46314.
(12) Destruction of an aircraft or aircraft facility; 18 U.S.C. 32.
(13) Murder.
(14) Assault with intent to murder.
(15) Espionage.
(16) Sedition.
(17) Kidnapping or hostage taking.
(18) Treason.
(19) Rape or aggravated sexual abuse.
(20) Unlawful possession, use, sale, distribution, or manufacture of an explosive or weapon.
(21) Extortion.
(22) Armed or felony unarmed robbery.
(23) Distribution of, or intent to distribute, a controlled substance.
(24) Felony arson.
(25) Felony involving a threat.
(26) Felony involving --
(i) Willful destruction of property;
(ii) Importation or manufacture of a controlled substance;
(iii) Burglary;
(iv) Theft;
(v) Dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation;
(vi) Possession or distribution of stolen property;
(vii) Aggravated assault;
(viii) Bribery; or
(ix) Illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.
 
How is the FAA forgiveness record after the ten years historically?

The OP says it was nineteen years ago.
 
If I'm reading that correctly the OP is all right being 20 years out from his felony conviction.
 
I'd just reiterate what was said about a deferral disqualifying one from pursuing the sport pilot certificate, because if you don't provide the requested information (e.g. the letter of explanation), it becomes a denial fro failure to provide required information, even if it would have been approvable. And you have a relatively short period in which to provide the information, so waiting for the pardon to come through isn't feasible. Good luck. It looks to me as if it should be possible to succeed.
 
We have an SI pathway for some of these that involves the passage of time with a clean record, a psychiatric assessment and certified copies of your current history of Law Enforcement actions (note that's a stiffer standard than convictions) and Driver's Lisc. standards. Credit records have been required in the past as well.

But I can't speak for the AFS 1 as to the ability to hold a PILOT certificate. That's a different bunch 'o guys.
 
The TSA list Bruce quoted above applies only to working for air carriers, not personal flying, and does not directly affect issuance of an FAA pilot certificate.
 
How much time would you say i have to gather the required documents, mainly the psychiatric assessment?
 
gbreese said:
How much time would you say i have to gather the required documents, mainly the psychiatric assessment?
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All within a 90 day period prior to the application. From our discussions I'll bet you can do it. But the psych eval is fairly pricey. $1,600 in my neck of the woods and you can't use insurance.

It doesn't matter if they deny you this round. You'll just apply again when you have it all ready.
 
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