I cannot believe what I just saw...

BGF_Yankee

BGF_Yankee

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Winchester, TN
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BGF_Yankee
I just watched an Arrow owner land, leave the aircraft running, vacate the aircraft (still running), hot fuel the aircraft, add oil, and then take a leak behind the self-service fuel terminal. The whole while he's running around the airplane. Said he had to leave it running because the starter didn't want to work this morning and he HAD to make it to Florida. I have more class or I'd post his tail number...*smh* You have gotta be ******** me. And people wonder why accidents happen.

I am mad at myself for two reasons...number one because I didn't stop the whole thing when I had a chance. I just kept telling myself that surely this is not what is happening. Number two though, I'm mad at myself for not documenting the whole incident. Some people NEED a little shaming.

All that being said, I just had a little pow-wow with my employees on what to do the next time anything even remotely close to this happens.
 
I'm sitting in the FBO in Fayetyteville. I probably heard his radio calls while he was coming in. (We hear everything from Cullman, AL to Shelbyville and Winchester, TN.
BTW, I'll be over your way in the next couple of days to buy some of your cheap gas. I'll try to remember to shut my engine off!
 
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What are you going to do? Climb in and shut it down? Throw a rope in the prop? Shaming is OK, I'm all for that. Guess you could have told him to shut it down and you would hand prop him if needed.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I'm sitting in the FBO in Fayetyteville. I probably heard is radio calls while he was coming in. (We hear everything from Cullman, AL to Shelbyville and Winchester, TN.
BTW, I'll be over your way in the next couple of days to buy some of your cheap gas. I'll try to remember to shut my engine off!
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I'm sure you did, but you may not have been able to understand a word he was saying. Sounded like his microphone was in his mouth.
 
I don't know you, but assume you own/operate the location where the plane was. At least, that better be the case.
 
Phoenix said:
What are you going to do? Climb in and shut it down? Throw a rope in the prop? Shaming is OK, I'm all for that. Guess you could have told him to shut it down and you would hand prop him if needed.
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I have remote fuel pump shutdown in the terminal. I should have used it. In hindsight, this would have forced him to either go elsewhere for fuel or come into the building to deal with me over it. I'm not sure what the perfect answer is to this ordeal, but I feel I should have done more.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I'm sure you did, but you may not have been able to understand a word he was saying. Sounded like his microphone was in his mouth.
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I did hear him! I remember those radio calls. I could barely understand him, but there was nothing remarkable about the calls so I don't remember the N-Number.
 
docmirror said:
I don't know you, but assume you own/operate the location where the plane was. At least, that better be the case.
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You are correct. I post this because I too made a mistake in this whole process. I should have stopped it from happening, but the whole time I remember telling myself, "Surely this is not what is happening". If an accident had occurred while it happened, I'm sure my insurance company would not have been happy about it.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I did hear him! I remember those radio calls. I could barely understand him, but there was nothing remarkable about the calls so I don't remember the N-Number.
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PS - By all means, come on up! We're happy to have you and love meeting the people from the forums ;)
 
I know its common sense and all, but I don't see signs saying please shut off engine to fuel. There are about 87 at my local gas station. Not may I've seen at airport fuel points.

Stick up a sign and hit the auto off if some moron tries to hot fuel.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
You are correct. I post this because I too made a mistake in this whole process. I should have stopped it from happening, but the whole time I remember telling myself, "Surely this is not what is happening". If an accident had occurred while it happened, I'm sure my insurance company would not have been happy about it.
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Do FBOs have one of those remote fuel shutoff buttons? Believe it or not, I had to go hit one of those years ago at a gas station. A guy was putting gas in his car, and the auto shutoff didn't work and he was doing his windshield. He tried to get the handle working and spilled a bunch before I hit the button.
 
ChemGuy said:
I know its common sense and all, but I don't see signs saying please shut off engine to fuel. There are about 87 at my local gas station. Not may I've seen at airport fuel points.

Stick up a sign and hit the auto off if some moron tries to hot fuel.
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There are huge signs in front of our pumps that say that...as well as full instructions on how to fuel (if they've never done it before)
 
Add oil? With the prop turning? I wonder how much actually got into the crankcase vs. on the windshield.
 
I might have been shocked into silence on that one myself but also my crude Texan side could come out and I might have walked out there and asked the guy "what the **** are you doing?" in just that tone.

Too bad you didn't tape it so you could out him with a utube viral video.

You'll be ready next time. Master shutdown then walk out there and ask what the **** are you doing? FBO manager is like Captain of the tarmac. You have a lot of authority.
 
docmirror said:
Do FBOs have one of those remote fuel shutoff buttons? Believe it or not, I had to go hit one of those years ago at a gas station. A guy was putting gas in his car, and the auto shutoff didn't work and he was doing his windshield. He tried to get the handle working and spilled a bunch before I hit the button.
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That happened to me the other day. Auto shutoff did not work and gas started gushing out of my car. Fortunately I was standing right there and stopped it within 2 seconds.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I just watched an Arrow owner land, leave the aircraft running, vacate the aircraft (still running), hot fuel the aircraft, add oil, and then take a leak behind the self-service fuel terminal.
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Wait...he added oil with the engine running? Oh lord.
 
Brad Z said:
Wait...he added oil with the engine running? Oh lord.
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:yikes:

Did this aircraft have one of those little dipstick ports or he actually stood there and opened up the whole side of the cowling with the engine running (either way still insane).
 
I know at least one stunt like that which resulted in said idiot accidently bumping the throttle while getting out of the airplane which quickly ran into a fence.
 
James331 said:
Do something about it? "Document" it? WTF?

Was he a imminent threat to you?

I've hot fueled and loaded, of course I was in the plane, but that's just me.

So what did you tell your employee to do?

Maybe just worry about your own life.
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Just curious: On the face of it, what this guy did sounds crazy -- but upon analysis was there really much risk?

Presumably he set the brake, then chocked the plane when he got out? Presuming an empty, sterile ramp (no kids running around, etc.) other than the chance of him tripping and falling into the whirling Ginsu Knives of Death, is there anything inherently dangerous about fueling an aircraft with the engine running?
 
JasonM said:
Where did he hook up the ground wire?
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hook the ground wire to a tie-down ring - SOP

fuel hose near prop, better be careful

add oil while running? fugitaboutit, too close to the cusinart (I know, A&Ps adjust fuel controllers with the engine running...)

trust Piper brakes? fugitaboutit

I'm pretty solidly in the shut down for fueling camp...
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just curious: On the face of it, what this guy did sounds crazy -- but upon analysis was there really much risk?

Presumably he set the brake, then chocked the plane when he got out? Presuming an empty, sterile ramp (no kids running around, etc.) other than the chance of him tripping and falling into the whirling Ginsu Knives of Death, is there anything inherently dangerous about fueling an aircraft with the engine running?
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No worse then using a tablesaw, safer then a chainsaw. Hot fueling isn't 'bad' it just isn't usually necessary. Hot adding oil might not be a good idea for several reasons...
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just curious: On the face of it, what this guy did sounds crazy -- but upon analysis was there really much risk?

Presumably he set the brake, then chocked the plane when he got out? Presuming an empty, sterile ramp (no kids running around, etc.) other than the chance of him tripping and falling into the whirling Ginsu Knives of Death, is there anything inherently dangerous about fueling an aircraft with the engine running?
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It was an Arrow so chances are the fuel hose ended up close to the prop. It shouldn't be a problem but I sure don't want to accidentally pull a loop of hose into the prop.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I just watched an Arrow owner land, leave the aircraft running, vacate the aircraft (still running), hot fuel the aircraft, add oil, and then take a leak behind the self-service fuel terminal.
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1. When I go to Fabens TX Airport, the crop dusters fuel with the engine running all the time <shudder>:goofy:
2. Adding oil while its running is a real stupid move. How does he even know it's low?

3. More importantly, you should have gave him a swift kick in the arse when he was taking a leak.
:lol:
 
Lots of questions...let's see:

Ran the hose behind the plane (so at least that made sense)
Bonded to the tail tie-down
Yes, added oil while running to the normal location
And there's plenty of risk involved with this entire event.
 
There has been no discussion as to the "Why" he "Had" to be in Florida. Is there a scenario in which you would justify doing the same thing? Be creative enough and I bet most all of us would. I agree, not a smart thing and so much could have gone wrong.
 
the NAVY hot re-fuels and even changes crews with all running. not a big deal.

What you see that you've never seen before isn't always dangerous.

but I'd bet that NTSB would have burned him alive if he had an accident.
 
Tom-D said:
the NAVY hot re-fuels and even changes crews with all running. not a big deal.

What you see that you've never seen before isn't always dangerous.

but I'd bet that NTSB would have burned him alive if he had an accident.
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Tom, hot fueling in the Navy is SOP. We TRAIN for that. It is a routine operation and multiple people are involved all of whom are qualified or working under qualified supervision. And, because it's Navy....there are always safety observers present.

You cannot compare what we do in the Navy to a single pilot hot-fueling an Arrow at an FBO.
 
denisd said:
There has been no discussion as to the "Why" he "Had" to be in Florida. Is there a scenario in which you would justify doing the same thing? Be creative enough and I bet most all of us would. I agree, not a smart thing and so much could have gone wrong.
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Does the reason really matter? Does it really change the ADM process?

Sounds like gethereitis. Is there a valid reason for a civil pilot to fly through a thunderstorm?
 
The man was successful in his endeavor? The horrors. The frustrated hall monitors are working overtime again.
 
slinger said:
The man was successful in his endeavor? The horrors. The frustrated hall monitors are working overtime again.
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I'm good with that, but I'd bet if the guy had sliced and diced himself the widow would have found some way to sue the airport into the ground.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I'm good with that, but I'd bet if the guy had sliced and diced himself the widow would have found some way to sue the airport into the ground.
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Agreed, sir, and that's the trouble. People need to let people be. This sue happy environment is part of what's killing out "Grand Experiment".
Blue skies and green lights to you.
 
slinger said:
The man was successful in his endeavor? The horrors. The frustrated hall monitors are working overtime again.
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A student wearing a hat in the hallway of a high school is somewhat different than hot-fueling a plane with no one at the controls. A little bit of Murphy's Law and a whole lot of bad could have happened.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Tom, hot fueling in the Navy is SOP. We TRAIN for that.
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Inherently I agree there's nothing particularly crazy about re-fuling with the engine running. However hot fueling with a highly trained crew using a "pitstop" approach is a heck of a lot different than some dumbass doing it all by himself and then leaving the thing running while he goes and takes a wizz. Also, the whole adding oil with the engine running is also particularly special.
 
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