I hate modern hiring practices of some companies

flhrci

flhrci

Final Approach
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Jan 26, 2007
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Groveport, OH
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Display name:
David
I have been unemployed for just a touch over 2 months now and have filled out many online applications for various jobs that I reasonably thought I could get that don't require tons of training or special education.

I am a part-time CFI and cannot live on it nor can I move for a better CFI job due to family issues.

About 45 minutes ago I got done applying to Time Warner Cable for a Field Technician position. I was a cable installer for another company in 2008-2009 so I thought I would have no issues getting hired. I spent over an hour and probably 30 mins or so doing the online application and their assessment tests. 15 mins or so after I was done I got an email saying they were not going to consider me any further and there were others more qualified. It also said it was an automated email. At 1930 hours, I am quite sure no human even looked at my app.

Rewind about a month and a half ago. I applied to the post office for a mindless sorter operator job that was even seasonal. After three or so hours of assessments, I was informed via automated email that I was not qualified and could not retake the tests for 6 months.

Every time there is some type of assessment I do not qualify and am not told why. These "tests" always say they have no right or wrong answers generally. I am not sure what I am doing wrong but each and every time I apply and get rejected this way, I feel even more devalued as a human being.

My Veteran status and Bachelor's degree don't matter either. I have a degree in Aviation Management and jobs I should be able to get into want 3-5 years of experience. I have found lately that nearly half of the entry level jobs I see in any job title want 6 months to a year of experience. So even entry-level is not entry-level.

It looks like all I can get is fast food or a crap warehouse job for the rest of my life. I was working at Fedex Express as a courier and lost my job there for stupid reasons that were my fault. I was just starting to feel some sense of security and moved out of my Mom's house and bought a new motorcycle this past summer. I guess I will be punished for this for the rest of my life. I cannot wait to checkout at the end. Even oblivion has to be better than how people treat each other in this country. I am 43 so I have a long time to suffer yet.

No this is not a suicide note, just FYI. I just need to rant some.

I cannot afford to rent my apartment after January and I will be exhausting my savings soon as I did not qualify for unemployment. I will have no choice but to move back in with my Mom for the 3rd time and quit paying certain bills and trash my credit.

Most of the last 8 years since I have been out of the Navy have been miserable going from one job to the next and going to college and flying for a living. The 2008 economy was when I got my CFI and it kept me from making it work by nearly bankrupting me.

Those of you that are well off should be thankful. There is a crowd of old pilots that I see occasionally at the airport where I teach that are so full of themselves, prejudiced and financially well-off that they take their lives for granted and ***** about everything going on in the world and that they are the solution to all the country's problems. They talk about flying their airplanes but let them sit while I have to get people to pay me to fly so that I can do so.

So far, it looks like Social Security, if it is there for me when I turn 67, will be plenty of money for me to live on based on today's dollars. But I have to suffer till then.

Done ranting now.

David
 
Sucks dude. Kill your debt man, it is the only way. Those old guys have no idea they won the lottery by being born when and where they did. Then they trashed the country for everyone else. Anyway the only way forward is to live debt free, make a billion spend less then a billion, go John Galt live below your EBT card limit. Simple.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Sucks dude. Kill your debt man, it is the only way. Those old guys have no idea they won the lottery by being born when and where they did. Then they trashed the country for everyone else. Anyway the only way forward is to live debt free, make a billion spend less then a billion, go John Galt live below your EBT card limit. Simple.
Click to expand...

I have been trying to work down my debt for years now and still have over $30k to pay off in pilot licenses. This is the second time I will have gone down the drain in the last 8 years. Paid off some bils but I am about to get behind again.

David
 
I'd say target smaller businesses where they're still small enough that all the HR is done by one person. Less likely you'll be dealing with automation.

If you have no choice but to apply online, fill up your resume with keywords that will trigger a computer to forward you to a human.
 
Places that use online assessment programs are the places that get so many applicants that they can afford to set the passing criteria very high. Almost certainly a waste of time even for the people who could pass that initial hurdle.

I agree with cowman - go check out the small places. The ones that literally have to hang a "Help Wanted" sign in their window.

Do what you have to do. No shame in any of it so long as you stay honest and moral.
 
flhrci said:
I have been unemployed for just a touch over 2 months now...........

I applied to the post office for a mindless sorter operator job that was even seasonal. ...........

My Veteran status.........

David
Click to expand...

WOW... You are a Vet and didn't get hired by the USPS....:yikes::yikes::yikes:


Hang in there.. Something will come along shortly...:yes:
 
Stay positive. Don't feel helpless in your situation, you do have the power to change it. Keep looking and applying. You may have to switch your mission (job field) for a little bit until you get what you want. Just stay positive. As long as you have life you'll have options and opportunities. No more of that checking out stuff.
 
You have to hang in there,or change jobs. Find a charter company ,build some time ,and move on up. Good luck.
 
I know someone stuck in a similar situation. It sucks unless you know somebody.
 
I would say the pilot market is opening up. Lots of movement these days.
 
Well, as a qualified 'old guy' coming up on 60, I have to take a bit of offence at the lottery deal. At 14 I was a tire changer in a small shop in SoCal. My summers were spent changing truck tires, shocks and stuff in 100F heat. Winters were no better in the rain when people came in for new tires cause the old ones were baldino. When that job folded, I moved 'up' in the world at 16 to tire recapper. Now this was the j-o-b, I tell you. Still 100F heat, now add molten tire rubber, toxic glue, and big pnuematic machines that didn't know the difference between a tire bead and a finger. It would grind either one with the same relish. I joined the army to move UP in the world again, spent my 4.5 years in the big green machine and started college at 21. Oh yeah, I didn't mention that the GI Bill only paid a small part of my tuition and fees, so I worked nights as a recording tech to get through eng school.

Cry me a ****ing river you little ****s. Oh, and you wanna talk about crappy flying jobs? well, how about towing banners and gliders for free! Just so I could build time, zero pay and only hours in the logbook. Lets see how many letters you can get on the banner today, and tow it down the beach at 501' in 90F weather. Yeah - tell me how bad you got it, on your big Harley. I was driving a 67 Fiat 850, and then I got a 71 Pinto. Woohoo!

I got your rant, right here.
 
Everskyward said:
I would say the pilot market is opening up. Lots of movement these days.
Click to expand...

Just in my little part of the company, we've lost 3 pilots as Delta new hires this year. Two of them in the last month. We've also had 4 American recalls earlier this year.

That means the bottom dwelling jobs are opening up.
 
cowman said:
I'd say target smaller businesses where they're still small enough that all the HR is done by one person. Less likely you'll be dealing with automation.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree.

One if the things I hated most about the corporate world was their obsession with testing ("screening") applicants. This sort of psychobabble nonsense meant that we were always hiring the same kind of drones.

Stop applying at mega-corps, and go apply at a business the size of mine, where my wife Mary is "HR" and I am "management". We would hire you in a heartbeat, and so will others.
 
flhrci said:
I have been unemployed for just a touch over 2 months now and have filled out many online applications for various jobs that I reasonably thought I could get that don't require tons of training or special education.

I am a part-time CFI and cannot live on it nor can I move for a better CFI job due to family issues.

About 45 minutes ago I got done applying to Time Warner Cable for a Field Technician position. I was a cable installer for another company in 2008-2009 so I thought I would have no issues getting hired. I spent over an hour and probably 30 mins or so doing the online application and their assessment tests. 15 mins or so after I was done I got an email saying they were not going to consider me any further and there were others more qualified. It also said it was an automated email. At 1930 hours, I am quite sure no human even looked at my app.

Rewind about a month and a half ago. I applied to the post office for a mindless sorter operator job that was even seasonal. After three or so hours of assessments, I was informed via automated email that I was not qualified and could not retake the tests for 6 months.

Every time there is some type of assessment I do not qualify and am not told why. These "tests" always say they have no right or wrong answers generally. I am not sure what I am doing wrong but each and every time I apply and get rejected this way, I feel even more devalued as a human being.

My Veteran status and Bachelor's degree don't matter either. I have a degree in Aviation Management and jobs I should be able to get into want 3-5 years of experience. I have found lately that nearly half of the entry level jobs I see in any job title want 6 months to a year of experience. So even entry-level is not entry-level.

It looks like all I can get is fast food or a crap warehouse job for the rest of my life. I was working at Fedex Express as a courier and lost my job there for stupid reasons that were my fault. I was just starting to feel some sense of security and moved out of my Mom's house and bought a new motorcycle this past summer. I guess I will be punished for this for the rest of my life. I cannot wait to checkout at the end. Even oblivion has to be better than how people treat each other in this country. I am 43 so I have a long time to suffer yet.

No this is not a suicide note, just FYI. I just need to rant some.

I cannot afford to rent my apartment after January and I will be exhausting my savings soon as I did not qualify for unemployment. I will have no choice but to move back in with my Mom for the 3rd time and quit paying certain bills and trash my credit.

Most of the last 8 years since I have been out of the Navy have been miserable going from one job to the next and going to college and flying for a living. The 2008 economy was when I got my CFI and it kept me from making it work by nearly bankrupting me.

Those of you that are well off should be thankful. There is a crowd of old pilots that I see occasionally at the airport where I teach that are so full of themselves, prejudiced and financially well-off that they take their lives for granted and ***** about everything going on in the world and that they are the solution to all the country's problems. They talk about flying their airplanes but let them sit while I have to get people to pay me to fly so that I can do so.

So far, it looks like Social Security, if it is there for me when I turn 67, will be plenty of money for me to live on based on today's dollars. But I have to suffer till then.

Done ranting now.

David
Click to expand...

Suck it up buttercup, keep your nose to the grindstone and keep applying. Many applications is several to many dozen a week, I sense from what you wrote you aren't even close to that.

You write well and from your post it seems you are at the least reasonably intelligent. That beats more than half the population. Have someone who knows what they are doing look at your resume and follow their suggestions, make it perfect. Keep applying for jobs and pick some that seem like a reach for you when you apply. Confidence and perseverance will serve you well. Two months looking for a job is not that long.

Most of those who are well off did not get there by accepting defeat, rather they roll with the punches then punch back. Don't be a drama queen, just get it done, seriously, determination, patience, maybe a little resume overhaul and be confident, reach a little. I think you will do well.
 
OT Fiat 850

docmirror said:
I was driving a 67 Fiat 850, and then I got a 71 Pinto.
Click to expand...

I drove a '71 Fiat 850 sedan back when I was in high school for a while. It was my dad's commuter car. Had a top speed of 60 mph downhill with a tailwind if you had a long enough road to let it build up to speed with the pedal floored (or hand throttle pulled all the way out). It did get 55 mpg on the highway which was unheard of in 1978 :D
 
flhrci said:
I have been unemployed for just a touch over 2 months now and have filled out many online applications for various jobs that I reasonably thought I could get that don't require tons of training or special education.

I am a part-time CFI and cannot live on it nor can I move for a better CFI job due to family issues.

David
Click to expand...

First off please tell me none of my tax dollars paid for that education.

Second if you're unwilling to move, you're unwilling to be employed as a low time pilot, this is something most people figure out ether before they start training, or well before they earn their CPL.

You need to print some resumes and travel to where ever will give you that first flying job, bring your family, or don't, but that's how you get anywhere in this, and many other, industries. Again something that should have been covered by one of your instructors, a professor, or the millitary.

Jobs don't come to people, people need to go to where the work is.
 
I am always looking for good people in sales, if you can teach someone to fly, surely you can sell them a car! It's nit a hard business, just takes effort to study the brand, time to spend with the customers and good follow up. I get very few decent applicants per month, so try your local car dealerships that are privately owned. The public ones will likely have the same screening that you've been through. Even if it isn't sales, you can work as a porter, $10-15 per hour moving cars and helping customers, just show up ready to work and somebody will hire you! Remember at least 30% of car dealers own airplanes! :D
 
ClimbnSink said:
Those old guys have no idea they won the lottery by being born when and where they did. Then they trashed the country for everyone else.
Click to expand...

I find this offensive.

When I hear the stories of the "old guys" that hang out at my airport, I'd hardly call it winning the lottery, and I'm sure, neither would they.
I look up to a few of them as role models, and wish I could work as hard as they had to.

Just what do you mean by "trashed the country", and how are they responsible?
 
flhrci said:
I have been unemployed for just a touch over 2 months now and have filled out many online applications for various jobs that I reasonably thought I could get that don't require tons of training or special education.


Done ranting now.

David
Click to expand...

OK, Dave - you want guaranteed employment? On Jan 5th I want you standing tall at either the Midland TX work force commission, or the Williston ND dept of labor. You need to be standing on two good feet, have two working hands, and moderately decent health. I gar-on-damn-tee you will be hired within a week. Forget about the sending out resumes via the internet, you know you aren't gonna get any jobs sitting on your couch.

Go there, be pleasant, be ready to work hard and you will be amply rewarded. Oh - if you go to ND, take a coat, a big one and some gloves and a decent hat.
 
Good luck with your search.

I do note that you lost your most recent job due to "stupid reasons that were [your] fault". I'm sure you recognize this but you cannot do that. You need to latch onto a job and make yourself the most valuable employee in the entire organization. Then get your ass moving up the ladder within that organization or use it as a stepping stone to your next job.

I'll divulge some personal info that I don't usually share, much less on a public forum. I had a bright future when I graduated from high school and was accepted -- with flying colors -- to Georgia Tech. A lack of self discipline and maturity caused me to completely and utterly squander that opportunity for a bunch of years. I found myself living back at home and feeling pretty sorry for myself. I earned my AA at a local community college and applied at a local independent insurance agency. The job opening they had was file clerk. The guy who hired me said I was completely overqualified. I told him that was ok, I wanted a job. Within 5 years I was a licensed insurance agent and Vice President of the organization. I did it by attempting to be the best employee they ever had, and working to make such an impression that the thought of me leaving the organization was painful to my bosses. I am by no means wealthy but I am doing fine, and I grow my income every year without fail. And my desire to learn and grow has increased voraciously. I only wish it had done so when I was in college.

I agree with the suggestions to find a small business, hopefully one with room for growth, and be the most valuable employee they've ever had. It's not a guarantee, but it goes a long way.
 
Read Mr. Sechrest's post. Read it again. Many parallels in my life, and sometimes you have to overcome your own poor choices.

Couple of other suggestions: we have a desperate shortage of competent labor in construction (and I mean, entry level); plus, sounds like you could have aptitudes and skills which would lend themselves to electrical work. Apprentices make good money, training paid for by the employer and, in three years, you own a skill that is perpetually marketable everywhere.

Virtually none of my clients went to college (except if they built it), and I call them, "boss."

A year from now, you'll be (God willing) a year older. Whatcha gonna do with it?
 
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OP: first, it takes being in a job to get a job. No s***, pizza delivery is a job. Do your best, do what's right even when no one is looking. Network that job into something else. CFI when you can and network the crap out of that into a better opportunity. Or, use your Commercial and ferry planes by putting an ad in barnstormers and networking.

BL: STFU, work hard to build opportunities. You are not above any job in the position you are in and you can turn any job into the next. I went from selling carpet to tools to managing a furniture store to the AF. When I'm done in the next year and a half, I don't know what I'll do, but it sure as hell won't be b****ing about not being able to earn some money by working my a** off.

I'm sure this is pretty cold, but you are in the drivers seat and you're not driving right now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
docmirror said:
Well, as a qualified 'old guy' coming up on 60, I have to take a bit of offence at the lottery deal. At 14 I was a tire changer in a small shop in SoCal. My summers were spent changing truck tires, shocks and stuff in 100F heat. Winters were no better in the rain when people came in for new tires cause the old ones were baldino. When that job folded, I moved 'up' in the world at 16 to tire recapper. Now this was the j-o-b, I tell you. Still 100F heat, now add molten tire rubber, toxic glue, and big pnuematic machines that didn't know the difference between a tire bead and a finger. It would grind either one with the same relish. I joined the army to move UP in the world again, spent my 4.5 years in the big green machine and started college at 21. Oh yeah, I didn't mention that the GI Bill only paid a small part of my tuition and fees, so I worked nights as a recording tech to get through eng school.

Cry me a ****ing river you little ****s. Oh, and you wanna talk about crappy flying jobs? well, how about towing banners and gliders for free! Just so I could build time, zero pay and only hours in the logbook. Lets see how many letters you can get on the banner today, and tow it down the beach at 501' in 90F weather. Yeah - tell me how bad you got it, on your big Harley. I was driving a 67 Fiat 850, and then I got a 71 Pinto. Woohoo!

I got your rant, right here.
Click to expand...

Geez, don't hold back. Say what you really mean!

Although I must admit, I also found myself reminiscing about my big lottery win, which happened to be when I was 9 and got a job working in the shipping department of a sweatshop in Brooklyn. That's not something most people would feel lucky about, but I do.

The boss was a very decent fellow named Charlie, but he did work me hard. I basically shipped coats to retailers and distributors, which meant pulling the coats from the racks in the warehouse based on the order slips, loading them into boxes, piling the boxes onto pallets, weighing them, preparing the shipping documents, and moving the pallets to the shipping dock with a pallet jack.

The trucks arrived somewhere between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m., so it was pretty fast-paced work. I started out just fetching the coats for Charlie, but before long I was doing the whole operation by myself. I was kind of a hyper kid, lol. Charlie would help when we had a lot of coats to be shipped, but most of the time I got the orders out myself.

Charlie started me $2.00 / hour, which was very generous at the time. It was well above minimum wage. Plus there were no deductions because I was paid in cash, of course. On days when I worked especially hard to get the orders out, Charlie would throw in a few bucks extra; and on days when there were no orders to ship, he'd pay me to sweep up the place, sort papers, or do whatever other busywork he could come up with. He paid me in cash out of his pocket at the end of every shift. I have no idea whether he got reimbursed for it.

Charlie also gave me raises pretty frequently. By the time the factory closed its doors less than a year later, I was making $3.00 / hour, which was about double the minimum wage. He also paid me extra and bought me lunch when I worked on Saturdays.

Some people find this story horrifying. I mean, I was 9 and working in a sweatshop. But I have only warm memories about it. Charlie was a good guy who treated me kindly and paid me well by the standards of those days. He also gave me the opportunity to take on as much responsibility as I could handle and to learn basic work skills and values that have helped me in every job I've ever had.

So yeah, I think I won the lottery big time. Working in that sweatshop was one of the best things that ever happened to me. No doubt about it.

I was very sad when the factory lost the contract with Lord and Taylor. They closed down shortly after and laid everyone off, including Charlie. But it wasn't just losing my excellent job that made me sad. I'd come to feel part of the company and I wanted it to succeed. And I felt bad for Charlie, of course. It was a pretty tearful event when we said goodbye.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with David, to whom I can only say that I wish you the best; and can only advise that you start pounding pavement and looking for work at smaller companies. They're less likely to be caught up in the kind of nonsense that you've been encountering.

Rich
 
SCCutler said:
Read Mr. Sechrest's post. Read it again. Many parallels in my life, and sometimes you have to overcome your own poor choices.



Couple of other suggestions: we have a desperate shortage of competent labor in construction (and I mean, entry level); plus, sounds like you could have aptitudes and skills which would lend themselves to electrical work. Apprentices make good money, training paid for by the employer and, in three years, you own a skill that is perpetually marketable everywhere.



Virtually none of my clients went to college (except if they built it), and I call them, "boss."



A year from now, you'll be (God willing) a year older. Whatcha gonna do with it?
Click to expand...


Apprenticeships are one of the most under utilized methods of starting a career. I done an apprenticeship and went to college part time. By age 30 with a lot of hard work I was Maintenance Manager for a major oil company. I would recommend the apprentice career path to anybody. A great way to learn and build experience at the same time.


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These sob stories are all the same. I cant find work here...but I refuse to move...and it is someone else's fault.

I'vs seen some of our shops in the SE USA with unfilled jobs for years now. No one wants to work in skilled trades anymore. They all want to be web designers or live off the government.
 
Quick analysis of post.

Online applications: Generally worthless. Go find people doing stuff and ask them if they're hiring. Personal references trump computer generated leads every single time. You're automatically in line behind everyone with a friend who needs a job that they're willing to vouch for, if you're talking to a computer.

Time to talk to everyone in sight and wear out some shoe leather. I've been where you're at and the job that got me going again was a crap job a friend called me up and said, "this is way beneath your skill set but I know you need a job and the boss is looking for a weekend guy to babysit some Solaris machines and he'd probably hire full-time if you'd do Thurs-Mon". It sucked worse than he said. But it was my ticket back to working in my field.

Part-Time CFI who can't move: That's called a hobby. Sorry. Maybe harsh reality. I can't think of more than one person in professional aviation who makes a full-time living at it who hasn't moved multiple States away, and more than once. And been away from family for extended periods of time. Think hard about this. Talk to family. If you can't do it, you can't, but it's going to mean no aviation as a career, most of the time. You either need to grow it to full time and make CFI the career, or start applying everywhere a flying job exists and go there.

Cable TV installer: Most CATV gets the majority of their install work done by contractors. Targeting the main company is the wrong tactic nowadays. Find the sub-contractors and apply there. Better yet, watch for installers doing installs and just stop and strike up a conversation about needing a job and that you've done it before and are they hiring? Don't be a stalker but remember the guys on the street know the hiring manager. The HR computer doesn't.

Post Office: Pain in the butt. Find the area of your town that has all the warehouses and freight companies and go in person. It's near a major highway and there's always lots of big rigs rolling around the area. My office just happens to be in such an area and it'd take many hours to hit all the businesses with trucks rolling in and out all day. There's help wanted signs up at 1/4 of them.

"3-5 years of experience required" is easily wiped out with "1 personal reference". Seriously. What do all your flight students do for a living? Are they hiring? You know everyone in your logbook well enough to ask politely how they make their living and what kinds of jobs they have a hard time filling and if they'd be willing to give you a reference.

"Nearly bankrupting me", be honest. It has bankrupted you. You're just willing to pretend the debt is ok. Not judging. I've been there. But don't accept the delusion that debt wasn't bankruptcy already both on paper and for real. It's one of the reasons you let the one job go due to things you could control. You didn't see the balance sheet for what it said, and therefore didn't hold on as hard as you probably needed to.

Don't dwell on it, but get in your head how bad you need to keep the next job. And the one after that.

It's way too easy to get complacent about debt. Treat it as an in-flight emergency. Cool head. Run the checklist. Do whatever it takes to survive to fly another day. Dig out. Don't just say you will when things are better. The aircraft is already losing power and out of fuel.

It's that serious. It will crush every dream you have if you don't crush it. Debt is farking evil evil stuff. Kill it dead. Even if you only eat rice and beans for a couple of years. Make it... And I mean MAKE it go away. If you find one job that isn't making it go away, continue the hunt and find a second, then hunt for a third better one and leave the worst of the first two. Get energized about you controlling your life via your finances. It's damned painful at first. No additional debt. Don't allow it. If there's no cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought. You'll quickly find your inner cheapskate and find incredible ways to save a buck. After the first year of a fiscal diet and cash only you think you're going to die. Second year you start to realize you didn't die but you're still wicked uncomfortable. Third year you start to realize you've gone three years without buying some jerk's loans to get by. Five years, you're now completely committed to never paying any jerk a penny of interest ever again without a good reason and a painful decision to do it.

We're going on 15 years without accusing debt unless we have the assets to pay it off immediately. We use debt to our advantage only. If it becomes a disadvantage, we folk over the cash and cut ties with the debtor. This meant beater cars, many years without toys, and building a habit of being almost appalled at spending over $100 on anything.

Stuff about how others are "treating you" (thinly veiled in calling it a societal problem): There's an aspect of this that is "victim goggles". Others can see the blame in your head, without you even realizing that it shows. You'll ooze it. People give off a feel of distrust when they think others are against them and others really do pick up on it.

If you let that repeating message play inside your head while acting happy to someone, you'll still say little things in a way that gives it away.

Switching the attitude to "I've chosen poorly and need to fix this and I'm willing to bust butt and prove it to you" will get you returns, if you force out the thoughts of how it's someone else's fault.

Everyone has problems, if they get a whiff of your discontent they'll worry you'll be malcontent on the job and usually, they'd be correct. Anyone who's hired knows this. A hint of discontent at the outset, will often turn into an employee who's an outspoken whiney malcontent driving team morale down, two months after being hired. Dump the attitude that society owes you anything. Most hiring managers can smell that 5 minutes into the interview once you get one.

The old crowd at the airport: I bet a number of them run businesses or are in positions to hire. Did you think about that? You also have an "in" with them, most of them like CFIs and airplanes.

Don't miss an opportunity because of unfounded jealousy. Instead of standing back, go talk to them. Find out what they do.

Hell, see if they need their damn house painted. There isn't a homeowner on the planet who doesn't need something fixed.

How handy are you? I told myself I'd put up two acres worth of fence for two years and then finally called around to find someone to do it. I got two return phone calls from SIX *fence companies*. Four didn't return calls.

From my calculations the guy I hired made roughly $5K PROFIT depending on where he got the materials and worked 8.5-9.5 full days on the project -- that number is assuming he paid what I have to pay for the materials. Contractors usually don't.

And he was worth every penny. Hourly he was about $13, but he came and went as he pleased and I didn't hold him to a schedule. If the weather was bad I knew he wouldn't show until the mud dried up. When he had a Doc appointment I smiled and said, "no problem".

He dragged the start to end time out to over three and a half weeks. Didn't bother me a bit. Fence still got done faster than I would have done it. If he had busted butt he'd have been done in 8 days. His choice. Profit margin was the same whether it took 8 days or 3 months.

Social Security: Hate to break it to you but I don't think our age group will be getting anything at 67. I think ours kicks in at 72. I haven't checked lately but we're in it for a longer haul than the current rules. Or will be by the time someone changes it.

I've been right where you're at, other than didn't accomplish CFI. You have something there. It's impressive but if it isn't paying the bills, priority number one is doing the stuff that does pay the bills. As my friend from India jokes, because it's a common phrase in Indian culture that translates poorly but makes us all laugh when we hear it, "Do the needful."

I'm not telling you to hang it up. But you have to either make it grow to full time or be willing to move to make the aviation career go, or be willing to let it slide into lower importance than making a living.

You CAN do it. Those old guys at the airport, I'm rapidly heading toward being one of them. I did the cockroach infested apartment thing and moved back with family once also. Then I got married and built an impressive about of debt in a few short years. I had to stop the bad fiscal habits, force a mandatory reset of my thinking (and luckily my wife and I had the same though process wake up call and reaction to it at the same time) and fix it. At one point we were multiple hundreds of thousands in the hole with no plan to fix it.

The only person who really gave a crap about my finances was me. Once I cared enough to forego a lot of things and replace them with being happy I was headed for a longer term better goal and clearly saw that was a better path than buying stuff, the job losses (multiple layoffs and one firing) and honest conversations with bosses about compensation become much easier.

Once you bust into a job again, remember the phrase, "what else do you need done around here? I need some extra cash and I'm more than willing to work for it."

That phrase has had three sub-types of responses, "I can't give you any more hours", "we have a project coming up that we could pay you OT for, but it has to be done on weekends", and/or a job promotion that came with a raise because I "showed enthusiasm and initiative".
 
docmirror said:
OK, Dave - you want guaranteed employment? On Jan 5th I want you standing tall at either the Midland TX work force commission, or the Williston ND dept of labor.
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That was certainly true last January with $100 oil. It will be different with $50 oil. I've seen a few boom-bust cycles in Midland. When the boom is on things seem great, but you can be assured it will eventually be followed by a bust.
 
I love denverpilots post. I second the "its who you know" my mother in law of all people gave me a great reputation to my now boss. Yeah its a crappy job where I work twice as hard as I did in my old job and get paid half what I did get paid. But I'm getting new experiences and meeting new people everyday. I hope to last six months so I can go work somewhere else but take my experience.

If you need inspiration about debt tune into Dave Ramsey. I know he's on xm radio...but his website has lots of testimonials...yep 30k is a lot but lot of people have hundreds of thousands in debt.
 
Ramsey does have real broadcast outlets via self-syndication.

He's ironically in the coveted noon to 3PM slot, on the massive business flop that was our local "Progressive" station in the Denver market.
 
RJM62 said:
Geez, don't hold back. Say what you really mean!

Although I must admit, I also found myself reminiscing about my big lottery win, which happened to be when I was 9 and got a job working in the shipping department of a sweatshop in Brooklyn. That's not something most people would feel lucky about, but I do.

Charlie started me $2.00 / hour, which was very generous at the time.

Rich
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You got to work -- inside? And you got PAID $2/hour?

pfft. Lap of luxury. ;)

The OPs sitting on a sweet fat boy, doesn't appear to be hurting for calories, he's got a Bach degree, had a decent enough job, and he's a pilot with advanced ratings. Sorry - no tears here.
 
NoHeat said:
That was certainly true last January with $100 oil. It will be different with $50 oil. I've seen a few boom-bust cycles in Midland. When the boom is on things seem great, but you can be assured it will eventually be followed by a bust.
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I know two fracking companies that are looking for reliable people right now. Also, a small driller that can use a hand. He wants work NOW, and there is work available. I can assure you there are few jobs like mine where you can sit on your couch at home and play on the computer for 10-15 hours/day. Now, if he wants to get a job like mine, he has to get the degree and work his way up like I did. I didn't start with the silver spoon in my mouth.
 
docmirror said:
I can assure you there are few jobs like mine where you can sit on your couch at home and play on the computer for 10-15 hours/day. Now, if he wants to get a job like mine, he has to get the degree and work his way up like I did. I didn't start with the silver spoon in my mouth.
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What do you do anyway?
 
docmirror said:
I know two fracking companies that are looking for reliable people right now. Also, a small driller that can use a hand. He wants work NOW, and there is work available. I can assure you there are few jobs like mine where you can sit on your couch at home and play on the computer for 10-15 hours/day. Now, if he wants to get a job like mine, he has to get the degree and work his way up like I did. I didn't start with the silver spoon in my mouth.
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You've got a couch?!

You evil 1%er, you!! ;)

I cry on my dirty linoleum floor with a cheap bottle of Scotch and wish I had a couch!

:)

Joking aside: OP: You're in your 40s. What's your plan if mom won't have you back this time?

I know it's family and you're unlikely to have that happen, but she's under no obligation to take you in... You're an adult.

Perhaps you could dump the option and get hard core serious, by not allowing yourself to take advantage of the free room?

There's more than one successful person who has a story of living out of their car being the motivating factor that changed their life by changing their priorities.

I remember celebrating the day I could get rid of the awful used couch that was my first one. It was moving day to the better apartment and both dad and another helper pointed out that if I could afford to get my first new couch, it'd be a lot easier to throw it over the balcony rail than to get it down the stairs.

More fun, too.

Good riddance old crappy couch. 1... 2... 3...!

Broke its back when it hit the sidewalk and rocks. Was easier to break up and throw in the dumpster after that, too! ;)

Wasn't worth the risk of possibly bringing cockroaches along to the new place. The bed was also summarily dismissed from duty without cause.

I remember as a kid when dad got out the wood stain and turned a couple of wooden crates into end tables. A little sanding and some walnut colored stain will make any crappy pine box look presentable.
 
You got Scotch??

Rich ba$tard.
I am drinking red dog on the couch you threw away.
 
deftone said:
Apprenticeships are one of the most under utilized methods of starting a career.
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Big agreement. What used to be the standard way of launching your career is now rarely thought of.

I too think for the OP, determining what tradecraft (especially commercial construction oriented as Spike suggested) he enjoys, and then starting his apprenticeship with an eye on journeyman and eventually master is the way to go.

OP, that you want to be a full time CFI and work within commercial aviation is nice. But that is a dream and right now, you need a job.

Nothing says you cannot eventually realize your dream, but it will be the job that will get you out of Mom's house, out of debt, and building up the very large cash reserves so you can resume chasing your dream.

And regarding the debt, you won't go wrong reading The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey


Oh, and +1 to everything Nate said
 
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saracelica said:
If you need inspiration about debt tune into Dave Ramsey. I know he's on xm radio...but his website has lots of testimonials...yep 30k is a lot but lot of people have hundreds of thousands in debt.
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And even under employed, I know of many who have killed $30k and more of debt within 12-24 months because they got on a plan (Dave's Baby Steps or someone elses) plus a strict budget, and stuck to it. Instead of sitting in the middle of the room in their warm stinky diaper wailing about it, they got busy and improved themselves.

Many also reported that having the budget and money plan brought along many significant additional positive changes. I've heard about marriages improving and getting stronger, and one or both spouses getting better employment, both financially and emotionally. This happened because they went from the sour "poor, poor me" attitude to one of "can do anything and do it better than you" that bosses want to have on their teams.

David, take a look at this thread and mark it as the first time you stood up at a Debtors Anonymous meeting and said, "Hi, my name is David and I'm a debtor...". Many here are telling you some good steps to get your life back on track. Now it's up to you to write down the plan and execute it.
 
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I haven't had a chance to read all the new posts this morning yet. I just want to clarify one thing. The family issues I am referring to is my Mom is 73 and owns her house. My brother is virtually absent from the family so he won't help any. She needs help to stay in the house like lawn mowing and minor repairs and such. She doesn't get out in the winter time. Until she is willing to move out of the house I am pretty much chained to it.

I want to move for a job despite being burnt twice in the past doing so. Once was as a CFI. So please do not flame me for not moving. Sometimes there are circumstances that prevent you from doing something. Other than this, I am single and moveable until my savings get depleted completely, then I am not going to be able to move any where.

David
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What do you do anyway?
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I believe doc mirror is the largest pimp with a harem of over 1000 hookers.. he also is the biggest blow dealer in Texas........


Bryan. Mrs 6PC just bought alot of your christmas presents from him yesterday.....


Enjoy life buddy....:yes:........:D
 
And for anyone else who is lurking, reading this, and have been thinking about pursuing an commercial aviation career, David's (the OP) story is a great example of why many of us strongly do not advocate going into debt for it.

Save up for a year or three before you start. Get at least 50-60% of the required cash stashed away. And continue to work full time putting away as much as possible while you train for the remaining amount.

There are sooo many ways for someone who financed their education to have life and their dreams go off of the rails. Meanwhile you still owe the debt. And now are underemployed, underwater, and rapidly drowning.

Best thing is to never get there. Delay the gratification. Work hard for it in advance. Save up for it. Then pull the trigger when doing so will never place you in a drowning state.
 
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