I don't know how to feel about electric bikes...

IK04 said:
That seems really lame. I use Strava to log my workouts and I live on a hill. The whole purpose is to record your performance and compare it to your peers...
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Yeah, there are some local Strava segments where the segment leader needs to be doing 35mph on the flats for a mile to achieve the times they're posting. So either a swift e bike or they're cheating and using a car.
 
weilke said:
You are bellyaching about people putting a strain on the power-grid to charge their e-bikes for recreational purposes yet you are a private pilot who presumably doesn't always have a work related reason to get into your plane.
Yeah, that makes you a hypocrite.
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A part of me wants to call you an ignorant troll who has serious reading comprehension issues. But I'm not going to, because I don't actually think you are. At least, not an ignorant one anyway. But I do think you are so caught up in your point that you have to twist a very minor comment into a pivotal argument.

If you really think I am bellyaching about people putting a strain on the power grid or contributing to e-waste by virtue of riding e-bikes, you miss the point. I could care less if people want to charge their e-bikes, or their phones, or their Teslas, or their electrical 'Luv Ewe' fantasy dolls with internal warming coils. No, I'm bellyaching about people riding e-bikes in the guise of exercise. Maybe you agree with me on that, maybe you don't, and maybe rightly, but that is what I am bellyaching about.
 
Sac Arrow said:
No, I'm bellyaching about people riding e-bikes in the guise of exercise. Maybe you agree with me on that, maybe you don't, and maybe rightly, but that is what I am bellyaching about.
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Let’s say an individual has determined they’d like to maintain a heart rate of 65% to 80% of their maximum sustainable for 1 hour as a goal.

On their conventional bike, they can average 17 mph staying in that range, and travel 17 miles during their workout.

On their e-bike, they can average 22 mph staying in that range, and travel 22 miles during their workout.

It’s patently ridiculous to say the first case is fine “honest” exercise and the second suffers from being only a “guise” of exercise. There’s really nothing worth bellyaching about: let folks exercise as much or as little as they wish on whatever damn bike they choose.
 
Bill said:
Yeah, there are some local Strava segments where the segment leader needs to be doing 35mph on the flats for a mile to achieve the times they're posting. So either a swift e bike or they're cheating and using a car.
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35mph on a flat road for one mile is achievable without an ebike or motorpacing behind a car. A strong Category 1 or 2 road rider on a road bike can do it. Put them on a time trial bike and 35mph for one mile is even easier.
 
imwithtuxedo said:
35mph on a flat road for one mile is achievable without an ebike or motorpacing behind a car. A strong Category 1 or 2 road rider on a road bike can do it. Put them on a time trial bike and 35mph for one mile is even easier.
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Seriously? I thought about 28mph was about tops for flat lands riding.
 
Bill said:
Seriously? I thought about 28mph was about tops for flat lands riding.
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I've still got multiple KOM's that are 30+mph and 1 mile in length and I'm no spring chicken anymore. A disgruntled ex-husband of one of my divorce clients specifically bought an ebike and went around town taking all of my KOM's a few years ago. I got a few back even though he was on an ebike and he couldn't retake them because the ebike motor would only assist up to a certain speed! https://www.strava.com/segments/7770676

As things go, I've lost a lot of KOM's to younger and faster cyclists over the past few years. I'm getting slower and it seems gravity affects me more these days...
 
Bill said:
Seriously? I thought about 28mph was about tops for flat lands riding.
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In Ironman races, the pros average in the low 20s mph over 112 miles. I imagine for a single mile 35 mph is well w/in reach.
 
I know people who easily ride 35 mph on flats, they can do it for some distance alone, but in a paceline with other good riders they do it for quite a while. But there are a lot of strava hero cheaters too. Strava needs to figure out how to weed out the e-bike cheaters, or at least give them their own categories.
 
Here's my issue with e-bikes... They are basically underpowered motorcycles - the same as a moped. If someone wants to ride one, that's fine but they shouldn't be allowed on MUPs or non-motorized trails. They are fine on roads, and maybe in bike lanes (it's good for drivers to see the bike lanes being used). Why not just get an electric motorcycle and stop faking it?

And yes, there are medical reasons for having an e-bike but they are not as common as people like to say.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
Here's my issue with e-bikes... They are basically underpowered motorcycles - the same as a moped. If someone wants to ride one, that's fine but they shouldn't be allowed on MUPs or non-motorized trails. They are fine on roads, and maybe in bike lanes (it's good for drivers to see the bike lanes being used). Why not just get an electric motorcycle and stop faking it?
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On the multi-use trail, there are just as many ways to be a jerk on a regular bike as on a e-bike. The problem is not e-bikes, the problem are ignorant and rude people.
 
I'll never understand the hate on ebikes. I don't care what mode of transportation someone uses. I don't care if they want to use the assist on uphills, or when they get tired, don't want to get sweaty on the way to work, or just want to ride a bike without putting out much effort. It doesn't matter. Just like I don't care if you drive a Ford Expedition or ride a motorcycle to work. I don't care if you use free weights or a machine at the gym. People buy and use ebikes for a multitude of reasons. It truly doesn't matter what those reasons are and you shouldn't give a crap what someone else chooses to buy and use. It isn't affecting you and you are free to keep chugging away on your own bike. For those of use that do ride, the more bikes on the road/trails the better. I'm involved in changing laws in my state to benefit cycling and I can tell you that the more people cycling makes it easier to get favorable laws passed.
 
Sac Arrow said:
A part of me wants to call you an ignorant troll who has serious reading comprehension issues. But I'm not going to, because I don't actually think you are. At least, not an ignorant one anyway. But I do think you are so caught up in your point that you have to twist a very minor comment into a pivotal argument.

If you really think I am bellyaching about people putting a strain on the power grid or contributing to e-waste by virtue of riding e-bikes, you miss the point. I could care less if people want to charge their e-bikes, or their phones, or their Teslas, or their electrical 'Luv Ewe' fantasy dolls with internal warming coils. No, I'm bellyaching about people riding e-bikes in the guise of exercise. Maybe you agree with me on that, maybe you don't, and maybe rightly, but that is what I am bellyaching about.
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I know this isn't terribly productive, but how else should anyone understand this comment:

Sac Arrow said:
I'm fussing about the people that are tooling around on e bikes in the guise of getting exercise, placing a demand on the power grid, and the environmental burden of the battery manufacturers. They are not offsetting car trips. Oh I do see the guys in their work clothes on the way to the office, and I think that's great.
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In the totality of your rants, this only seems to be a minor point, but you should at least acknowledge that this sounds hypocritical when it comes from someone in the energy wasting business.

And no, that doesn't necessarily make you a hypocrite. It just makes you appear to be someone who says hypocritical things.
 
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Isn't complaining about e-bike riders logging their rides on web sites analogous to complaining about pilots logging their flight time with autopilots?

I mean, if pilot A has 5,000 hours mostly sitting behind a three-axis autopilot following magenta lines while pilot B has "only" 1,000 mostly handflying …

(oops, did I open that can of worms? ;))
 
David Megginson said:
Isn't complaining about e-bike riders logging their rides on web sites analogous to complaining about pilots logging their flight time with autopilots?

I mean, if pilot A has 5,000 hours mostly sitting behind a three-axis autopilot following magenta lines while pilot B has "only" 1,000 mostly handflying …

(oops, did I open that can of worms? ;))
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The aviation equivalent are glider pilots who use their power assist to cheat on competitions scored with a recording device. In the olden days, when the 'barograph' was a sealed box with a drum type recording barometer, those were harder to prove. Now, the GPS trackers are set up to record if the auxiliary motor is being used.
 
Nothing wrong with bikes or cars
It is humans who are flawed.

My lady neighbor has a $1300 per year membership at a local gym.
Every night she drives her luxury SUV there to exercise on one of those pedal-bike machines.
 
If you are going over 10 mph on a municipal recreation trail with other people on it, you should be on the road. We call them rail trails around here. Sometimes you can fly, I'll go 25 mph, but if I come up on a person, I slow to 10 or slower. I very rarely go on them because I like to ride faster and I like hills. But sometimes I walk on them and I have to resist the urge to take out some Lance Armstrong wannabe weaving through people at 25 mph yelling at them to move because he is too afraid to ride on the road.
 
PaulS said:
If you are going over 10 mph on a municipal recreation trail with other people on it, you should be on the road.
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20 km/h posted here in Ottawa rather than 16 km/h, but same idea. I will admit to cycling faster on mixed-use paths in the past when I've seen a few hundred metres completely empty ahead of me early in the morning, but you can write that off to a wild youth. :)
 
David Megginson said:
20 km/h posted here in Ottawa rather than 16 km/h, but same idea. I will admit to cycling faster on mixed-use paths in the past when I've seen a few hundred metres completely empty ahead of me early in the morning, but you can write that off to a wild youth. :)
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I will do that too, although probably not for just a few hundred meters. As long as I'm not blasting by someone at 25 mph, I don't see an issue with it, like I said, I'll slow to 10 or slower if I think they are clueless.
 
So is the real problem here people being overly competitive about trivial things due to online gamification? Does it really matter what times someone else posts to a cycling or gliding website?

That's one thing that put me off geocaching — it was all about running up numbers instead of taking time to enjoy each cache and its surroundings. Where's the joy in that?
 
David Megginson said:
So is the real problem here people being overly competitive about trivial things due to online gamification? Does it really matter what times someone else posts to a cycling or gliding website?

That's one thing that put me off geocaching — it was all about running up numbers instead of taking time to enjoy each cache and its surroundings. Where's the joy in that?
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I really don't care about the online thing, other than when I'm dying, catching someone on zwift up hill, I go to pass and their power output goes up by 10, makes me laugh.

E-bikes don't really bother me, except for as I posted above. But to be honest, on long organized rides, younger guys will see me coming, no ebike and pick up their pace, get a 1/4 mile ahead, then let up. I'm pretty consistent on my rides, usually this will repeat a few times until they blow up.

I had this one guy, on one of my maintenance rides, just didn't want to be passed, which I was fine with until he just got too slow. So I sped up a little, went by him, went back to my pace, which was a little faster than him. He didn't like that, so he opened up just before this 1/2 mile 14% hill. He made it about 3/4 of the way up and blew up. He looked so bad as I went to pass him that I thought he was having an issue, so I asked if he was ok. He just gave me an aggravated look, shook his head yes, and motioned for me to keep going. I felt a little bad for him, but it's why I just focus on my pace and let people pass me.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
Here's my issue with e-bikes... They are basically underpowered motorcycles - the same as a moped. If someone wants to ride one, that's fine but they shouldn't be allowed on MUPs or non-motorized trails. They are fine on roads, and maybe in bike lanes (it's good for drivers to see the bike lanes being used). Why not just get an electric motorcycle and stop faking it?

And yes, there are medical reasons for having an e-bike but they are not as common as people like to say.
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eBikes have three basic levels of class. If they do not fit in one of these classes, they technically are not a bike and are considered are motorized vehicle. I am going on memory of what a couple ebike companies told me, so I might have it wrong.
Class 1. Pedal Assist only, must cut off pedal assist at 17 MPH. Most of these are between 150-350 watt motors. Many have variations of 1, 3 or 5 levels of assist.
Class 2. Adds a throttle, so no pedaling required, must have cut off at 17 MPH.
Class 3. Requires a speedometer and a throttle, has a cut off somewhere in the mid to upper 20s.

Tim
 
I'm fine with folks riding ebikes, but don't try to claim a Strava KOM on your ebike. I'm 64 and am in the top 5 - 10 in a few KOM's in my area. It's windy here in FL and some of my best times are wind assisted, but I'm also at 300ish watts for the 1/2 mile segments and 250ish for the 3 mile segment where I'm around 27 MPH for the 3 miles. A non-ebike can definitely do better than that, but I'm suspicious of the 35mph+ folks with no power data.

Still trying to figure out who is who on the POA Strava club, I'm under my real name - Kinsley Sykes, but really wondering who Adam S and Jamie Kirk are?
 
I have considered buying an e-bike for one reason and one reason only.

I would use it as a small , lightweight , quiet motorcycle to cruise the neighborhood .
 
Hang 4 said:
Still trying to figure out who is who on the POA Strava club, I'm under my real name - Kinsley Sykes, but really wondering who Adam S and Jamie Kirk are?
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My user name is "LNX GUY," but I have not been very active since my work schedule affords little sleep except in the morning...

I ride a single speed bike and I live on a hill, so the workout is legit. Maybe someday I will have a lightweight bike with gears so I can ride with a club again...
 
Hang 4 said:
I'm fine with folks riding ebikes, but don't try to claim a Strava KOM on your ebike. I'm 64 and am in the top 5 - 10 in a few KOM's in my area. It's windy here in FL and some of my best times are wind assisted, but I'm also at 300ish watts for the 1/2 mile segments and 250ish for the 3 mile segment where I'm around 27 MPH for the 3 miles. A non-ebike can definitely do better than that, but I'm suspicious of the 35mph+ folks with no power data.

Still trying to figure out who is who on the POA Strava club, I'm under my real name - Kinsley Sykes, but really wondering who Adam S and Jamie Kirk are?
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I haven't been able to ride consistently this summer between distractions and persistent heavy rain. Hope start building a base in August, going to ride in Provence next spring.
 
tspear said:
eBikes have three basic levels of class. If they do not fit in one of these classes, they technically are not a bike and are considered are motorized vehicle. I am going on memory of what a couple ebike companies told me, so I might have it wrong.
Class 1. Pedal Assist only, must cut off pedal assist at 17 MPH. Most of these are between 150-350 watt motors. Many have variations of 1, 3 or 5 levels of assist.
Class 2. Adds a throttle, so no pedaling required, must have cut off at 17 MPH.
Class 3. Requires a speedometer and a throttle, has a cut off somewhere in the mid to upper 20s.

Tim
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Yeah but this is based on nothing - there is no regulation or oversight. Some ebike manufacturers got together and came up with these 'classes' and hope that everyone else voluntarily sticks to them. At the same time, I see advertisements from 25+ MPH pedal-assist ebikes, people hacking them to make them faster etc. Based on the classes, I see:
Class 1: Moped
Class 2: Way underpowered motorcycle to irritate other drivers
Class 3: Mostly underpowered motorcycle to irritate other drivers

The majority of people I see on these ebikes have lower handling skills, lack the strength to get get out of the trouble that their powered bike gets them in (I passed a guy who couldn't pedal up a hill the other day because his battery died, and this was on a public road. Now imagine he's 3 miles out in the desert with no cell service.), and ride way faster than they should in areas with lots of other pedestrians.

I'm not saying that all regular bike riders are better, but they often have the sense not to get in over their heads (as much) and don't get into as many situations they can't get out of. Weaving in and out of people - I still see that a lot on MUPs but not as much as powered bikes (gas or electric - seriously, aside from noise and pollution what's the difference?). In fact, many of them get that 'car' mentality - 'Get outta my way! I'm on an EBIKE!!!'

I contend that the bike manufacturers and bike stores have propped up this market because it's a big money maker. If ebikes have the names KTM, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha, BMW, etc on them they never would have gotten as much support.
 
I don't think courtesy on a bike has anything to do with whether or not it has an "e" in front of it. I've seen people riding regular bikes weaving through areas with pedestrians, other bike riders, kids, and dogs. Often they seem to be going as fast as they can, probably trying to win that Strava competition. As far as Strava goes, I don't see how it means anything other than a competition with yourself, or perhaps trusted friends. As someone pointed out, they have a one-gear bike. What about bikes with multiple gears? Are the cheating? You could use your app in your car, as far as anyone knows. Too much comparing, as far as I'm concerned. People can exercise, or not, the way they see fit.
 
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