Human Factors

S

Stache

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
381
Location
Yamagata, Japan
Display Name
Display name:
Stache
Within aviation there is a big push on human factors training. During my years in aviation I have attended many accident courses and each class attended had a human factor section. The reason for this is human factors plays into every thing in life we do especially aviation accidents, piloting and maintenance. Doctor Scott Shappell has studied and written many books and articles on human factors and I have noticed even Dr. Phill from the TV show has done so also. Dr. Phill wrote Ten Life Laws and I have found the first law to fit in our aviation world.

Life Law #1: You either get it, or you don't.
Become one of those who gets it.

“It's easy to tell these people apart. Those who "get it" understand how things work and have a strategy to create the results they want. Those who don't are stumbling along looking puzzled, and can be found complaining that they never seem to get a break.

You must do what it takes to accumulate enough knowledge to "get it." You need to operate with the information and skills that are necessary to win. Be prepared, tune in, find out how the game is played and play by the rules.

In designing a strategy and getting the information you need about yourself, people you encounter, or situations be careful from whom you accept input. Wrong thinking and misinformation can seal your fate before you even begin.”

Here on the forum I find many those of us are willing to discuss and argue points back and forth because we want to get it. We may not always agree, but the discussion is apparent we are willing to talk about it because we want to learn.

I sometimes will post messages to that may create discussion as in “swinging compasses”. I have to wonder how many were educated about compass roses surveys, radios, proper tooling and experience required to perform the compass swing.

Yes, the compass is a simple instrument it may seem like a minor instrument today with GPS and other navigation stuff in aircraft, but nonetheless it is still required. What I was surprised was the out cry of from some wanting to tack my butt to the wall and have me fired from my day job, threatening to contact their congress person, or APOA go after me and my day job. As Dr. Phill stated you either get it or not. I would hope this Forum doesn’t turn into a shark fest because you may not agree with an argument.

Forums are designed to educate and have discussions as part of the learning process. You can agree or disagree, but please no personal attacks or threats just provide your arguments.

As always just one man’s opinion and nothing more you can agree or disagree. Thanks for your consideration. I hope someday we can all sit down and have a beer together.

Merry Christmas to all.
 
Stache, i for one appreciate you being here, and hope that there is plenty more to come. If I ever get to Oakland or you get to Iowa, the Beer is on me.
 
Stache said:

Life Law #1: You either get it, or you don't.
Become one of those who gets it.

I sometimes will post messages to that may create discussion as in “swinging compasses”. I have to wonder how many were educated about compass roses surveys, radios, proper tooling and experience required to perform the compass swing.

Yes, the compass is a simple instrument it may seem like a minor instrument today with GPS and other navigation stuff in aircraft, but nonetheless it is still required. What I was surprised was the out cry of from some wanting to tack my butt to the wall and have me fired from my day job, threatening to contact their congress person, or APOA go after me and my day job. As Dr. Phill stated you either get it or not. I would hope this Forum doesn’t turn into a shark fest because you may not agree with an argument.
Click to expand...

Golly, even my old girl-friend could swing a compass pretty good.
She said she knew the whiskey compass was the flight instrument jumping around front of her forehead.
 
I think part of the hue and cry was due to the fact that you're an FAA employee, and thus in a position of power over the general population of this forum. People tend to get EXTRA irate when they disagree with someone in that position, because your positional authority robs others of the ability to tell themselves that it's just your opinion and has no more value than any other opinion.

So if you and Ron say the same thing, and folks perceive it as being incorrect, they can pretty much argue with Ron and if they don't convince him of his error, no real harm done, Ron isn't able to take away anyone's privileges. You, as an Inspector, are a different story.

Note - I haven't checked the thread to see if anyone got different answers from FAA HQ on the compass issue, so I don't know how (or if) any agreement was reached. I'm just trying to explain why you may spark more controversy than others, based on your job.

Best wishes,
 
FWIW, when Ron asked AFS-300 a few years ago, Ron got the same answer as Stache posted. Tom Downey is the only person who says he got a different answer from anyone, and has not posted an answer from AFS-300.
 
Tim will be interested to see if there's an answer this time. Tim will think highly of Tom if he posts the answer, regardless of whether it agrees with his position.

Tim knows that like all government regulation, the FARs are subject to various local, regional, and national interpretations. And even when there is a Chief Counsel opinion that supposedly clarifies things, enforcement is still subject to local/regional variances.

Or, as one of Tim's FLETC instructors said once - "The congress and courts are the ones who work on the teeny tiny details. Out in the field we just try to apply some common sense and do the best we can."

Tim now feels like Bob Dole (sans blue pill). Tim also hopes Ron realizes that my previous post was not intented to be slighting towards him in any way.
 
Last edited:
Tim and Ron have gone to the Bo Jackson School of Public Speaking.:D
 
BTW, Stache, that was a very calm, composed response to the situation. Things spin out of hand pretty quickly in onlineworld. Your posting could have been posted by any number of people!
 
Well, as noted over in the thread on Cirrii, you can either attempt to regulate ignorance/stupidity/incompetence out of the system, with all sorts of unintended consequences, or you can let life apply the lessons.

Where you draw the balance between freedoms and responsibilities depends on how much you're willing to spend to fix the small part of the system that's the problem.

As we say in the IT world, a solution that satisfies 80% of all requirements is good value for a cost of X. going for 90% costs around 10X, and for each percentage point thereafter is a logarithmically increasing cost.
 
First thanks guys. For those of you who have meet me in person you will find I am just down to earth and still carry a wrench and rag in my back pocket. I have never forgotten where I came from. I still have to walk a tight rope sometimes, but that comes with the job. If someone contacts me I will bend over backwards to assist him or her on the job or off that’s my nature.

I would rather have those on the forum know me as Stache and not as a regulator. I have owned an aviation business, gone for broke, employed other A&P’s, and sold the company.

I don’t like to think of myself in a position of authority I have no authority. In my position I am required to assist the aviation community and keep aviators out of trouble that’s my job. However, there are a few in the community that endanger the group and my position is to make sure they don’t hurt anyone. I am never on a witch-hunt, but have read many things on the forum that I know may not be right, so I may suggest or recommend something to help someone. I am not the all knowing and make my share of mistakes that’s how we learn. Someone not making mistakes is not learning.

If anyone is near Oakland (OAK) I would enjoy having lunch or coffee with you.
 
Stache said:
If someone contacts me I will bend over backwards to assist him or her on the job or off that’s my nature.
Click to expand...

Did I mention I can personally attest to this? I wish all the FAA guys i have dealt with were as responsive and helpful as you!
 
Stache said:
What I was surprised was the out cry of from some wanting to tack my butt to the wall and have me fired from my day job, threatening to contact their congress person, or APOA go after me and my day job.
Click to expand...

Start Rant:

This is sort of unrelated but something that I have observed over time. I really like to watch people. I have spent most of my life interacting with people on the internet as much as I have interacting with people in the real world. It's two completely different things. There are people that you will not get along with on the internet. You meet them in person and you'll be best friends. There comes a time where you cannot ever agree with something on the internet with a person. When this happens you can either ignore it and forget about it or you can meet the person in real life and resolve it. This is common in the business world. You might be able to close some major sale with someone you've never met face to face. You'll talk to another person and end up going to meet them. It's the only way you can make it work.

The problem with the internet is all you have are words. There are no emotions. In the real world people are much more cautious about what they say to someones face. The real world puts you on the spot. You don't have three hours to sit and decide how to ridicule someone. You either keep your mouth shut and everyone is happy or you confront the person and face the results of such.

There are some people who never really develop an understanding for interaction in the real world. They can't instantly think of a response. They don't know how to send the signals to tell someone to shut their mouth. Most of us figured this all out at a very young age by trial and error.

Now you take these people. These people who can't interact properly in the real world and you stick them on the internet. Give them nothing but words. They don't have to worry about interaction anymore. They will instantly start to attack people. They will talk everyone down. They will think they are god. They are finally on their own level playing field. You can't do anything about it.

Basically what I'm telling you Stache ... There will be people on the internet that try to take things too far. Ignore them.
 
bbchien said:
So the $64 question is, how do we (besides relying on Darwin) cull out the ones that Don't Get IT?
Click to expand...

We don't need to there is a whole process that does it for us. It just, unfortunately takes time, and reflect poorly on the rest of us when it does happen to make a correction.
 
Nice try, I didn't say I was going to contact my representatives about you. I said I was going to call them about your office. I sent your posts to my PMI. To see what he thinks.

I wish I could be as sure as you that I was in the group that "gets it" but, I'm just not sure.

Even if your office interpitation is correct, the rule would be wrong and should be changed. If you don't agree maybe your in the group that doesn't get it?

I just got back from a trip to OK City the United plane I flew out on was hit by lighting on the way in, it says in 43.13-1B that a compass swing must be preformed after lighting strike. I never saw the plane pull away form the gate in the blinding snow storm for the compass swing maybe they have it written into their Maint man. that they don't have to do it?

Hell if I know????

Sure stop in for a beer when your up I will buy the first one.
 
Tim said:
Nice try, I didn't say I was going to contact my representatives about you. I said I was going to call them about your office. I sent your posts to my PMI. To see what he thinks.

I wish I could be as sure as you that I was in the group that "gets it" but, I'm just not sure.

Even if your office interpitation is correct, the rule would be wrong and should be changed. If you don't agree maybe your in the group that doesn't get it?

I just got back from a trip to OK City the United plane I flew out on was hit by lighting on the way in, it says in 43.13-1B that a compass swing must be preformed after lighting strike. I never saw the plane pull away form the gate in the blinding snow storm for the compass swing maybe they have it written into their Maint man. that they don't have to do it?

Hell if I know????

Sure stop in for a beer when your up I will buy the first one.
Click to expand...

Tim I will certainly stop by if I get up North again. I have learned more over a beer than a text book.

Stache
 
Stache said:
Tim I will certainly stop by if I get up North again. I have learned more over a beer than a text book.

Stache
Click to expand...


Your on.. dang that was quick! I would have liked going to the center in OK City but didn't have time and then Blizzard hit. Lighting in a snow storm? Kind of different from this area.
 
Ron Levy said:
FWIW, when Ron asked AFS-300 a few years ago, Ron got the same answer as Stache posted. Tom Downey is the only person who says he got a different answer from anyone, and has not posted an answer from AFS-300.
Click to expand...

I believe you should take a look, I posted it after work today, that's when I get to read my mail..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top