I declared an emergency today

(regarding shutting down and trying to restart on final)
Ted DuPuis said:
In a 310 this wouldn't work in his situation. The non-turbo 310s had the boost pumps in the tip tanks, so you would be unable to prime (and thus most likely unable to start) the engine with it on the aux tank.

In general, I wouldn't do this anyway. You have no way of knowing when the engine would quit. So then you're setting yourself up for being on short final with an engine then failing on you, which is a recipe for a crash.
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That's what I was thinking. As long as you handle things properly, the plane will fly and land safely on one engine in the situation described. Not ideal, but if you're going to have a bad situation it's better to have it already happen and be under control than have it pop up randomly when trying to land.

When weighed against the significant downside of imminent engine failure, I don't see the value of a second engine with 1-2 gallons of fuel compared to a feathered engine. You still don't have the option of going around. It's maybe a bit easier to fly but probably just as nerve racking. If you're lucky, the engine runs until you land as normal. If you're not lucky ... ouch.
 
You're alive, so good job.

I cannot analyze exactly what was going on in the cockpit, so please take this as a best guess advisory only.

If you knew you were going to lose an engine, might it have been beneficial to shut it down, and do a stabalized single engine approach on your terms instead of the engines? You say the airplane was light and can fly OEI.... I don't see the need to stuff it in. Take it around and do an approach.

My post will get frowned upon by some for sure.
I mean no disrespect to pyou, as you all walked away from it.
That said, for folks here to say Great job, i would disagree. I say good job since nobody was hurt. But still the situation was eventful.
 
Kritchlow said:
You're alive, so good job.

I cannot analyze exactly what was going on in the cockpit, so please take this as a best guess advisory only.

If you knew you were going to lose an engine, might it have been beneficial to shut it down, and do a stabalized single engine approach on your terms instead of the engines? You say the airplane was light and can fly OEI.... I don't see the need to stuff it in. Take it around and do an approach.

My post will get frowned upon by some for sure.
I mean no disrespect to pyou, as you all walked away from it.
That said, for folks here to say Great job, i would disagree. I say good job since nobody was hurt. But still the situation was eventful.
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Good question. I think the decision in my mind was that the weather was deteriorating and I really wanted to get under the deck to an airport right in front of me with a nice long runway that was basically vfr. While I could have done a single engine approach, I felt that there was less risk getting down quickly.

I think I was just unlucky with the tire situation on the icy runway. Without that factor it would've been a fairy normal landing with just some excess energy at touchdown.

Thanks and happy to discuss further. I can always be better and learn more.
 
Way to go James!! Are you still stuck at this intermediate airport? Very interested (as are you, I'm sure!) to learn what went wrong with the selector assembly.

P.S.--Bryan is right; Ted wins the internet with that 6PC/FC/Ted dialogue.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Way to go James!! Are you still stuck at this intermediate airport? Very interested (as are you, I'm sure!) to learn what went wrong with the selector assembly.

P.S.--Bryan is right; Ted wins the internet with that 6PC/FC/Ted dialogue.
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My "alternate" was actually in a town that is a few miles from one of our operations in Ohio so I was able to get transport pretty quickly.
 
James,

Keep us posted as to the cause of the cable being inop. I won't discount the possibility of it freezing but I've not heard of that happening in a 310. If the cable failed internally there should have been some indication such as rough movement prior to the failure. If it was obstructed by a tool inadvertently left there someone's gonna get yelled at big time.
 
James_Dean said:
I think I was just unlucky with the tire situation on the icy runway. Without that factor it would've been a fairy normal landing with just some excess energy at touchdown.
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This. I saw your photos on FB. I'd say the ice was the biggest factor in losing the tire. Your description of thinking you were going to overrun but then stopping with a 1000' to go made much more sense.
 
But, but, you fly a twin! I thot you twin guys pooh pooh losing an engine as a non-issue because you have a spare! :wink2:

Great job managing your situation! You got the plane on the ground safe with minimal damage and pax safe. Dont second guess yourself 'too' much.
 
Norman said:
James,

Keep us posted as to the cause of the cable being inop. I won't discount the possibility of it freezing but I've not heard of that happening in a 310. If the cable failed internally there should have been some indication such as rough movement prior to the failure. If it was obstructed by a tool inadvertently left there someone's gonna get yelled at big time.
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The failure occurred on the second flight and sixth position change of the day. No abnormal indications prior to failure.
 
That's what happens when you travel to my home town without letting me know. Now get the bird repaired, go fly and don't make the same mistake again!

Oh, and good job landing safely and all that.
 
JCranford said:
But, but, you fly a twin! I thot you twin guys pooh pooh losing an engine as a non-issue because you have a spare! :wink2:
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It was a non-issue, he would've made the news in a single. That would have been an issue. ;)

But it still gives you some pucker factor when that happens for real.
 
steingar said:
That's what happens when you travel to my home town without letting me know. Now get the bird repaired, go fly and don't make the same mistake again!

Oh, and good job landing safely and all that.
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I'm here a few times a month. We have operations in Johnstown, Croton, LaRue, Marion, Marseilles, and Mt. Vic. I keep a hangar at 4I3.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It was a non-issue, he would've made the news in a single. That would have been an issue. ;)

But it still gives you some pucker factor when that happens for real.
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Yeppers. The upholstery has a crease that I hope isn't permanent.
 
James, congrats on keeping a cool head and listening to the voices (Ted) in your head!

BZ!
 
Yep...there's a reason us pain in the a$$ CFI's keep pulling emergency procedures on our students!

Well done, Eggman!!! And kudos to Ted for the good training!
 
Any time you use the declared emergency to ATC you going to get a call from your friendly FAA type who is going to help you. Since the FAA is their to help and they the FAA inspectors have nothing better to do, 709 ride.
 
Get the Aviation Safety Reporting form in the mail today just incase.

NASA has established an Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) to identify issues in the aviation system which need to be addressed. The program of which this system is a part is described in detail in FAA Advisory Circular 00-46E. Your assistance in informing us about such issues is essential to the success of the program. Please fill out this form as completely as possible.
The information you provide on the identity strip will be used only if NASA determines that it is necessary to contact you for further information. THIS IDENTITY STRIP WILL BE RETURNED DIRECTLY TO YOU. The return of the identity strip assures your anonymity.
Section 91.25 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (14 CFR 91.25) prohibits reports filed with NASA from being used for FAA enforcement purposes. This report will not be made available to the FAA for civil penalty or certificate actions for violations of the Federal Air Regulations. Your identity strip, stamped by NASA, is proof that you have submitted a report to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. We can only return the strip to you, however, if you have provided a mailing address. Equally important, we can often obtain additional useful information if our safety analysts can talk with you directly by telephone. For this reason, we have requested telephone numbers where we may reach you.
 
brien23 said:
Any time you use the declared emergency to ATC you going to get a call from your friendly FAA type who is going to help you. Since the FAA is their to help and they the FAA inspectors have nothing better to do, 709 ride.
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That is not true. I've declared emergencies several times, and never had any follow up from the FSDO. When I was flying 135, the inspector was very clear to always default to declaring an emergency.

Lies like what you're telling are what cause pilots to not declare an emergency when they should and set themselves up for an NTSB report.

Filing an ASRS is still a good idea, but you should not fear the FAA for declaring an emergency.
 
brien23 said:
Any time you use the declared emergency to ATC you going to get a call from your friendly FAA type who is going to help you. Since the FAA is their to help and they the FAA inspectors have nothing better to do, 709 ride.
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The inspectors around here have plenty of "better" things to do than give 709 rides for bogus reasons. We are having problems scheduling a line check and we turn into pumpkins at the end of the month, at least as far as 135 is concerned.
 
brien23 said:
Any time you use the declared emergency to ATC you going to get a call from your friendly FAA type who is going to help you. Since the FAA is their to help and they the FAA inspectors have nothing better to do, 709 ride.
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BS.gif
 
Other than a flat tire, that could have happened on a patchy rwy regardless of engine operation, there was nothing that went "wrong" with the landing and plenty that went "right".
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That is not true. I've declared emergencies several times, and never had any follow up from the FSDO. When I was flying 135, the inspector was very clear to always default to declaring an emergency.

Lies like what you're telling are what cause pilots to not declare an emergency when they should and set themselves up for an NTSB report.

Filing an ASRS is still a good idea, but you should not fear the FAA for declaring an emergency.[/QUOTE

You must have a very understanding FSDO, out here they the FAA it's a red flag they jump on with a vengeance.
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brien23 said:
You must have a very understanding FSDO, out here they the FAA it's a red flag they jump on with a vengeance.
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I've declared emergencies in the viscinities of two different FSDOs that I recall, and people are disagreeing with you who have experience with further other FSDOs.

Again, you're spreading lies that pilots on here should not listen to.
 
MikeELP said:
Yep...there's a reason us pain in the a$$ CFI's keep pulling emergency procedures on our students!
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Hat's off!!! to all you good CFI's.

Mine was forever hitting me with, "You lost your engine. What do you do?"

The one time it happened :yikes:, he was in my head and I did what I needed to do. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've declared emergencies in the viscinities of two different FSDOs that I recall, and people are disagreeing with you who have experience with further other FSDOs.

Again, you're spreading lies that pilots on here should not listen to.
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And just how would filling out a ASRS form and sending it in be bad advice.
 
brien23 said:
And just how would filling out a ASRS form and sending it in be bad advice.
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It's not. My reference was to your comments that he should expect a 709 ride.
 
brien23 said:
Any time you use the declared emergency to ATC you going to get a call from your friendly FAA type who is going to help you. Since the FAA is their to help and they the FAA inspectors have nothing better to do, 709 ride.
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LOL. Where would they get your number? If you only knew how overworked FAA ASI are.

It is highly unlikely the OP would be required to complete a 709 ride unless there is something that indicated that the pilot did to contribute to the emergency.

Yes, the incident will be sent over to the FSDO, and the ASI will likely yawn as he closes out the PTRS. Emergencies happen all of the time; usually nothing further happens.

FWIW, I have declared an emergency before when I lost an alternator under IFR in IMC. Nothing further.
 
I've had to declare an emergency several times over many years, and not once did that result in a 709 ride or even a call from the FSDO.
 
I had an emergency situation. I used my authority to declare the emergency to get all the help I could from ATC. They understood and contributed to a successful outcome. Stuff happens and the plane and I will both fly again very soon. If the FAA want to spend their resources to talk to me then so be it.

I would really hate to see another pilot read some comments here and not get help when they need it because they are afraid of the FAA.
 
James_Dean said:
I would really hate to see another pilot read some comments here and not get help when they need it because they are afraid of the FAA.
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Exactly. Certain individuals feel the need to spread lies and misinformation here which is a disservice to the readers and may, as you suggested, convince someone not to use those resources when they need them.
 
James_Dean said:
I had an emergency situation. I used my authority to declare the emergency to get all the help I could from ATC. They understood and contributed to a successful outcome. Stuff happens and the plane and I will both fly again very soon. If the FAA want to spend their resources to talk to me then so be it.

I would really hate to see another pilot read some comments here and not get help when they need it because they are afraid of the FAA.
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:yeahthat:
 
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