I hate math...

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
130 miles by car@ 30mpg.. 4.33 gallons x2 for return trip = 8.66 gallons x 2.80/gal = $24.25

109.4nm by airplane / 117kts = .94 hours X 2 for return trip = 1.87hrs * 9gph = 16.83gal * 5.50/gal = $92.... + $130 for 3 days of rental car = $222.57


I don't like you, math. I don't like you at all.
 
cowman said:
130 miles by car@ 30mpg.. 4.33 gallons x2 for return trip = 8.66 gallons x 2.80/gal = $24.25

109.4nm by airplane / 117kts = .94 hours X 2 for return trip = 1.87hrs * 9gph = 16.83gal * 5.50/gal = $92.... + $130 for 3 days of rental car = $222.57


I don't like you, math. I don't like you at all.
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You just need to round. < $1AMU? No problem. Now go fly.
 
But what's your time worth? 2 hours round trip in a plane vs 4 hours round trip in a car. So two hours longer in a car, value the overage at $100/hr and now the car trip comes to $224.25 which is more than the plane ride.:D
 
I don't own an airplane yet, but the main reason I joined this board is to get better educated for when I do. And the one thing I've learned so far is that you never, ever, EVER, run the numbers on your airplane. :)
 
I just looked at flying Delta RNO-SLC out and back same day. $1350 for 2 people. Flying GA I can do it for $160/hr x 6 hrs + $200 for CFI (as I am not insured on this airplane) = $1160.

Driving is 1050mi @ 27mpg = 38.9 gallons * $3.10 = $120 + $80 hotel = $200.
 
Use mental math all the time to calculate lead radials, decent points, VDPs, and decent rates. I get sick of it too.
 
You need a faster, more efficient airplane. My RV-8 gets better mileage than my F-150.
 
Car will almost always be less expensive, you don't fly to save money, longer trips you save time
 
Jay Honeck said:
You need a faster, more efficient airplane. My RV-8 gets better mileage than my F-150.
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Yea but the truck can carry a bit more than the RV and its mileage doesn't change because you have a head wind
 
The OP's problem really is the rental car. That accounts for most of the cash cost, and by itself it cists more than the fuel for his personal auto. So the suggestion to fly a more efficient plane like an RV-8 is pointless -- even if the RV burned no fuel at all.
 
Walboy said:
Sounds like a good reason to drive a SUV or 4WD pickup. At least the cost of the fuel would be much closer.:D
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F-150 Supercrew gets 15mph highway. Mooney no wind LOP @ 145kts gets just shy of 21 statute mpg.

Buy a gas hog truck, it will make you feel better. :D
 
teejayevans said:
Yea but the truck can carry a bit more than the RV and its mileage doesn't change because you have a head wind[/QUOTE]

Is it a magic F-150? Unless it is its milage most certainly does change for the worse in a headwind.
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Rent a cheaper car, get a more efficient airplane. Why are you still doing math?
 
This is the reality of GA, it's a financial disaster.

Even the time savings suggested don't work. Driving, you fire up your car and leave. Flying, you drive to the airport, check weather, pull it out of the hangar, pre-flight, etc. and then leave. That adds at least an hour to each leg.

Fuel aside, the other cost of operating an airplane are huge in comparison to a car. Fuel just gives you an insight to the ratios.

Also, don't ever compare airliners to GA, it's much uglier even flying first class.

It leaves scenarios of a certain distance, not served by public transportation, with poor to no roads, places like Alaska where GA thrives.

So, you have to decide if the challenge and fun of flying is worth it vs. the expense. Why try to make it something that it isn't?
 
Don't forget, it isn't just flight time. Unless you happen to be a passenger with a corporate pilot doing all the work.

By Car:
1. Load car.
2. Drive to final destination

By GA:
1. Drive to airport
2. Unload car into plane
3. Preflight, prep, plan, clearance, etc
4. Fly to airport near destination
5. Unload plane into rental car
6. Secure aircraft
7. Arrange fuel an parking
8. Drive to final destination

We have a bad habit of only looking at #4 as if nothing else exists. Sure #4 is faster. But you can't ignore all the other lines the do contribute to the total time from point A to point B. All that will make your time saved even less. For a short flight, it might balance out to be the same time vs driving.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
For a short flight, it might balance out to be the same time vs driving.
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Depends on how straight the driving route is vs. flying direct. I've found the window is in the 2-3hr range. If I can drive it in 2-3 hours, there is no time savings flying.

One of the HUGE advantages to me is traffic. If the driving route is lightly populated, I don't mind driving. If it is heavily congested, I'll fly even if it takes MORE time.

Hate traffic :mad2:
 
Bill Jennings said:
Depends on how straight the driving route is vs. flying direct. I've found the window is in the 2-3hr range. If I can drive it in 2-3 hours, there is no time savings flying.

One of the HUGE advantages to me is traffic. If the driving route is lightly populated, I don't mind driving. If it is heavily congested, I'll fly even if it takes MORE time.

Hate traffic :mad2:
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:yeahthat:

I'm still trying to convince the wife that even though it's more expensive it's better for me to fly us places at times. One of my more recent attempts was shot down due to the rental car issue. Going from St. Louis, MO to Johnson City, TN for her pharmacy school graduation. 10 hour drive, a decent portion of that time in Southern Illinois (most brutal part of the drive); vs. a 4-hour flight in a 172. It doesn't help that she's not a huge fan of flying.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Depends on how straight the driving route is vs. flying direct. I've found the window is in the 2-3hr range. If I can drive it in 2-3 hours, there is no time savings flying.

One of the HUGE advantages to me is traffic. If the driving route is lightly populated, I don't mind driving. If it is heavily congested, I'll fly even if it takes MORE time.

Hate traffic :mad2:
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Depends a lot on the geography of where you live as well. When we lived in SE Virginia and Maryland, flying often didn't just save time, it made a trip possible - a 2.5 hour flight to some places would take 8 hours to drive, due to having to drive around things like the Chesapeake Bay or through the Appalachians. A 2.5 hour flight somewhere after work on Friday and returning Sunday night is easily doable, whereas an 8 hour drive would make the same trip basically undoable unless you were really motivated.

But now out in Oklahoma, heck, most places we go have a 75 mph interstate running basically straight there. So it takes a LONG flight to make up any time!
 
Some trips I have taken recently.

Raleigh to Nashville, 3 people

Drive to airport to wheels up 1 hour
2.5 hours each way. $800 club mooney wet rental
Have brother pick us up from Tune which is right by his house

3.5 hours total travel time and $265 each

By car
8.5 hours drive. Traffic. Someone please kill me now.

By Airline
Leave house, park, go through security in time to board 2 hours
Direct flight 1.5 hours on SWA
Baggage claim 15 minutes
City Traffic and ride to brother's house 30 mins
4.25 h travel time. $260 each

Raleigh to Hilton Head, SC for a weekend, 4 people

GA
Drive to airport, wheels up 1hr
Flight 2 Hrs
Rental waiting at FBO $50 for weekend
4 hours wet rental on piper warrior II $400

Travel time 3 hrs cost per person $112

Driving
4.75 hours no traffic. On I-95 all bets are off. Cost per person $25.

Airline
Leave house, park security etc 2h
Travel time with stop in CLT 3h
Rental Car $50
Freedom pat down - priceless
5h travel time and $500 per person

Raleigh, NC to Lima, OH to visit family

GA
Drive to airport, wheels up 1h
Flight 2.5h
Walk across street from FBO to cousin's house.
Wet mooney rental $800
Cost per person $270

Drive
It's like 9 hours. Kill me now

Airline
Leave house, security, park etc 2h
Travel time to Dayton 3.5h w layover in philly or charlottte
rental car and drive to lima 2h

Airline ticket per person $400
rental car $50 (at least)
Travel time 7.5h
 
Henning said:
When did an AMU change from the cost to operate your plane for an hour?
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I read on the Internet (ha ha) that an AMU can represent one thousand US dollars. I've also heard that "boat" is actually an acronym for "bust out another [$] thousand." These hobbies ain't cheap.
 
My Anchorage house to my cabin:

Combined truck w/ trailer and river boat ride- 5 hours plus. Fuel and maintenance costs for a high powered jet boat are not cheap.

Combined truck/airplane/small jet boat ride- under 1 hour. Fuel and maintenance costs are much less than with a big jet boat.

That example is for a short but regular trip for my family. Go out further, like to the west side of the Alaska Range? Airplanes are the only way to get there.

Getting there? Expensive, no question. Being there? Priceless.
 
Circuit Flyer said:
I read on the Internet (ha ha) that an AMU can represent one thousand US dollars. I've also heard that "boat" is actually an acronym for "bust out another [$] thousand." These hobbies ain't cheap.
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Yep, a Boat has always been $1000, an AMU though was always a comparative figure in budgeting; how many hours of flight time you could buy with the same money. When I was training a new stereo cost 2 AMU.
 
cowman said:
130 miles by car@ 30mpg.. 4.33 gallons x2 for return trip = 8.66 gallons x 2.80/gal = $24.25

109.4nm by airplane / 117kts = .94 hours X 2 for return trip = 1.87hrs * 9gph = 16.83gal * 5.50/gal = $92.... + $130 for 3 days of rental car = $222.57


I don't like you, math. I don't like you at all.
Click to expand...

Use $.555 per mile for the car.
130 X .555 = $72.15
$72.15 X 2 = $144.30.
 
Henning said:
Yep, a Boat has always been $1000, an AMU though was always a comparative figure in budgeting; how many hours of flight time you could buy with the same money. When I was training a new stereo cost 2 AMU.
Click to expand...


That's how I look at it now. "Kids need new shoes? 2 AMUs."
 
Henning said:
When did an AMU change from the cost to operate your plane for an hour?
Click to expand...


Huh? An AMU is $1,000, right? The "<" sign means his costs are "less than" $1,000, ergo don't worry about it and go fly. It was kind a joke, killjoy.
 
Fredbob711 said:
:yeahthat:



I'm still trying to convince the wife that even though it's more expensive it's better for me to fly us places at times. One of my more recent attempts was shot down due to the rental car issue. Going from St. Louis, MO to Johnson City, TN for her pharmacy school graduation. 10 hour drive, a decent portion of that time in Southern Illinois (most brutal part of the drive); vs. a 4-hour flight in a 172. It doesn't help that she's not a huge fan of flying.
Click to expand...


Ha. :). When we visit our daughter at Mississippi State's vet school, we have to drive the entire length of the state of Illinois. That's the most life-sucking 6+ hours of my life.

And for the record, from Sikeston, MO south through Eastern Arkansas aren't much better.
 
nddons said:
Huh? An AMU is $1,000, right? The "<" sign means his costs are "less than" $1,000, ergo don't worry about it and go fly. It was kind a joke, killjoy.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know what you meant, and you are not the only person I have seen use it that way. I was just wondering when the usage changed.:dunno:
 
cowman said:
130 miles by car@ 30mpg.. 4.33 gallons x2 for return trip = 8.66 gallons x 2.80/gal = $24.25

109.4nm by airplane / 117kts = .94 hours X 2 for return trip = 1.87hrs * 9gph = 16.83gal * 5.50/gal = $92.... + $130 for 3 days of rental car = $222.57


I don't like you, math. I don't like you at all.
Click to expand...

Which method of getting is way way way waaaaaay more enjoyable? flying or driving?

If you are flying just for transportation, then I can't help you...
 
It's more about saving my sheckles for...

Completely optional trip B.... 16 hour round trip by car vs 6 hour round trip in airplane = I'm not even counting the fuel cost, we're flying. No rental car required.

Mandatory trip C... 21 hour round trip by car, 7-8 round trip by air = I'm not calculating this one either, we're flying it. No rental car here either.

Also, my annual is due this month...
 
From another post I did, here is rationalization that flying is economically way to travel:
M20J POH, @12K with full payload:
145 mph, burning 6.4gph which is 22.66 mpg, not bad, and if you lose a couple of passengers,
you'll be burning 24.46 mpg....
so if a M20J and a Corvette both leave KRDU for KPBI,
the Mooney will burn 26.1 gals, the vette: 26 gals.
The vette will take 10:47mins, the Mooney 4:40mins, Delta with 1 stop will take 4:12mins costing $232, the Mooney (assuming $5.50/gal) $143.55, but if you want to check luggage, add $25 to price of Delta's tix.
This $ amounts are out of date, avgas is cheaper and Delta's tickets are more expensive!
 
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Read this as I hate meth. Disappointed in all these numbers in the posts..
 
For where I live/where I go if one uses airlines, you need to add 1.5hrs to get to MSP. Then whether getting picked up or renting a car, nearly another 2 do drive from either KSTL or 2.5hrs for the other from KSDF... so 7 to 8 hours added on for ground transport by airline(round trip).

GA it's .5 hours to my airport, then about 5 minutes from the destination airport to the final destination for my optional trip B.

Then for the other one, either .7hrs or about .2 if I want to land at the dirt strip with no fuel/facilities.

For those trips you can't touch GA... it isn't even worth working the costs out, the time savings is huge.


This next one though I'm only saving an hour.... also worried about dealing with WI winter and having the airplane parked outside where I can't plug in the pre-heater.
 
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