How would you fly this route?

[Dave Anderson]

A little help to a lower time PIC. I want to fly to Accomac often and I have the necessary SFRA work done and have done that twice. But I also know that I won’t always be guaranteed entry so I’m planning my alternatives.

The MOA and restricted areas concern me as they might be active and pose problems.

I can get the Bravo at BWI with clearance but that isn’t a guarantee. So, I’m looking at a N route but every other weekend I now also have to traverse the TFR. South is also a possibility but again lots of restricted airspace and more water.

Would love some thoughts or insights. I typically would do flight following so that should help with the restricted areas.

 

[Clip4]

Will a route on the east side of the bay allow under flight of the Restricted Airspace below 3500.

 

[AlleyCat67]

Your northern route takes you through the Camp David P-40 area, which will make both you and the US Navy unhappy.

FWIW I’ve never been denied entry into the SFRA - just file before you depart. I’ve been denied Class B clearance through BWI airspace plenty of times. Just fly FDK (above the Delta or get cleared through), GAI, ANP, CGE, and then direct. As Clip4 said, R-4006 starts at 3500 so just plan to fly below. The GAI-ANP route can be done below 2500. Also, I like the direct shot across the Bay near Easton to minimize over-water time, then turning south once on the Eastern Shore.

 

[GeorgeC]

KHGR CPTAL VPONX* VPOOP* 3W3 KCGE KMFV

The water is cold. If you cross the bay at 3400, at least you'll be able to glide to shore.

* Look at the flyway altitudes on the back of the TAC, but don't be surprised if others don't follow them...

A northerly route would take you around P40 to Gettysburg, then hang a right at Havre de Grace... which sometimes gets pinched off by a Wilmington TFR these days.

 

[Brad W]

It's been many years since I've flown that area.... but only just based on quick glance of the chart and your route, why not go around the West side of the DC area TFR? Looks like you'd miss all the airspace issues and by eye it looks to be roughly the same distance...

 

[GMascelli]

I would try WOOLY BAL JAYBO Direct at 7.5 coming east. Once across the bay ask for lower to transit the R-4006 under 3500. I usually file back and forth to HGR but have been through VFR. Be on your radio A game and pick up the Bravo clearance. Most they can do is say no, then have a plan B ready.

 

[Dave Anderson]

Your northern route takes you through the Camp David P-40 area, which will make both you and the US Navy unhappy.

FWIW I’ve never been denied entry into the SFRA - just file before you depart. I’ve been denied Class B clearance through BWI airspace plenty of times. Just fly FDK (above the Delta or get cleared through), GAI, ANP, CGE, and then direct. As Clip4 said, R-4006 starts at 3500 so just plan to fly below. The GAI-ANP route can be done below 2500. Also, I like the direct shot across the Bay near Easton to minimize over-water time, then turning south once on the Eastern Shore.

Good catch, I 'm used to it so just threw this together for the post. I usually fly well north of it on a northern route.

 

[Dave Anderson]

I would try WOOLY BAL JAYBO Direct at 7.5 coming east. Once across the bay ask for lower to transit the R-4006 under 3500. I usually file back and forth to HGR but have been through VFR. Be on your radio A game and pick up the Bravo clearance. Most they can do is say no, then have a plan B ready.
View attachment 103249

The PLAN B is what I am after. I've flown this route twice, but I've heard a few get denied a Bravo clearance if BWI is on a push. The SFRA clearance is usually good, but the bravo can be problematic.

 

[Dave Anderson]

Will a route on the east side of the bay allow under flight of the Restricted Airspace below 3500.

The issue is that the Presidential TFR is active every other weekend. Normally you can go east of R-4001A because it's GND-10000 I'd prefer to avoid any TFR's The fastest route is through the BWI Bravo and SFRA 1:30 min the route above only adds a few minutes and is a nice alternative. I know about the VFR corridor too but not sure I like threading that needle at low altitude.

 

[cmsuav8r]

It's been many years since I've flown that area.... but only just based on quick glance of the chart and your route, why not go around the West side of the DC area TFR? Looks like you'd miss all the airspace issues and by eye it looks to be roughly the same distance...

This was my first thought as well

 

[Dave Anderson]

KHGR CPTAL VPONX* VPOOP* 3W3 KCGE KMFV

The water is cold. If you cross the bay at 3400, at least you'll be able to glide to shore.

* Look at the flyway altitudes on the back of the TAC, but don't be surprised if others don't follow them...

A northerly route would take you around P40 to Gettysburg, then hang a right at Havre de Grace... which sometimes gets pinched off by a Wilmington TFR these days.

THe VPONX to VPOOP is the SFRA that I've filed. What I'm wondering if I don't get cleared into the BRAVO what is a good backup plan around the airspace?

 

[Dave Anderson]

It's been many years since I've flown that area.... but only just based on quick glance of the chart and your route, why not go around the West side of the DC area TFR? Looks like you'd miss all the airspace issues and by eye it looks to be roughly the same distance...

I have mapped this out, it’s about 20 minutes further. Not terrible.

 

[AlleyCat67]

THe VPONX to VPOOP is the SFRA that I've filed. What I'm wondering if I don't get cleared into the BRAVO what is a good backup plan around the airspace?

I'm not sure I understand your concern about using the VFR Flyway below 2500. The corridor between the FRZ and the 1500' shelf of the BWI Bravo is several miles wide - if you have a GPS it isn't very hard to "thread the needle". But I guess if it's really a concern, and you don't get the Bravo clearance, then you'll have to go around or over (and over means climbing to 11.5K eastbound).

 

[Dave Anderson]

I'm not sure I understand your concern about using the VFR Flyway below 2500. The corridor between the FRZ and the 1500' shelf of the BWI Bravo is several miles wide - if you have a GPS it isn't very hard to "thread the needle". But I guess if it's really a concern, and you don't get the Bravo clearance, then you'll have to go around or over (and over means climbing to 11.5K eastbound).

Which is also NA since I'm LSA. I honestly think it's just a matter of doing it with someone who knows and trying it a few times. I don't mind talking on the radio and doing Flight Following just being more "new" at this makes me a bit nervous. We do have some crazy airspace in the area, I don't want to be the guy on a YouTube video.

 

[GeorgeC]

THe VPONX to VPOOP is the SFRA that I've filed. What I'm wondering if I don't get cleared into the BRAVO what is a good backup plan around the airspace?

When you call up Potomac, let them know your intentions early and often*. If you get the bravo clearance, great. If you don't, fly VPONX-VPOOP under the bravo. As long as you have an SFRA flight plan on file, they'll let you transit it...

* It's worth being very clear about what you want to do; I recently asked for a bravo clearance to the north (basically, direct LNS via BWI), and the next controller who actually gave me the clearance put me on a 090 heading, which I could have done by myself...

 

[Brad W]

interesting....and I'd bet that could be shaved a bit by cutting a few of those corners a bit.
The only issue I can think of is that this crosses the bay at a wide area....so they'd probably want to be up fairly high for that last leg just when you want to descend. That would I suppose need to be evaluated based on the aircraft's glide distance, etc.... Otherwise that seems like it would be my first choice just for ease of it all.... although it would be good practice to look into the floors of the airspace and work with ATC and all....

When I was a student flying out of Williamsburg, Accomack was one of the student solos. The route the school specified I still remember being to cross a bit south of your route, at New Point Comfort direct to the cape charles VOR. I don't recall the required altitude but it was based of course on the glide distance of the schools plane, in my case was a 152. My first attempt resulted in a turn around at New Point Comfort because they had a student requirement of visibility to see the opposite shore....

 

[Ed Haywood]

Don't worry about MOA's, no clearance or permission necessary for VFR, those are for IFR separation. Just keep your eyes out, and of course use flight following when available and prudent.

 

[Pugs]

THe VPONX to VPOOP is the SFRA that I've filed. What I'm wondering if I don't get cleared into the BRAVO what is a good backup plan around the airspace?

You don't need a bravo clearance for the aforementioned VFR flyway. In fact, Potomac will specifically tell you to remain clear of the bravo. - You're under the bravo going south @ 2K and back @1.5K. I've not experienced any issues with being denied SFRA entry after filing but sure, they could have something else that prevents the transit I suppose. A heads up though, if you go to Tangier it's very hard to get a cell signal to file via FF on return so go ahead and file or plan a quick stop @ Cambridge to refile your SFRA back home.

 

[GeorgeC]

A heads up though, if you go to Tangier it's very hard to get a cell signal to file via FF on return so go ahead and file or plan a quick stop @ Cambridge to refile your SFRA back home.

I've heard you can pick up a cell signal shortly after departure.

 

[Pugs]

I've heard you can pick up a cell signal shortly after departure.

Likely -- I ended up borrowing a phone at the restaurant once too. The other time I just did a full stop - taxi back at CGE and refiled.

 

[Dave Anderson]

You don't need a bravo clearance for the aforementioned VFR flyway.

sorry, meant for going over BWI. Haven’t done the flyway but I use those waypoints for my flight plan when requesting clearance.