How to talk to non-pilots

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
Not sure how to word this question, and I know we've all talked about this before.

Something happened to me today, aviation related, and I wanted to ask everyone for feedback and advice.

I was on the phone with a vendor of mine (VERY NICE electrical person). I called regarding my regular properties, and we've met before, and I needed an HVAC recommendation.

So at the end of our phone call, I plan to hang up, when all of a sudden he asks:

"So Kimberly how is the flying going? Been on any flights?"

And I tell him yes, I'm flying almost every weekend if I can, and I'm getting more and more in love with the whole thing yada yada yada.

Then he says at the end:

"You know, I worry, whenever I see a small plane crash around here on the news, I worry it is you. Be safe."

I told him that unless they are 172s or 150s or 152s it is probably not me. But then I realized I fly in other people's airplanes too.

What do you say to non-pilots to "prove your point" that your flying is relatively safe?

What "facts" do you quote or . . . ?

I know how to talk to pilots or potential pilots and get them excited about GA, but what about "the public"? How do you talk to them to at least try and counter all that crap in the media about us?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Not sure how to word this question, and I know we've all talked about this before.

Something happened to me today, aviation related, and I wanted to ask everyone for feedback and advice.

I was on the phone with a vendor of mine (VERY NICE electrical person). I called regarding my regular properties, and we've met before, and I needed an HVAC recommendation.

So at the end of our phone call, I plan to hang up, when all of a sudden he asks:

"So Kimberly how is the flying going? Been on any flights?"

And I tell him yes, I'm flying almost every weekend if I can, and I'm getting more and more in love with the whole thing yada yada yada.

Then he says at the end:

"You know, I worry, whenever I see a small plane crash around here on the news, I worry it is you. Be safe."

I told him that unless they are 172s or 150s or 152s it is probably not me. But then I realized I fly in other people's airplanes too.

What do you say to non-pilots to "prove your point" that your flying is relatively safe?

What "facts" do you quote or . . . ?

I know how to talk to pilots or potential pilots and get them excited about GA, but what about "the public"? How do you talk to them to at least try and counter all that crap in the media about us?
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I don't say anything, because I believe it is a dangerous activity and I say so.

Driving has it dangers also, but nothing like flying.

However, airlines are safer per mile than driving, and much safer than GA.

In my OPINION it isn't the airliner, as much as it is the decisions, firm operational limits, and crew discipline. I try to apply those operational parameters in my flying although appropriately scaled down for whatever equipment I am using.
 
Thank him for his concern and tell him that you are very safety concious and that lots of things carry risk but you feel you manage it well.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I don't say anything, because I believe it is a dangerous activity and I say so.

Driving has it dangers also, but nothing like flying.
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On a per-hour basis, flying a small plane is about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle.

I think if one feels the need to provide any comparably dangerous activity to someone who states some concern, that may be the one. They may not like that answer either, of course.
 
Jim Logajan said:
On a per-hour basis, flying a small plane is about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle.

I think if one feels the need to provide any comparably dangerous activity to someone who states some concern, that may be the one. They may not like that answer either, of course.
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I already don't like that answer. I rode motorcyles and quit due to everyone dying or having life-long injuries. Motorcycles are dangerous.
 
"How do you feel about people you know with boats and water craft? Do you call them freaking out when a Caribbean cruiseliner crashes?"
 
SkyHog said:
"How do you feel about people you know with boats and water craft? Do you call them freaking out when a Caribbean cruiseliner crashes?"
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No silly he meant when a small two seater plane crashes, not when an airliner crashes! LOL.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I already don't like that answer. I rode motorcyles and quit due to everyone dying or having life-long injuries. Motorcycles are dangerous.
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I think I got more, "Isn't that dangerous?" comments when I rode a motorcycle than I ever did about airplanes. Maybe it's because people can see and relate to motorcycles on the road while small airplanes are a bit of a nebulous thing to most people.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I already don't like that answer. I rode motorcyles and quit due to everyone dying or having life-long injuries. Motorcycles are dangerous.
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I used to ride and race motorcycles and I quit for the same reasons. If we are talking about street bikes, many of the accidents are due to other drivers. Left turn in front of a motorcycle they don't see for example.

In flying for the most part you can swing the odds more in your favor based on your decisions, thats why I continue to fly vs. ride.
 
SkyHog said:
"How do you feel about people you know with boats and water craft? Do you call them freaking out when a Caribbean cruiseliner crashes?"
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And the way I've observed folks operating boats and personal water craft, they are scarrier than any rookie pilot. As Cap'n Ron and Dr. Bruce would say, they are spending their luck bag contents very quickly!
 
That is true Jim, however if you remove turbine aircraft from the GA statistics then you are back to about the same as motorcycles. There is a very good thread on Beech Talk where some of the guys went in depth on the statistics. Any way you turn it flying small piston planes is dangerous.
 
I generally concede the point that GA is more dangerous than driving, but counter it with my believe that car & motorcycle accidents result in higher rates of debilitating life long injuries. Then explain it's quality not quantity of life that I'm most concerned with.
 
I like this table from the ATSB report. I think you should just carry it with you and whip it out if someone mentions flying safety.:wink2:

Comparison of fatalities.JPG
 
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John221us said:
That seems to involve trains.
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Nope, I am wrong:

On the basis of number of trips (column 7 of Table 4) it would appear that there is no difference in the safety of pedestrians and car passengers. However on the basis of distance travelled, the safety of car passengers is much higher than that of pedestrians. This suggests that walking over a short distance is safer but that the greater the distance the greater the risk. Such an analysis ignores other factors such as the proportion of pedestrians killed who are under the influence of alcohol (estimated to be in the order of 45%) which distort the risks faced by non-intoxicated pedestrians. ​
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​
 
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My answer: "A lot of private plane crashes come from pilots doing dumb stuff, so I try really hard to avoid doing dumb stuff."
 
My friend is very quick to defend MY flying (she loves flying with me, btw). She says simply and matter of fact, "John's a very safe and careful pilot. I'd much rather fly with him than any commercial plane."
Accidents happen. Caution and training helps to prevent them. As a pilot, I do safety seminars, online courses, training with an instructor constantly. I participate in WINGS and typically try to do one phase a year. Most auto drivers haven't worked with an instructor since they passed their registry exam.
An accident or equipment failure may occur but I am doing as much as I can to prevent them. I do the same with a car. An abundance of caution, knowing what your car will do, knowing your limitations, and keeping your car good working order helps mitigate problems. Same thing flying.
That is the best you can do.
 
ronnieh said:
That is true Jim, however if you remove turbine aircraft from the GA statistics then you are back to about the same as motorcycles. There is a very good thread on Beech Talk where some of the guys went in depth on the statistics. Any way you turn it flying small piston planes is dangerous.
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So far as I can tell, the Australians define "general aviation" differently; they do not include charter operations. I suspect the turbine aircraft you are thinking of are included in the "Low capacity RPT" category that is treated differently in the cited report.

From http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/2485752/ar2011020.pdf :
"Commercial air transport: Commercial air transport refers to scheduled and non-scheduled commercial operations used for the purposes of transporting passengers and/or cargo for hire or reward. Specifically, this includes:
​
High capacity regular public transport (RPT). Regular public transport operations1 conducted in high capacity aircraft. A high capacity aircraft refers to an aircraft that is certified as having a maximum capacity exceeding 38 seats or a maximum payload exceeding 4,200 kg.
​
Low capacity RPT. Regular public transport operations conducted in aircraft other than high capacity aircraft. That is, aircraft with a maximum capacity of 38 seats or less, or a maximum payload of 4,200 kg or below.
​
Charter. Charter operations involve the carriage of passengers and/or cargo on non-scheduled operations by the aircraft operator, or the operator’s employees, in trade or commerce, excluding RPT operations.2
​
General aviation: General aviation is all flying activities outside of scheduled (RPT) and non-scheduled (charter) passenger and freight operations. General aviation in this report does not include Australian non-VH registered aircraft. General aviation does include:
​
Aerial work: including ambulance and emergency medical services, agriculture, mustering, search and rescue, fire control, and survey and photography.
​
Flying training.
​
Private, business and sports aviation. Sports aviation includes gliding, parachute operations, and acrobatics."
​
 
Just tell them what I tell them: "Don't worry, I'm wearing my lucky underwear."



BTW, you know it's time to take a break when you:

A- Tell the person in the drive thru to "standby" when deciding an order; and

B- Driving down the road and seeing some thunderstorms up ahead, you reach down to turn the weather radar on.
 
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Rex Kramer said:
Just tell them what I tell them: "Don't worry, I'm wearing my lucky underwear."



BTW, you know it's time to take a break when you:

A) Tell the person in the drive thru to "standby" when deciding an order; and

B) Driving down the road and seeing some thunderstorms up ahead, you reach down to turn the weather radar on.
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Thanks. I can't actually tell them that if I'm being truthful, but I liked your little aviation bleeding into your real life observations. Mine are related to the military alphabet we use - I am on the phone for work and I often have to spell my name or something else. I use the pilot alphabet for that but then some letters I don't remember and I just give up and go back to "A as in apple" etc.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks. I can't actually tell them that if I'm being truthful, but I liked your little aviation bleeding into your real life observations. Mine are related to the military alphabet we use - I am on the phone for work and I often have to spell my name or something else. I use the pilot alphabet for that but then some letters I don't remember and I just give up and go back to "A as in apple" etc.
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I've had that same issue.. well the phonetic alphabet, not going commando.. :rofl:




What's the old joke.. a guy thought his wife was having an affair with a pilot. He finally confronts her. She curtly responds with "look, if I've told you once I've told you niner times..! NEGATIVE ON THE AFFAIR!" :D
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks. I can't actually tell them that if I'm being truthful, but I liked your little aviation bleeding into your real life observations. Mine are related to the military alphabet we use - I am on the phone for work and I often have to spell my name or something else. I use the pilot alphabet for that but then some letters I don't remember and I just give up and go back to "A as in apple" etc.
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What we think of as the "pilot" alphabet actually has much wider use, in military, fire/EMS, etc. It's basically the NATO phonetic alphabet.
 
gprellwitz said:
What we think of as the "pilot" alphabet actually has much wider use, in military, fire/EMS, etc. It's basically the NATO phonetic alphabet.
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Yes but I thought someone told me cops have a different alphabet? Is that true?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Yes but I thought someone told me cops have a different alphabet? Is that true?
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According to this site, yes. http://www.police-scanner.info/glossary/phonetic_alphabet.htm
at least in the US back in 2008. I would actually have expected that to change in light of the efforts to ease inter-agency communications post 9/11, but perhaps not.

In Australia, it looks like they use the NATO phonetic alphabet: http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?document_id=12442
 
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Kimberly, I think they use the same alaphabet but a different phonetic for the letters.:D There I go again:stirpot:
 
Tell them that since most GA accidents are due to poor pilot judgment and all you need is to have better judgment than 2% of the pilot population in a lifetime of flying. Then convince them that your judgement is indeed that much better.
 
skidoo said:
Tell them that since most GA accidents are due to poor pilot judgment and all you need is to have better judgment than 2% of the pilot population in a lifetime of flying. Then convince them that your judgement is indeed that much better.
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OK but I believe judgment gets better with experience and I have little experience. But I like what you are saying. I wasn't really looking for "me" stuff, more like "facts". But like you said there are less MECHANICAL accidents and more PILOT ERROR accidents which does make for a good response. I am the pilot and often I fly with 1, 2, or even 3 other pilots on board.
 
Judgement can go either way with experience. If you spend that time bending the rules and getting away with it, your judgement actually gets worse over time.

A good attitude about safety is most important, in my opinion. If you always remain careful (full of care) and cautious, you'll be fine.
 
ronnieh said:
Any way you turn it flying small piston planes is dangerous if you don't understand their limitations and make poor choices.
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No doubt, the extra capabilities of turbine aircraft are very nice to have no matter how you slice it. Last week I had a flight that I wouldn't have made in the piston birds I fly due to weather, and so we took the Cheyenne. I was glad we did.

However, I've done that same flight under better weather conditions in the 310 and Aztec quite happily.

Of course, I also ride motorcycles, and there I can die because some idiot changes lanes and runs me over.

TMetzinger said:
Judgement can go either way with experience. If you spend that time bending the rules and getting away with it, your judgement actually gets worse over time.
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Sadly, I know several people in this category. They're also unwilling to listen to those who point it out to them.
 
Do you know this person well? Maybe invite them to fly with you?
 
pbramlett said:
Do you know this person well? Maybe invite them to fly with you?
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I do not, nor will I ever, mix work with flying. Work is what pays for my hobby, though I often work a second job to support it. Not that anything would happen to me / us, but I just don't want it coming back to me. I don't believe in personal relationships with people that I meet through work in any way, shape, or form. It just gets ugly.
 
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