How to practice talking to the tower?

Brad Z said:
Unless you're doing for entertainment, or you actually fly out of JFK, I wouldn't recommend learning tower communications by listening to a large commercial service airport. It's better for a newbie to listen to the airport he/she flies out of (or is planning on visiting). When listening, follow along with a airport diagram.
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I agree with this. The pros are notoriously bad about straying from standard phraseology. I think the OP needs to work on getting it right first - there'll be plenty of time to start cutting corners and ****ing off the AIM nazis down the road. ;)
 
BigBadLou said:
As others have mentioned, practicing with your flight instructor or ground instructor would help. And the 5 Ws are very useful, use them wisely.
Where you at, Midcap? Your profile does not say.
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South Louisiana
 
mscard88 said:
I disagree. Either is fine of course, but when I'm ready, I'm ready for takeoff. I prefer and teach "cleared for takeoff". That's what the tower is saying also.
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Let me see if I understand you correctly? You're teaching your students to tell the tower they are cleared for takeoff? Please clarify, because I hope this is not what you're teaching.

PJ
 
bobmrg said:
You NEVER "ask for permission" to do anything. You tell the controller that you are ready for takeoff, period.

Bob Gardner
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You very definitely ask for permission for some things. Just not that.

You need permission to enter restricted airspace or a TFR, or to land at military or private airfields.
 
MAKG1 said:
You very definitely ask for permission for some things. Just not that.

You need permission to enter restricted airspace or a TFR, or to land at military or private airfields.
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Mea culpa, kind of. You're right, of course. I was contemplating the "request permission to descend" kind of thing.

Bob
 
SToL said:
Let me see if I understand you correctly? You're teaching your students to tell the tower they are cleared for takeoff? Please clarify, because I hope this is not what you're teaching.

PJ
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No he teaches them to say "ready for takeoff" when holding short of the runway.
 
:rolleyes:
SToL said:
Let me see if I understand you correctly? You're teaching your students to tell the tower they are cleared for takeoff? Please clarify, because I hope this is not what you're teaching.

PJ
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Yeah. :rolleyes:
 
bobmrg said:
You NEVER "ask for permission" to do anything. You tell the controller that you are ready for takeoff, period.

Bob Gardner
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sounds like they should get rid of "VFR request", since you NEVER ask for permission to do anything.
 
roncachamp said:
Who are "they" who would get rid of it? "VFR request" is not standard phraseology.
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I dunno, I don't use it either. according to Bob there IS NO standard phraseology but yet you NEVER ask permission. lotta confusing information being relayed.
 
eman1200 said:
I dunno, I don't use it either. according to Bob there IS NO standard phraseology but yet you NEVER ask permission. lotta confusing information being relayed.
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There is standard phraseology, there is no required phraseology.
 
mscard88 said:
Sorry, disagree with that too. If you're ready for takeoff, nothing wrong with saying that. IMO. I could see where a controller (probably Timbeck;)) would respond " XXX say intentions".
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I came >< close to missing this one. No sir. I agree with you. In my humble opinion the guy in the plane can say, "ready for take off, ready for departure, ready to go, holding short of runway XX or did I leave the iron on?" for all I care. I know that if he taxied out to the runway its obvious that he wants to depart. You know as well as I do that as a controller, the ONLY time we can say the word "cleared" is if we are clearing someone for take off or to land or while working in clearance delivery.

I came back yesterday and was told to hold short of runway 21. I did and when the ground controller decided that I could cross 21 to go back to the hangar he said, "Cherokee six zero uniform you are cleared to cross runway two one" I acknowledged him knowing that his monitor or the supervisor was beating him about the head and shoulders for saying that. I never correct the controllers unless its an obvious safety issue and I never let them know that I'm a controller either - just isn't me. Besides, half the controllers who work in that tower know me as I worked with or even trained them at some point. (just not the trainee in ground control that day)
 
I'd say the only bad phraseology is one that does not communicate effectively or otherwise leads to confusion.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I came >< close to missing this one. No sir. I agree with you. In my humble opinion the guy in the plane can say, "ready for take off, ready for departure, ready to go, holding short of runway XX or did I leave the iron on?" for all I care. I know that if he taxied out to the runway its obvious that he wants to depart. You know as well as I do that as a controller, the ONLY time we can say the word "cleared" is if we are clearing someone for take off or to land or while working in clearance delivery.

I came back yesterday and was told to hold short of runway 21. I did and when the ground controller decided that I could cross 21 to go back to the hangar he said, "Cherokee six zero uniform you are cleared to cross runway two one" I acknowledged him knowing that his monitor or the supervisor was beating him about the head and shoulders for saying that. I never correct the controllers unless its an obvious safety issue and I never let them know that I'm a controller either - just isn't me. Besides, half the controllers who work in that tower know me as I worked with or even trained them at some point. (just not the trainee in ground control that day)
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Completely agree. Some teach it one way (ready for departure) and some other ways, like me (ready for take off). I recall taking the Chief Ctlr & son up one day and he wanted to fly out to the base (Columbus) and do a low approach. Well we did that and turned downwind to depart the pattern. Abeam the tower LC said "hey look at the catwalk", knowing it was me, which we did. There was a controller mooning us, unaware the boss was onboard. But I did let them know he was with me, but he was a cool Chief so no worries.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I'd say the only bad phraseology is one that does not communicate effectively or otherwise leads to confusion.
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Yup, that's true.

It sure scares student pilots, though.

To the students, honestly, ATC will be far more patient with you than you might expect. Go listen in on a foreign pilot mill if you want to hear some scary stuff. You won't be THAT bad almost no matter what you do.

If you want to get ATC riled up, do something really unsafe like cut someone off in the pattern (I've witnessed this -- on my long student cross country, the airplane behind me on downwind turned base when Tower called me to do so, leading to a conflict -- Tower was not at all pleased). But just saying something "wrong?" I wouldn't worry about it. Just do what you say you'll do.

Castle (KMER) Tower can often be a source of entertainment as you try to decipher some truly outrageous accents. Unfortunately, liveatc doesn't have it.
 
luvflyin said:
There's really no need to say either departure or take off when you call the tower ready go. They know you are. They know if you need to do something else, like taxi back to the ramp or something you will tell them.
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Good point. "Chino Tower, Cherokee 82LN, holding short at 26R, for west departure."
 
Don't ask for permission eh?

5ce.jpg
 
I see a lot of people posting that they announce they are "holding short" of the runway, but isn't that obvious? I mean, can't the tower see you down there and wouldn't just saying "at 29" instead of "holding short of 29" be just as fine? Obviously when they direct me to continue holding short, I read back "holding short" so they know I heard and understood. Otherwise, I just try to be as short-winded as possible.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I see a lot of people posting that they announce they are "holding short" of the runway, but isn't that obvious? I mean, can't the tower see you down there and wouldn't just saying "at 29" instead of "holding short of 29" be just as fine? Obviously when they direct me to continue holding short, I read back "holding short" so they know I heard and understood. Otherwise, I just try to be as short-winded as possible.
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Seems customary to me to announce holding short at the hold short line. Everyone I've ever heard has said it... including someone who is #2 or #3 in sequence... "holding short in sequence."
 
SkyDog58 said:
How is that short-winded thing working for you?

I read your cross country post! :p
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hahaha... my CFI would literally die laughing if he read I try to stay "short-winded" ;)

Ok, fine, I'm a long winded person!
 
ircphoenix said:
Seems customary to me to announce holding short at the hold short line. Everyone I've ever heard has said it... including someone who is #2 or #3 in sequence... "holding short in sequence."
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Even then, I would say "#2 at 29er."

ETA: Not saying that is right ^^^, just honestly curious if there's a standard I am going against by not always saying "holding short."
 
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Cajun_Flyer said:
Even then, I would say "#2 at 29er."

ETA: Not saying that is right ^^^, just honestly curious if there's a standard I am going against by not always saying "holding short."
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Yes. Chapter 7, Section 4, paragraph 2 line 6.

"Thou shalt announce 'holding short' when at the hold short line."

It's in the book.
 
So do you decide which runway you want to take off? Or is that given to you like on arrival?

Talking to the tower on arrival is a lot easier.

I think last time I only had to say this.

Houma tower, Cessna xxxx hotel, 8 miles out for arrival with info Zulu.

Then I'm pretty sure they told me what runway to use and then cleared me to land when I got in the pattern.

everytime we landed its been a right hand pattern.
 
Houma has a tower? Last time I was in there was probably 1981, thought it was an uncontrolled field. Maybe it was back then.
 
uh, well who knew. It was Houma so if KHUM is the identifier, so be it. Thanks.
 
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