How to get an intro ride without screwing folks

lurkerLuke

lurkerLuke

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Doug
I introduced myself as not a pilot and not likely to ever be one. Thank you all for helping to answer my dumb questions. Really appreciate your patience with my layman terminology.

My father bought me a ride in a glider in the mid 70s at the long gone Fremont, CA airstrip. I so miss the dragstrip next to it that also went away for a @#*% automall. Effheads. Oops, did I say that out loud?

Anyway that glider is my only small airplane experience. I did enjoy it. The guy let me take controls, then after a few minutes asked "where are we?" Crud. :( . At least he was paying attention. :)

Been thinking I would like something like an intro flight in maybe a Cessna 172, not just a tour but where I could get the intro experience. Thing is I am not going to go for PPL, just not going happen for me.

Would a ( decent ) flight school be willing to take me up for reasonable $$ knowing I won't be back?

How much should I expect to pay for something like this? Livermore, Hayward, or Oakland CA.

Thanks,
Doug - or Luke, you choose.
 
I promise you any flight school will do this for you. They would rather have you continue training, but they will take the 1/2 hour regardless.
Cost..?? Guessing about $100 for 1/2 hour.
Others will give you a more accurate estimate. I guessed on the high side.
 
Of course I could just drop $20's on the counter until they say its enough. Well, if I could drop $20's like they came off my backyard tree. Crud, did I just let my secret out?
Seriously, thank you for the replies.

I might go visit one of the LVK schools. Gotta water that tree...
 
lurkerLuke said:
Of course I could just drop $20's on the counter until they say its enough. Well, if I could drop $20's like they came off my backyard tree. Crud, did I just let my secret out?
Seriously, thank you for the replies.

I might go visit one of the LVK schools. Gotta water that tree...
Click to expand...
Not sure what answer you were looking for..??

Are you looking for a free ride?
 
Kritchlow said:
Not sure what answer you were looking for..??

Are you looking for a free ride?
Click to expand...

No I am not looking for a free ride. Just trying to get an understanding of the people in the business. Sorry if I offended you.
 
lurkerLuke said:
No I am not looking for a free ride. Just trying to get an understanding of the people in the business. Sorry if I offended you.
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Don't worry about it. Some of the intro flights are (on paper) loss-leaders or break-even. The schools know if they're doing this and are okay with it. They're hoping to "hook" some folks into coming back.

Some can be more pushy than others about it but around here at least, most staff instructors at the clubs are told not to be pushy and to just keep the flights short if they're doing a fixed price intro flight offer.

It's hard to say how your local area handles it, but the break even point for an intro ride is pretty common business practice. Some places just charge whatever it would normally cost, and I've seen some places go with Groupon or similar where the fixed price is slightly lower than their costs.

Easiest way to find out what an intro ride runs at a club or FBO is just to call and ask.

If you're feeling weird about not having plans to continue training a) don't worry about it... b) if you just can't get over it, just tell the instructor and they'll adjust the flight time by a few minutes to handle it, or they'll just laugh and say not to worry about it.

It's all good. Most places have a certain number of folks take an intro ride with no plans of ever coming back. It happens.

(That all said, it sounds like you're pretty "hooked" anyway, and if life and fiscal circumstances aligned, you'd have both seen the equipment and would have an instructor's business card somewhere after having done an intro flight -- and maybe you'd head over to the airport for a few lessons. Grin...)
 
Just so I'm understanding correctly. You want to do a few intro flights from different schools knowing you will not be back and complete the training? I don't know of any school that wouldn't do that.
 
Idk. Most requests of this nature are from people with a desire to become a pilot, even if it's a semi long shot. In those cases (at least in my area) it's cheap (free in some cases). These aren't "schools" but individual CFI's with their own plane. Good people willing to look at the big picture of sharing our passion with the hopes of expanding the group.

But with you knowing up front it's a one time lesson.... I'd expect to pay regular / full price in most places. If you're wanting to do it badly enough, though, it should really be worth it.
 
Doug or Luke,

Discovery flights are $100 at my home airport and that is probably pretty typical. They would be glad to accommodate you even if you never come back. Another suggestion would be to make friends with a local pilot. A lot of pilots enjoy taking folks flying and would gladly do so if you are willing to split the cost.
 
Luke,

All you need to do is give the flight school a call and tell them you want to do a "photo flight" or something of the like. You'll simply be renting the aircraft and instructor for however long you wish to fly. It's not out of the ordinary by any means.
 
^^^ This one

The intro flights seem like loss leaders to get you to want to spend ~$8-10k on the PPL. If you're more interested in being a "flight tourist" schedule the plane and instructor for an our or two and when you get there tell them your intentions, that it may be your only lesson ever, etc. It might cost $350-400 but you'll either get it out of your system or catch the fever. Good money either way.

My CFI wasn't a fan of the Intro Flight sales mechanism. He felt it wasn't enough time for the potential student to decide if flying was really for them, and it wasn't a productive use of his time.

Another CFI I worked with told me of an elder lady who didn't want to get a ppl, but she enjoyed taking a "lesson" every few months. She got to go flying and probably retained more than he expected, but they both knew she'd never solo. I don't recall if she ever even got a Third Class / Student Certificate.

Anyone know what the conversion rate is for Intros to Students?
 
Ravioli said:
If you're more interested in being a "flight tourist" schedule the plane and instructor for an our or two and when you get there tell them your intentions

Anyone know what the conversion rate is for Intros to Students?
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I've been doing some hang gliding, and one of the biggest schools is near me. This is also a tourist destination, and they offer discovery tandems. Most are just folks that want to go for a nice scenic ride, and that's it.

I asked them their conversion rates, and it was: One in ten discovery flight riders start lessons. Of those that start lessons, one in ten actually follow thru all the way to getting their rating.
 
You are not taking advantage of the school by doing a discovery flight. Yes, they are discounted to bring in potential customers, but the school doesn't expect everyone to convert to flight training. Discovery flights are the all you can eat buffet in the Casino.
 
lurkerLuke said:
I introduced myself as not a pilot and not likely to ever be one. Thank you all for helping to answer my dumb questions. Really appreciate your patience with my layman terminology.

My father bought me a ride in a glider in the mid 70s at the long gone Fremont, CA airstrip. I so miss the dragstrip next to it that also went away for a @#*% automall. Effheads. Oops, did I say that out loud?

Anyway that glider is my only small airplane experience. I did enjoy it. The guy let me take controls, then after a few minutes asked "where are we?" Crud. :( . At least he was paying attention. :)

Been thinking I would like something like an intro flight in maybe a Cessna 172, not just a tour but where I could get the intro experience. Thing is I am not going to go for PPL, just not going happen for me.

Would a ( decent ) flight school be willing to take me up for reasonable $$ knowing I won't be back?

How much should I expect to pay for something like this? Livermore, Hayward, or Oakland CA.

Thanks,
Doug - or Luke, you choose.
Click to expand...

EAA has an "Eagles" program in some states where they will take people up. "Young Eagles" is for the kiddies, same concept. But if you don't want to shell out a hundred bucks, just hang around the FBO get to know some pilots and see if you can bum a ride to lunch. May cost you $40-$50 for fuel and your part of lunch if you go anywhere a short distance away.

Even if you never get your PPL or don't care about becoming a pilot, I can tell you that personally I could always use someone to split the bill with when I fly. Planes run on $100 bills dontcha know?
 
lurkerLuke said:
I introduced myself as not a pilot and not likely to ever be one. Thank you all for helping to answer my dumb questions. Really appreciate your patience with my layman terminology.

My father bought me a ride in a glider in the mid 70s at the long gone Fremont, CA airstrip. I so miss the dragstrip next to it that also went away for a @#*% automall. Effheads. Oops, did I say that out loud?

Anyway that glider is my only small airplane experience. I did enjoy it. The guy let me take controls, then after a few minutes asked "where are we?" Crud. :( . At least he was paying attention. :)

Been thinking I would like something like an intro flight in maybe a Cessna 172, not just a tour but where I could get the intro experience. Thing is I am not going to go for PPL, just not going happen for me.

Would a ( decent ) flight school be willing to take me up for reasonable $$ knowing I won't be back?

How much should I expect to pay for something like this? Livermore, Hayward, or Oakland CA.

Thanks,
Doug - or Luke, you choose.
Click to expand...
Can you tell us why you're 'not likely to ever be one'?

Anyhow, on discovery flights, I was interested in taking lessons so I booked a 'discovery flight'. It was a let down. Maybe I got a bad cfi or maybe thats just what discovery flights are, but he barely let me touch the controls and when he did it was straight and level. Then it was ok, lets head back, he takes the controls flies back and lands. It seemed almost like he was trying to show me how complicated it was. So, I got a 30 min(20 in the air?) scenic flight for $100.

When I called the 2nd FBO and CFI to set up another one, that CFI told me discovery flights are a waste of time and that I should just book my first hour of training. This was more like it! He went through the preflight with me and had me do the takeoff and had me on the controls almost the whole time even if just 'following through', it was great. He had me do climbs descents, turns, he demo'd some stuff. It was maybe $50 more than the discovery flight.

So, if you are really interested in learning something, tell them you want an hour of flight training.
 
I did my discovery flight at a local school knowing full well ahead of time that I definitely DID want to get my license, I just wanted to verify I could stomach it. A year and a half later I finally started, but I went to a different school. That decision was based on locale, now that I'm back in the area, the original school is getting my business.

They're called half hour discovery flights. you go up, goof around a bit, instructor gives you the controls, you do some turns and such, and go back down. All in all a grand time, though not long enough. Price is about standard rate for a half hour of training.
 
What you want is a called a discovery flight. Any flight school should do it, wouldn't be a problem at all. The whole idea is to get people the opportunity to see what it's actually like being in a small plane. You're not screwing anyone by doing it. It's understood that some people will continue training and some won't. You may just change your mind after doing your discovery flight. :)
 
That's how I started: Had a day off with no plans, drove over to the local airport, walked into the FBO, asked if I could get a "discovery flight", hopped into a plane with a CFI, handled the controls on takeoff, cruise, and landing, then asked "where do I sign up for lessons?"

I've seen a tendency for some places to call it an "intro lesson", you get to put it into a logbook, but it's also a way to charge a bit more.
 
@lurkerLuke I have to warn you that flying is like crack. You might go there intending to take one lesson and that's it, but next thing you know you're spending $10,000+ to get your PPL. Just a heads up.
 
MassPilot said:
@lurkerLuke I have to warn you that flying is like crack. You might go there intending to take one lesson and that's it, but next thing you know you're spending $10,000+ to get your PPL. Just a heads up.
Click to expand...

And that $10k is the cheap part. Then you buy an airplane. And another. And another...
 
All the schools in my area actually have Groupons for discovery flights. Agree with the idea that you might enjoy it more if you actually scheduled a lesson or photo flight. Plan to spend about $200/hour of flight time. No one will be the least bit bothered that you don't plan on coming back
 
Ryanb said:
Luke,

All you need to do is give the flight school a call and tell them you want to do a "photo flight" or something of the like. You'll simply be renting the aircraft and instructor for however long you wish to fly. It's not out of the ordinary by any means.
Click to expand...
Can a flight school legally do this without a 135 cert?
 
gasfiltered said:
All the schools in my area actually have Groupons for discovery flights. Agree with the idea that you might enjoy it more if you actually scheduled a lesson or photo flight. Plan to spend about $200/hour of flight time. No one will be the least bit bothered that you don't plan on coming back
Click to expand...

I would talk to the school and see what they would do rather than just buy the Groupon. Groupon is honestly a terrible deal for the school, they take something like 50% of the money.
 
My local field calls what you want to do "photo flights". Should be no problem at most places.
 
Ravioli said:
^^^ This one

The intro flights seem like loss leaders to get you to want to spend ~$8-10k on the PPL. If you're more interested in being a "flight tourist" schedule the plane and instructor for an our or two and when you get there tell them your intentions, that it may be your only lesson ever, etc. It might cost $350-400 but you'll either get it out of your system or catch the fever. Good money either way.

My CFI wasn't a fan of the Intro Flight sales mechanism. He felt it wasn't enough time for the potential student to decide if flying was really for them, and it wasn't a productive use of his time.

Another CFI I worked with told me of an elder lady who didn't want to get a ppl, but she enjoyed taking a "lesson" every few months. She got to go flying and probably retained more than he expected, but they both knew she'd never solo. I don't recall if she ever even got a Third Class / Student Certificate.

Anyone know what the conversion rate is for Intros to Students?
Click to expand...
The flight school I work maybe gets 30% to come back. It's just a guess from observations but I'd also be interested in seeing the exact number.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would talk to the school and see what they would do rather than just buy the Groupon. Groupon is honestly a terrible deal for the school, they take something like 50% of the money.
Click to expand...
You're right. I should have been more clear that I'm not advocating the use of Groupon for this, just an observation that some schools are looking to get butts in seats at any cost.
 
Clark1961 said:
Can a flight school legally do this without a 135 cert?
Click to expand...

Yes. Aerial photography is exempted from part 119. You just can't get off the plane away from base (beyond technical stops,you have to return to base at the end of a for-hire photo mission).
 
gasfiltered said:
You're right. I should have been more clear that I'm not advocating the use of Groupon for this, just an observation that some schools are looking to get butts in seats at any cost.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My thought is that, as the school, I'd rather give the person a cheaper rate that ends up saving them money vs. Groupon and puts more in my pocket. :)
 
gasfiltered said:
Yes. You can call it instruction. You can also, with simple letter of agreement, operate sight-seeing flights without a 135 cert.
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Calling it one thing while doing another leaves the school exposed to a violation. Would they ever get caught? Maybe it's unlikely, maybe a competitor would try to take advantage if they ever heard of it.
 
gasfiltered said:
Yes. You can call it instruction. You can also, with simple letter of agreement, operate sight-seeing flights without a 135 cert.
Click to expand...
You don't need to call it instruction. Part 119 lists aerial photography as an operation which doesn't require a commercial operator certificate.
 
Aside from discovery flights, most schools also operate as charters as well, and they are perfectly happy to engage you on a $500 hamburger run. I actually, in my pre-pilot days, chartered a 182 once to carry a couple of us to a project meeting over the Sierras in a place that would have otherwise required a very long drive and an overnight stay. The numbers worked out favorably.
 
Gas grass or ass if the flight school guy is into that sort of thing
 
exncsurfer said:
(Snip)

When I called the 2nd FBO and CFI to set up another one, that CFI told me discovery flights are a waste of time and that I should just book my first hour of training. This was more like it! He went through the preflight with me and had me do the takeoff and had me on the controls almost the whole time even if just 'following through', it was great. He had me do climbs descents, turns, he demo'd some stuff. It was maybe $50 more than the discovery flight.

So, if you are really interested in learning something, tell them you want an hour of flight training.
Click to expand...


:yeahthat:

Just arrange for your first lesson. The cost isn't prohibitively more expensive than a discovery flight and you will get far more out of it including a possible lifelong addiction.
 
exncsurfer said:
Can you tell us why you're 'not likely to ever be one'?

Anyhow, on discovery flights, I was interested in taking lessons so I booked a 'discovery flight'. It was a let down. Maybe I got a bad cfi or maybe thats just what discovery flights are, but he barely let me touch the controls and when he did it was straight and level. Then it was ok, lets head back, he takes the controls flies back and lands. It seemed almost like he was trying to show me how complicated it was. So, I got a 30 min(20 in the air?) scenic flight for $100.

When I called the 2nd FBO and CFI to set up another one, that CFI told me discovery flights are a waste of time and that I should just book my first hour of training. This was more like it! He went through the preflight with me and had me do the takeoff and had me on the controls almost the whole time even if just 'following through', it was great. He had me do climbs descents, turns, he demo'd some stuff. It was maybe $50 more than the discovery flight.

So, if you are really interested in learning something, tell them you want an hour of flight training.
Click to expand...
A good instructor will make the discovery flight lesson 1 as well.
 
Clark1961 said:
Can a flight school legally do this without a 135 cert?
Click to expand...
I see others have already answered.

Not to derail the thread, but I've always thought the 'sight-seeing' 'aerial photography' legality regs are asinine.

But that's just me.
 
I'm flying next week out of KLVK, I can take you up if you want to fly. Right seat only though.
 
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