I feel horrible

[steingar]

Er, a friend of mine offered the offending students the choice of receiving a zero or facing the committee. That is a friend, got it? I would of course report them immediately, since that's what it says in the rule book.

 

[murphey]

I hope he was dealt with appropriately. Plagiarism is serious, at my university it can lead to dismal. in this case it would appear that the student should have been awarded the 'F' that they richly deserved and then dropped from the course.

I've never cared what my university policies were concerning cheating. I made it clear at the beginning of each class, in my Class Policies handout. If I catch you cheating, it's an automatic 0. Not so much that you were cheating, but because you believe ME so stupid as to not notice.

One class (advanced databases) I had 4 students that all deserved and received 0s on a major project. On each of the papers I wrote part of my comments then added "see XXX's paper for the rest of my comments".

One of the comments was "if you're going to use each other's work, at least fix the spelling mistakes, and change a few things so it's not so obvious that it's the same paper."

And no, none of the 4 passed the course.

 

[murphey]

The pay off came a year or so later when he stopped by to speak to me. He came to tell me that he was glad that he had repeated and only later came to appreciate what we had done for him by making him do so.

I love it when a student emails or calls me anywhere from a month after class to almost a year. Inevitably it starts with "y'know, I wish I had paid better attention to you in class!"

warms the cockles of my heart. and usually leads to a consulting contract.

 

[murphey]

To get this right is more labour intensive. But arguably, this is how PhDs work. You work closely with your research advisor to complete a significant body of research work. But you don't finish until you manage to pass an evaluation of a pool of experts (your thesis committee) chosen from inside and outside the faculty at your school.

Chris

Chris, I disagree (but only in my experience). I had my dean explain that by the time my dissertation was finished, *I* was the expert in that field, and about the only thing the committee could do was check for grammar, spelling, and that it didn't embarass the school.

 

[azure]

Part of what really upset me about this student is that he was doing fairly well in the course. He wasn't the kind to need to cheat to get a grade. If he hadn't done the paper, he would have gotten a B. Even worse, he didn't seem to understand that what he was doing WAS cheating. He tried to argue that it was okay because he changed some of the words. (In his SECOND paper, that was true, but you could still recognize the original.)

Yes, I make it clear now to all the students that to get credit for the paper, it has to be YOUR work. Plagiarism earns you a zero, for sure, and maybe worse depending on the details.

 

[azure]

Chris, I disagree (but only in my experience). I had my dean explain that by the time my dissertation was finished, *I* was the expert in that field, and about the only thing the committee could do was check for grammar, spelling, and that it didn't embarass the school.

Hah! My dissertation advisor told me the exact same thing!

In some fields, it really is true.

 

[murphey]

Yesterday I flunked a graduating senior. His parents flew in from Russia to see him graduate. He had a good job lined up. I flunked him with good cause, and now all that is frakked up.

That isn't event he worst thing I did with good cause yesterday, not by a huge long shot.

it's when you don't feel horrible (even tho it's not your fault) that you should start to worry. I quit being a manager (and started on my Phud the next day) when I had to start laying off people. I was actually gleeful over one of the people being canned. No one should EVER enjoy firing or laying off employees. That's when I realized I shouldn't be a manager. Technical lead, yes. Manager, no.

 

[steingar]

Chris, I disagree (but only in my experience). I had my dean explain that by the time my dissertation was finished, *I* was the expert in that field, and about the only thing the committee could do was check for grammar, spelling, and that it didn't embarass the school.

I sat in a Thesis dissertation once that had a hole running right down the middle of the data. It was actually quite difficult for me, as I was the outside member. Had it been someone in my Department the student would not have graduated, and the advisor would have been humiliated at the discovery. This department didn't seem to care as much, and I only signed off after the advisor promised me the problems would be fixed before the student left.

 

[Ghery]

it's when you don't feel horrible (even tho it's not your fault) that you should start to worry. I quit being a manager (and started on my Phud the next day) when I had to start laying off people. I was actually gleeful over one of the people being canned. No one should EVER enjoy firing or laying off employees. That's when I realized I shouldn't be a manager. Technical lead, yes. Manager, no.

I've been much happier as a technical lead than as a manager, and I never had to lay anyone off.

I sat in a Thesis dissertation once that had a hole running right down the middle of the data. It was actually quite difficult for me, as I was the outside member. Had it been someone in my Department the student would not have graduated, and the advisor would have been humiliated at the discovery. This department didn't seem to care as much, and I only signed off after the advisor promised me the problems would be fixed before the student left.

Were they?

 

[RJM62]

it's when you don't feel horrible (even tho it's not your fault) that you should start to worry. I quit being a manager (and started on my Phud the next day) when I had to start laying off people. I was actually gleeful over one of the people being canned. No one should EVER enjoy firing or laying off employees. That's when I realized I shouldn't be a manager. Technical lead, yes. Manager, no.

Man, how true that is. The first time I had to fire someone I was physically ill. I was thinking, "This guy has a wife and kids... what are they going to do..." etc.

He was an alcoholic. He'd arrived to work drunk, driving a company car, and bent it in the parking lot. He had been warned before. He had signed an agreement to never again be under the influence of alcohol while on company time or in a company vehicle. When sober, he was the hardest and most dependable worker the office had. When drunk, he was worse than useless.

And he had been warned.

I canned him on the spot, took his keys, ID card, etc., called a cab, and sent him home. I then called the home office and told them to run his termination. I felt terrible. Physically ill.

Later on his wife stopped by and asked if there was anything I could do to save his job if he went to rehab. I decided to go out on a limb and said he was fired, but if he went to a rehab, joined AA, got a sponsor, and stayed sober, I'd consider him for re-hire and talk to the home office. The company I worked for was a big contributor to some rehab in Jersey, so I figured I could probably get him in.

The guy came in the next day and agreed to those terms. So I called the rehab, got him admitted the same day, and told the home office to send his vacation check to his wife so she could feed the kids. He did the 30 day rehab, got out, went to AA, got a sponsor, got rehired, and....

two weeks after we rehired him, got arrested on a DWI.

And I had to fire him again, for good.

I was totally justified. No one could fault me. Not even the employee in question. He knew he had it coming, and that it was completely his own fault.

But I still felt like crap.

-Rich

 

[ryoung99]

As a student, I was on the end of one of these conversations. It sucked, but I am forever grateful to the professor.

It was my final English class, and I did not pass. Why? it surely was not a lack of effort, but at that time in my life the concepts and what I was being asked to do just did not click.

After the initial conversation where I was told I would not pass, the professor did something that I appreciated (and did not expect). He contacted my advisor and asked if he could get copies of the papers I had written in my field of major (economics). After reviewing those papers (many of them), he called me back in and gave me a "C".

He did this, as my techical writing skills for my major were solid. Yet my skill set for his class was sub-par (I agreed with him). He told me, that English is about communication, while I did not meet his technical definition, it was obvious that in my choosen area that I could communicate in a writing very effectively, thus he had decided to give me "extra credit" for the work I had done.

In addition, he asked me to agree to hire an English major to help me learn and proof read my works when I was in a position to hire an assistant. I am happy to say a decade later when I was promoted to a position that was afforded an administrative assistant an English major got hired. Since then every one of my assistants either majored or minored in English.

But on the other hand, had he flunked me and I not graduated that year, it would have been no ones fault but my own and I would have not have held a grudge.

 

[ScottM]

It could be worse Mike. This person could have been in your class.

Language is NSFW

This happened at UW Milwaukee and was on the news here today.

 

[bbchien]

We try and weigh these things carefully. I won't pass on a student who I don't think learned the material. It isn't like I'm teaching them thoracic surgery and someone is going to die if they flunk, but numerous members of our community depend on us to determine if the students have academic ability. This is seen as beneficial or essential to numerous people and institutions. If I start passing unsatisfactory students I've just cheated everybody.

I was gong to state the converse: If you don't do the correct thing, THEN think how badly you'd feel.....