mtuomi
En-Route
They'll only count as one hard inquiry even if you shop around, and it drops your score by 5-10 for a few months. Non-issue. Usually compensated by the added installment account, especially after it gets paid off in full.
How to lose a customer, car dealership edition...
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JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
And what would be the purpose of having a good credit rating if not to take advantage of good opportunities?
denverpilot
Tied Down
It's not the law here, but it is in Texas, you can open Saturday or Sunday, but not both from what I remember. My folks have a day with their families or to hunt or fish or whatever. My dad has told me since I was a very young man, "If you can't make it in 6 days, 7 won't help you." I know we lose a couple deals here and there, 2-4 per month and I'm OK with that, I'd rather my people have a family life.
No argument with your dad, but I don't think we need government telling the dealers whether they can or can't be open, here. If someone wants to hustle and sell me a car on Sunday, they should be able to.
The liquor store lobby was against the seven day sales for the same reasoning, they lost. Via referendum, even. Politicians wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. (Referendums are excellent weapons against political weenies who refuse to hold opinions, honestly. Everyone gets annoyed enough, we just vote them out of the way.)
The mom and pop liquor shops still close on whatever day they want to close, and those of us that value small business still buy from them, but if someone from out of town suddenly shows up on a Sunday to visit, we don't have to look like fools living in a State where we can't pick up a bottle of wine or a six pack of good beer to treat them to with dinner when we run to get ingredients for making them a nice meal.
I certainly won't buy liquor from the local mega mart when there's fine people running real stores with real knowledge of wines and what not, but I'm sure the People of Walmart love their PBR being right there down another aisle.
I suspect the car dealers here locally will whine and moan about Sunday sales until the end of time, however. Not quite the same number of motivated voters as liquor sales to bounce that one through the referendum process.
Only people rocking that boat around here is Tesla, and they do the "we pretend to sell cars, but don't sell cars, at the mall, in our own storefront" thing. Not even sure those fake sales stores are allowed to be open on Sundays, honestly I might set foot in a mall about once a year, and I never checked.
It's an incredibly dumb thing for government to be involved in.
Oh well, it's better than being one State west and having to have a "membership" to get a drink at a bar. They still doing that goofiness to our west? And the building codes that say the bar can't be visible from the dining area if it's a mixed restaurant and bar? Utah cracks me up.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
I did that once with a 0% loan on a Mustang. The only rational choice in the above case is to finance the maximum available at 0%, take that $8,000 (or whatever) and invest it in a relatively safe investment with a decent return. Over 60 months (or whatever), you might as well have free money working for you!
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I'll always take the manufacturers 0% loan, even if I can pay cash. Hell, throw the TTT in there too!
N747JB
Final Approach
I don't care that Sunday car sales are allowed in Georgia, I choose not to open and in the end it does cost me something to not open. Those who want to open Sunday are more than welcome to open, they can open Christmas Day for all I care. Georgia passed Sunday liquor sales in stores about 5 years ago, the local liquor store owners were against it and some don't open. I don't think it added any business to those who open, they are just selling on Sunday afternoon what people would have normally purchased on Saturday night!
I do agree that the government should not control when a business can be open, although I do think you can make a case for a closing time for bars.
I do agree that the government should not control when a business can be open, although I do think you can make a case for a closing time for bars.
N747JB
Final Approach
Normally it is one or the other, rebate or 0%, in this case he HAS to take the zero percent to get the most rebate! It's really backwards!
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Yeah, it all depends. When we bought the Fusion they were running 0%/60 + $2000 trade assistance. So, that on top of the A-plan price made for a good deal.
orange
Line Up and Wait
The absolute worst is when they straight-out lie to you just to get you into the dealership. I had to let one Toyota dealer have it because they ****ed me off. Samsone Toyota on Rt-1 in New Jersey. I live in NYC, like 60-90 minutes away. I hit them up online through True Car or Cars.com and they confirmed that they have the car that they listed in color and options that I was looking for. None of the many local dealers had one. I drive there with the printout of the exact car and their email where they said "IN STOCK" and this ******* starts showing me cars and asks me to pick one. I almost lost it. I made a little bit of a scene which I NEVER do but I called them a bunch liars crooks pretty loudly and told them to go F themselves and left.
N747JB
Final Approach
I won't tolerate anyone lying to a customer, it's easier to tell the truth and sell them something we have or locate them the one they want.
I have my internet people send a video of them and the car the customer is inquiring about, shows the customer who to see and more importantly it shows the cars is actually here and ready for them to buy. True car is not a great organization, they do have good ads, but they often let customers "build" cars and then they price them as if these cars exist. A good example is a customer that came in with her true car certificate showing a price on a Mustang convertible with 0 options, manual transmission etc, just a base car, like a 90's ad car! She raised hell when she realized the one she wanted with automatic trans, leather etc was going to be more money. She hadn't contacted us, just used the website and got her expectations way out of whack. But, that's the power of the internet!
vkhosid
Cleared for Takeoff
As a kid, I remember my dad buying a car from that particular dealership. Though by that time, it was a Honda dealer. What a small world...
orange
Line Up and Wait
The best is when they swear that nobody will be able to give me that price. I was looking for a lease on '15 Toyota Highlander SUV. The prices I was getting were mid-$550's with only 1st month down. And I was turning in a 2012 lease that was ending but in top shape and low mileage so had equity in it (it was worth more than the optional lease-end buy price, so sometimes a dealer will buy the car from Toyota and then resell at a profit and give some back to the lessee).
I read on Edmunds forums where people were getting them for 500 and even a bit lower, so I went to one local dealer and offered $475/mo plus 1st month down. He said no way anybody could do that, it's not possible because they would lose money. Next, I went to the same dealer where I leased my '12 Toyota Highlander. I dealt with the same guy. And I told him what I was looking for and he offered an even better price than I asked for (first time it has happened in history I believe). He offered me $449/mo and NO MONEY OUT OF POCKET (the 1st month was already rolled into the monthly rate). But 2 catches... it must be 39 months instead of 36 (no biggie) and I gotta bring $500 cash "for the finance guy". I'm pretty sure it was for him. I really don't care. I got the car that I wanted (they found it somewhere and flat bedded it because the mileage was only 6; one time in the past another dealer found one and ran up like 50 miles on the car) and for cheaper than the lowball I threw out. Bottom line is they have plenty of room to negotiate.
I drove back to the first dealership and showed him the lease contract at $449/mo and nothing down (they kept the cash bribe out of the contract ). He didn't believe that it was real. That was an enjoyable moment. LOL
I read on Edmunds forums where people were getting them for 500 and even a bit lower, so I went to one local dealer and offered $475/mo plus 1st month down. He said no way anybody could do that, it's not possible because they would lose money. Next, I went to the same dealer where I leased my '12 Toyota Highlander. I dealt with the same guy. And I told him what I was looking for and he offered an even better price than I asked for (first time it has happened in history I believe). He offered me $449/mo and NO MONEY OUT OF POCKET (the 1st month was already rolled into the monthly rate). But 2 catches... it must be 39 months instead of 36 (no biggie) and I gotta bring $500 cash "for the finance guy". I'm pretty sure it was for him. I really don't care. I got the car that I wanted (they found it somewhere and flat bedded it because the mileage was only 6; one time in the past another dealer found one and ran up like 50 miles on the car) and for cheaper than the lowball I threw out. Bottom line is they have plenty of room to negotiate.
I drove back to the first dealership and showed him the lease contract at $449/mo and nothing down (they kept the cash bribe out of the contract
). He didn't believe that it was real. That was an enjoyable moment. LOLmtuomi
En-Route
N747JB
Final Approach
Surprises are a good thing!! LOLBuying cars sight unseen is much more exciting! "Oh this is what it looks like"
comanchepilot
En-Route
Gotta admit my 911 is a little quicker than the Countryman -
Also - go ahead and quote me $80 - if I show up and get an $80 estimate they can not legally charge me more than $88 without approval - and I've used that law a couple of times here in Calif - once with a dealer once with a tire shop . ..
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Thanks CP. What's the statutory source of this law?
MAKG1
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It's actually posted on the wall of every auto repair shop in California. See the BAR website for details.
The flip side is that if you get called for authorization that the repair you need is really going to cost $250 instead of $80 and you say no, you will still be out the $88 and not have the repair. You might have an undriveable vehicle, and it's legal if the damage couldn't have been known beforehand.
For instance, suppose you get a quote for $500 for a head gasket replacement. As part of that job, the shop pressure tests the head, and discovers it is cracked. Your options are to put the bad head back on the vehicle for the original $500, or buy a head (or maybe repair it if you're lucky and it's repairable) for the additional costs. Putting the old head back on uses ALL of the supplies and labor it would have in the original quote. Head bolts are usually not reusable because they stretch, and gaskets are almost never reusable. The coolant has been drained and refilled. And a cracked head is going to leak again.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
This? It doesn't seem to provide the detail CP gave (i.e a 10% increase is OK, but no more).
https://www.bar.ca.gov/consumer/auto_repair_guide.html
denverpilot
Tied Down
Seems odd in two ways:
- They sent the person to your dealership specifically. Seems like you could have some recourse against them for doing that -- or should I say, Ford might. And probably should sue them to protect their brand and customer loyalty. I'm going to guess the flow of folks who'll just give up immediately and start negotiating for a higher priced vehicle outweighs the few who are angry?
- On vehicles like that Mustang, most of us here know that "base models" are rarely seen in the wild, but it's kinda annoying they're even listed anywhere at all, if the only way to acquire one -- if that's what your heart truly desires -- is via an intensive search for hundreds or thousands of miles or a special order and a long wait. Another shady practice Ford and others should just stop doing if they're not really going to produce such vehicles.
TrueCar doesn't make up the features and options, but it sounds like they'll happily let you "build" stuff the manufacturer doesn't really make in any quantity. It takes two to tango in that game, just from a disinterested third party's opinion who isn't in the biz.
It's kinda like the flight schools that advertise $4000 Private ratings. I wouldn't want my name anywhere near that.
N747JB
Final Approach
It's a Truecar thing, they use the manufacturer's websites for specs, which is fine, but they will let a customer print out a certificate for the price on that car they spec as if it's in stock. It doesn't happen very often that a customer spec's a unicorn, but it does happen and we get the heat, lying car dealers you know! If it was on the Internet is has to be true!! Bon jour!
If it was on the Internet is has to be true!! Bon jour! 
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SoonerAviator
Sort of did the same financing rebate when I bought the F-150 in 2008. It was dealer financing (not 0%) that got me an extra $1,500 rebate. I kept it for 3 months (minimum per contract) and then re-financed at my credit union's rate. I'm sure the dealership had to eat it, but I played by their rules to the the additional rebate. I wouldn't have minded keeping the dealers' financing, except that they gave me an absurd interest rate (like 7%+) when my credit rating was stellar. Credit union almost cut it in half.
denverpilot
Tied Down
It's a Truecar thing, they use the manufacturer's websites for specs, which is fine, but they will let a customer print out a certificate for the price on that car they spec as if it's in stock. It doesn't happen very often that a customer spec's a unicorn, but it does happen and we get the heat, lying car dealers you know!
That's the jist of what I'm saying -- if they're pulling the information from a dealer or manufacturer website, the phrase "If it's on the internet it must be true..." applies all the way back to the bad data they're getting from the manufacturer. Right?
Manufacturer takes down the unicorn data about the rarely made product, TrueCar won't be saying they're available...
N747JB
Final Approach
Well, they have to have the stripped ones available to advertise price, I know a couple dealers that stock the really base versions of Mustangs and advertise them CHEAP, of course they don't sell many of the "ad cars" but it draws people in to look at the ones they really want to buy.That's the jist of what I'm saying -- if they're pulling the information from a dealer or manufacturer website, the phrase "If it's on the internet it must be true..." applies all the way back to the bad data they're getting from the manufacturer. Right?
Manufacturer takes down the unicorn data about the rarely made product, TrueCar won't be saying they're available...
N747JB
Final Approach
Ford does those rebates, an extra $500-1500 to finance with Ford Credit at "standard" rates. Just so you know, you can pay it off anytime, you don't have to wait 3 months! The 3 months is so the dealer can keep any finance reserve made on the contract without a chargeback from Ford Credit. A local dealer here tells people they can't pay it off until the 3rd payment, but that's not legally correct, you can pay it off anytime after the contract is cashed, usually a couple weeks.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Yeah that's the only reason I ever see them advertised, as a nearly bait and switch thing. Seems dumb to even make 'em.
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SoonerAviator
Ford does those rebates, an extra $500-1500 to finance with Ford Credit at "standard" rates. Just so you know, you can pay it off anytime, you don't have to wait 3 months! The 3 months is so the dealer can keep any finance reserve made on the contract without a chargeback from Ford Credit. A local dealer here tells people they can't pay it off until the 3rd payment, but that's not legally correct, you can pay it off anytime after the contract is cashed, usually a couple weeks.
Yeah, I knew about the 3-month thing, but the dealership was giving me a great deal on the truck as it was, so I wasn't going to rob them of another chunk of change by stealing their finance reserve, even though I could have. The amount of additional interest was negligible in the grand scheme of things.
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N747JB
Final Approach
No problem, I just wanted to make sure they were upfront about it, the dealer not far from here absolutely lies to the customer about when they can pay it off!
N747JB
Final Approach
Somebody will always buy them! The best is the national commercials where they show a loaded up model that is $40K and give a starting at price of $22,900 and disclose it in the small print!
I had the opposite result with 'True Car'. I spec'd a truck with manual transmission, tow package, base trim, no sunroof etc. and True Car created a certificate for the mid-trim automatic transmission version. I found them to be useless.
orange
Line Up and Wait
Sounds like user input error.
orange
Line Up and Wait
I have also seen cases where dealers have inventory sections on their website, but when you get to the dealer, the cars that are in stock were magically sold in the time between when you viewed it and the time you got there.
Sounds like user input error.
Mh, no. I put in manual transmission, basic trim, tow package and True Car gave me a certificate for a car that is 'just like it' because none of their dealers had what I was looking for in stock.
JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
I have also seen cases where dealers have inventory sections on their website, but when you get to the dealer, the cars that are in stock were magically sold in the time between when you viewed it and the time you got there.
What does the average car salesman sell a month? (I thought 10 was a minimu, and stars would push 15+ out the door. ). Multiply that by the dozen guys standing around, and you could have 5-10-20 cars going out each day??
Easy to see them gone by the time you got there. And, doubt the real time inventory is updated on a website.
I don't understand why he'd care. What's in it for him?
comanchepilot
En-Route
The 10% is in the statute somewhere - or maybe the regs - its been around for 50 years at least.
I'm not being retained to practice law here - so googlefu usually works -
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
OK, but my google-fu finds nothing about a 10% maximum increase. Maybe I'm missing it somehow.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
For what it's worth, a friend of mine who is a lawyer and a small claims judge is unaware of any law that allows for an increase of up to 10%. According to him, if the repair shop wants to exceed the original estimate by any amount, they need customer authorization.
MAKG1
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Indeed, that's what my non-lawyer reading of Cal. BPC 9884.9(a) seems to say.