I can never fly again.

[EdFred]

Ok. Hubby reminded me that I have flown into PHL and it was so dramatic that ...

... I have forgotten about it.

 

[Anthony]

All I know is that when they finally retire the B-52 its going to be HELL finding a runway I can use. Azores, maybe???

 

[EdFred]

All I know is that when they finally retire the B-52 its going to be HELL finding a runway I can use. Azores, maybe???

You have a hard enough time finding runways regardless of length!!!

 

[Anthony]

You have a hard enough time finding runways regardless of length!!!

That's what the magic box is for. They've even got one in brail now. I just close my eyes and feel the screen for the runway.

 

[wsuffa]

All I know is that when they finally retire the B-52 its going to be HELL finding a runway I can use. Azores, maybe???

Not retired yet....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

All I know is that when they finally retire the B-52 its going to be HELL finding a runway I can use. Azores, maybe???

SAW - buffs are long gone, but the runway remains.
"75 FT PAVED SHOULDERS EACH SIDE"

 

[EdFred]

SAW - buffs are long gone, but the runway remains.
"75 FT PAVED SHOULDERS EACH SIDE"

Which was also the airport being used in my scenario.

 

[Anthony]

SAW - buffs are long gone, but the runway remains.
"75 FT PAVED SHOULDERS EACH SIDE"

Oh, thank God. I can now sleep better at night.

 

[ApacheBob]

Good one, Ed Fred!B)

 

[el con]

+1! My dad has been a pilot since the early 70's and I've flown with him since I was five. He earned his instrument rating, but just was never comfortable flying in those conditions... He just wanted to have the knowledge just in case he was ever inadvertantly put into something like that. He's definitedly not complacent.

Me, I'm a private and very, very careful. I make sure that every flight is very well planned and that I'm gonna know what I have to do.

I don't like to hear this, either. Maybe your limitations are completely different from someone else's. (Personally, I wouldn't fly into Gaston's at night with no lights... but, that's just me.)

Was this your Dad's way of stretching is abilities to be better?,yes, I think exactly what the subject is about, knowing what to do,and more importantly being able to do what is necessary in case you get in a situation beyond your planning.He only wanted to be a VFR pilot,but he pushed further.
A great example!
Sound's like a wise man
On Ed's Gaston landings, well, I know that I practice landings at night now without runway light's, and without my landing light's on just in case of equipment failure in the air or on the ground. It's amazing how much you can actually see from the air vs. from the ground when you actually do it.
Of course this is being careful of wildlife on the ground and not with other aircraft in the air. Do we do it all the time,no, but it's not a frightful experience if it happens for real.

 

[el con]

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
...over mountains.
...at night.
...in a single.
**...to a grass field.
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
...in IMC (even when IR rated!)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...in the winter.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

That's my only real "restriction" and it has less to do with a "won't land at a grass strip ever" (I realize the chances of a grass strip being in bad enough condition to cause a serious problem are minimal at worst) with "can't see a good reason to do it". I just don't see the allure a lot of people do in landing on a rough strip of grass. Quite a few of you all look at it as something nearly akin to a religious experience, but that's the beauty of freedom: you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

Several of the others (IMC, mountain flying, etc) are obviously not options since I'm not in possession of my instrument rating, etc. Beyond that, I evaluate everything on a case-by-case basis. As for runway width and length, it's just a matter of personal preference to stick with the larger runways, but if I have no other choice or the rewards of landing at a small field are sufficient, I'd do it so long as I have a reasonable chance of being able to perform it safely.



I always remind people that not getting off the couch or even out of bed carries with it a separate set of risks (blood clots, coronary events, bed sores, intractable boredom, etc).

Now Steve, have you ever driven your car on a gravel road?
Grass is not a religious experience , just one you should try, very forgiving,and yeah don't do it when it's mud.
Grass airport's are kind of like the road less traveled and close to a lot of great new places. Please stop by 6Y9 ,you meet the nicest people (pilot's)there

 

[Ted]

Was this your Dad's way of stretching is abilities to be better?,yes, I think exactly what the subject is about, knowing what to do,and more importantly being able to do what is necessary in case you get in a situation beyond your planning.He only wanted to be a VFR pilot,but he pushed further.
A great example!
Sound's like a wise man

I couldn't have said it better. We all have our own purposes for flying which require different abilities, skill sets, and risk tolerances. That part's fine. Those who fly for fun have a different set of requirements than those who use flying as a serious mode of transport, and that's not an issue. However, I've known a number of pilots who went out and had unexpected changes in conditions on them (weather can be unpredictable at times), and then found themselves in uncomfortable situations. Getting an IFR rating without the intention of using it except as an emergency out is fine, just like I plan on getting some aerobatic and unusual attitude recovery training, but I sure won't be doing spins or hammerhead stalls in the Aztec. I will do approaches to mins, though (done two in the past 6 weeks).

 

[EdFred]

I couldn't have said it better. We all have our own purposes for flying which require different abilities, skill sets, and risk tolerances. That part's fine. Those who fly for fun have a different set of requirements than those who use flying as a serious mode of transport, and that's not an issue. However, I've known a number of pilots who went out and had unexpected changes in conditions on them (weather can be unpredictable at times), and then found themselves in uncomfortable situations. Getting an IFR rating without the intention of using it except as an emergency out is fine, just like I plan on getting some aerobatic and unusual attitude recovery training, but I sure won't be doing spins or hammerhead stalls in the Aztec. I will do approaches to mins, though (done two in the past 6 weeks).

You won't....but if you don't lock the doors.....

 

[fastair5]

Thanks EdFred...somebody in the aviation community needed to state that!

 

[Jack Spectre]

I just don't see the allure a lot of people do in landing on a rough strip of grass. Quite a few of you all look at it as something nearly akin to a religious experience...

Have you ever landed on a well maintained grass strip? Many are soft and wide and very forgiving. Maybe not religious...but luxurious. I landed at a nice one a couple of times with a CFI on board (during training). Now I can't really until I get my own bird.

Around here a lot of the paved runways are 75' wide, and quite a few grass strips are 150' wide.

Seriously, if you haven't tried it, I'd highly recommend it.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

That's my only real "restriction" and it has less to do with a "won't land at a grass strip ever" (I realize the chances of a grass strip being in bad enough condition to cause a serious problem are minimal at worst) with "can't see a good reason to do it".

Sometimes that's all there is unless you want to rent a car and drive.

You want a Chicken Dinner? You are landing on grass (66G).

 

[steingar]

Sure will, but the OP makes it clear that those of us who live and fly over significant Eastern Mountains are "wusses" because we may pause before launching over them SEL at night in IMC.

I 've done it, but the pucker factor was high. I was solo. I won't subject passengers to a level of risk they cannot knowledgeably assess and assent to.

I try to stay away from cumulogranite at night, even the midget rocks we have in the East. The engine doesn't know where it is, but I do. I would fly over them at night if I had to, but I haven't had to so far.

I don't like going over mountain obscuration, but had to last time I flew over. It was either that or chance a hurricane, and I found the mountains, as ensheathed as they were, far more inviting.

Our diminutive mountains do have their own issues, do make weather, and do eat airplanes. They are not as ferocious as the ones out west and need fewer specialized skills, but they are not without their own inherent risks. I can't blame any one who does not wish to traverse them; they would be a poor place for any sort of emergency.

 

[Ted]

I would fly over them at night if I had to, but I haven't had to so far.

This is a concept that's always intrigued me, as I say the same thing. Good example was Saturday night when I chose to spend the night at Adam's instead of poking my way through the thunderstorms to get home. I looked at it and thought "I could do it if I had to, but I don't."

We always have this thought of "have to", but the reality is we can always choose to stay on the ground. Some just do more than others. In my case, the concept of "Have to" really means I have a purpose associated with the mission, rather than it just being fun. I have scrubbed flights because I didn't want to deal with shooting an ILS to mins that night, but I've then shot an ILS to mins when a purpose was associated with the mission. I shot a GPS to mins similarly on Friday, when there was a mission to accomplish.

I think there's a difference between this "Have to" and "Get-there-itis." The latter is when you make stupid decisions that you shouldn't make. The former is when some motivating factor causes you to push your boundaries or do something you otherwise might not normally do (safely), and ultimately help improve your skill set and proficiency, while teaching you something.

 

[Anthony]

Maybe I could request one of those Ice Carriers that they were developing during WWII?

 

[dmccormack]

I try to stay away from cumulogranite at night, even the midget rocks we have in the East. The engine doesn't know where it is, but I do. I would fly over them at night if I had to, but I haven't had to so far.

I don't like going over mountain obscuration, but had to last time I flew over. It was either that or chance a hurricane, and I found the mountains, as ensheathed as they were, far more inviting.

Our diminutive mountains do have their own issues, do make weather, and do eat airplanes. They are not as ferocious as the ones out west and need fewer specialized skills, but they are not without their own inherent risks. I can't blame any one who does not wish to traverse them; they would be a poor place for any sort of emergency.

Well said.

My biggest issue with SEL at night over the Alleghenies is engine out options -- there are few to none. When I've done the crossing at night I've asked for routings over airports, but...

"You cain't always get what you wa-ont."

So there are a few stretches where the NRST button shows 49NM as the nearest field. Hmmmm...

I posted somewhere on here about SPIFR flight with thunderstorms in the vicinity at night over the mountains. I pushed my boundaries, completed the flight, but was glad to be on the ground.

I simply don't make that scenario a habit. Call me a wuss -- I could care less.

 

[steingar]

Good sense does not make one a wuss. I'm certain it will come up one of these days. That said, I'll do my damnedest to do the mountainous portion of the flight in daylight. But schedules are known to slip, and I could see myself doing it. I doubt I would eat a hotel bill solely to avoid flying over the mountains in darkness. And if I have to get back to my dogs, well, that's just how it is.

That said, I would have to have awfully good wx to be poking around the rocks at night. And awfully good wx in the mountains of the east is a hard thing to come by in my experience.

 

[EdFred]

I simply don't make that scenario a habit. Call me a wuss -- I could care less.

So, you DO care.

 

[SteveinIndy]

Bit geographically challenged. Head East a little ways and you'll find mountains aplenty.

I know about the Appalachians, but I was referring to my immediate vincinity (roughly 100 miles).

You want a Chicken Dinner? You are landing on grass (66G).

Or you can land at KHYX about 6 miles away and drive to get the so-so chicken in Frankenmuth. I used to live in Saginaw....not impressed that much by the chicken and even less so by the town: "Frankenmuth- where Christmas threw up and stereotypes about Germans abound".

What cow pastures are you flying into? Grass strips =! rough.

See the aformentioned 66G. I've been in kickboxing matches where my balls were slammed around less.

Sometimes that's all there is unless you want to rent a car and drive.

Normally you have to do that anyhow if you're going somewhere other than the airport at your destination and don't have friends in the area.

Have you ever landed on a well maintained grass strip?

Not as a PIC, but I've been into a couple where they were allegedly well maintained and still found them to be more bumpy than the gravel road I grew up on (the one the county never bothered to grate after spring thaw so the residents did it themselves).

Now Steve, have you ever driven your car on a gravel road?

I grew up in a town of 125-150 people (depending on who was doing the counting and the season). See above comment about the state of the road I grew up on.

Grass airport's are kind of like the road less traveled and close to a lot of great new places.

Most of the places I want to go either have or are within decent driving distance of a paved runway.

Please stop by 6Y9 ,you meet the nicest people (pilot's)there

If it wasn't so far I might consider driving up. Not this year, since I'll be on my honeymoon in Maryland but you see my point. Flying there is not going to happen since I'm expressly banned from landing at grass strips (except in an emergency) by the people I rent from even if I had the desire to fly into one. When are you guys going to organize a major/annual get together that involves something other than a grass strip?

 

[Ted]

When are you guys going to organize a major/annual get together that involves something other than a grass strip?

It's called the Wings Fly-B-Q. Happens every year at KLOM, come on out.

Also, a bunch of us get together at Osh. When I landed there, it seemed paved, although I had to share the runway with 3 Mooneys on arrival.

If the people you rent from forbid you from landing on grass, then obviously there's nothing you can do about that. However, I suggest to you that those on here who have many years and hundreds of hours more experience than you as a student pilot might have a clue of what they're talking about. You hold some very strong opinions for someone with your experience level (or lack thereof).

 

[dmccormack]

So, you DO care.

Let me break it down for you, Ed, as apparently you have a reading comprehension problem:


No, I don't.


My tough guy card is all filled up, but you apparently need to use an airplane to get punches in yours.

Have at it.

 

[EdFred]

Let me break it down for you, Ed, as apparently you have a reading comprehension problem:


No, I don't.


My tough guy card is all filled up, but you apparently need to use an airplane to get punches in yours.

Have at it.

Nope, no comprehension problem. Seems you have a problem expressing what you want to say. If you truly don't care you would have said "I couldn't care less." The fact that you said you COULD care less means there is room to care even less.

Example
I couldn't go any slower: I was stopped
I could go slower: I was going pretty slow, but I could still have been stopped

I couldn't care less: I have no concern about it whatsoever.
I could care less: I don't have much concern, but I could have no concern.

But, you knew that because you are the smartest, manliest person to ever grace this board.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Frankenmuth- where Christmas threw up and stereotypes about Germans abound".

LOL!!!

See the aformentioned 66G. I've been in kickboxing matches where my balls were slammed around less.

Well, I've never been in a kickboxing match so I can't compare.

 

[steingar]

Yeah, I'm insufficiently studly to have done the kickboxing thing. But I have landed a number of grass strips. I'm really looking forward to the Lee Bottom fly-in later in September. That's one of the best ones to which I've been.

 

[EdFred]

Sounds like the Princess and the Pea in here in regards to grass strips.
0h N0z! Th3re's 4 bl4d3 0f gr455 gr0w'n 1n teh runwayz!!!

 

[steingar]

Sounds like the Princess and the Pea in here in regards to grass strips.
0h N0z! Th3re's 4 bl4d3 0f gr455 gr0w'n 1n teh runwayz!!!

Now now, the fellow is entitled. I don't land them often because I don't want grass stains on my wheel pants. My airplane, my druthers, and that's how it is.

 

[EdFred]

Now now, the fellow is entitled. I don't land them often because I don't want grass stains on my wheel pants. My airplane, my druthers, and that's how it is.

I don't have wheel pants.

 

[steingar]

I don't have wheel pants.

No, you have wheel wells on that airplane I'm not going to get to see cryin: ) which can get just as dirty if not more so, and are even more difficult to clean (at least my wheel pants come off).

 

[EdFred]

No, you have wheel wells on that airplane I'm not going to get to see cryin: ) which can get just as dirty if not more so, and are even more difficult to clean (at least my wheel pants come off).

Nothing a couple 0-G rolls through a rain shower won't fix.

 

[Dr. O]

Interesting about Frankenmuth... I'm a local with my plane at HYX... Been around Frankenmuth all my life... We were in Colorado at a japanese steak house and the topic of Frankenmuth came up from the other 3 couples (strangers) at the table... When they found I was just up the road, they exclaimed, I bet you eat there all the time... They were properly shocked when I said that not only do I not go eat there, but I drive around the town, not through it...
"How could you.", was the cry..
Well, Frankenmuth is for tourists, not locals... It is like Las Vegas, where the locals do not set foot on the strip... That is for suckers, err, tourists, as they say...

denny-o

 

[silver-eagle]

There's nothing wrong with personal limits but if you treated driving like you treat flying, there are days you wouldn't leave the garage. I'd bet more people drive WAY beyond their capabilities than fly and the consequences could be more severe. If you're limiting yourself because you need more practice, get a CFI and GO FLY!
Ed isn't encouraging recklessness, just working on expanding YOUR capabilities.
Add to the list.... Flying VFR in or around or NEAR a presidential TFR. There's ways to do it right.

 

[SteveinIndy]

It's called the Wings Fly-B-Q. Happens every year at KLOM, come on out.

I'll do my best.

However, I suggest to you that those on here who have many years and hundreds of hours more experience than you as a student pilot might have a clue of what they're talking about. You hold some very strong opinions for someone with your experience level (or lack thereof).

Like the saying goes, the mileage of others may vary. In my case, I have limited experience with grass runways and all of that experience has been bad. So why would I want to repeat one of the few unpleasant aspects of flying that I've encountered? Even if others enjoy it, I simply don't. It isn't really a safety concern as much as I just don't enjoy landing on unpaved runways. I guess runways are a lot like wine: it depends as much on the tastes of the person as what the stuff is made out of, if not more so.

 

[Ted]

There are a lot of things that aren't that enjoyable the first time you try them, and later turn out to be great joys. For me, the best example of that is flying. I had precisely zero desire to fly after my first experience. Fast forward 9 months after that and I got bit by the bug, hard. Fast forward 2 years and here I am today. Just because you didn't like something the first time you tried it doesn't mean it's no fun or no good.

 

[silver-eagle]

There are a lot of things that aren't that enjoyable the first time you try them, and later turn out to be great joys. For me, the best example of that is flying. I had precisely zero desire to fly after my first experience. Fast forward 9 months after that and I got bit by the bug, hard. Fast forward 2 years and here I am today. Just because you didn't like something the first time you tried it doesn't mean it's no fun or no good.

I thought about the same way about beer way back when. Had I given THAT up, think of the money I'd have saved! The same is true for flying. Why, I could be RICH!
Thank Dog I don't have any other vices.

 

[Ted]

I thought about the same way about beer way back when. Had I given THAT up, think of the money I'd have saved! The same is true for flying. Why, I could be RICH!
Thank Dog I don't have any other vices.

As an dyslexic agnostic insomniac, I stay up all night wondering if there is a Dog.

 

[gismo]

There are a lot of things that aren't that enjoyable the first time you try them, and later turn out to be great joys. For me, the best example of that is flying. I had precisely zero desire to fly after my first experience. Fast forward 9 months after that and I got bit by the bug, hard. Fast forward 2 years and here I am today. Just because you didn't like something the first time you tried it doesn't mean it's no fun or no good.

Some folks thrive on challenges and others avoid them. That either is their choice and that's fine by me.