How to Explain Plane Crashes

E

evapilotaz

En-Route
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
2,623
Location
Gilbert AZ. VFR All Year Baby
Display Name
Display name:
Drone airspace abuser
So a Friend of mine wants to go flying with me. He just learned there were two recent fatal plane crashes in AZ. First time in Small airplane for him.
I guess I need to learn to explain the risks of GA flying but don't know how.
Any advise.
 
It's a tough one.

Maybe point out that Sedona is one of the more challenging airports in Arizona. For your first flight, you'll be flying around the flats in a calm morning in perfect conditions (that's correct, right?), and that you're trained in much nastier conditions than you'll experience on that flight.

If there are special circumstances -- nasty winds, flatland pilots in the mountains for the first time, etc. -- it might be helpful to point those out.

You do need to express that you take the risks seriously, and are doing everything appropriate to minimize them.

Note that some people will not be comfy in a small aircraft no matter what. Don't push that, or the outcome may not be what you desire.
 
I agree with MAKG also if he is actually nervous, offer to take him around the pattern a time or two and see how he is doing.

Gives him a chance to get up and back down, see that you can takeoff, fly, and land, and it gives him a chance to back out if he is uncomfortable
 
evapilotaz said:
So a Friend of mine wants to go flying with me. He just learned there were two recent fatal plane crashes in AZ. First time in Small airplane for him.
I guess I need to learn to explain the risks of GA flying but don't know how.
Any advise.
Click to expand...

If he "wants to go flying with you", what's the problem?
 
let him know that a lot of accidents are weather, fuel, or poor judgement related and you have done your best to eliminate those factors from your flight (gorgeous day, loaded up with fuel, mostly sober...).

I might fumble around with my paperwork and say something like "nope, I don't see 'crashing' listed on my flight plan today".

I somewhat tailor my response about "is it dangerous?" based on who's asking it.
 
Flying is a difficult undertaking. It involves a complicated machine with an unreliable fuel gage, an ever changing air mass and a complicated set of federal regulations and controllers. Pilots get extensive training and have to demonstrate their abilities every two years but should really practice much more often to be proficient. All of this comes together in a dance we call flying. Any of these components can unexpectedly trip up the others and the consequences are somewhat more consequential than with a car crash because of the added energy of higher speed and altitude.
That said, I keep my plane in good condition having regular conversations with my mechanic, I do additional flight and communication training, check the weather before each flight and I flight plan to have 10 gallons of fuel after my planned flight. Any questions?
 
Last edited:
If he is nervous in a 172 let him get some time in a Quicksilver two place with no pod. After about 10 hrs in that he will think a 172 is a 747 and will love it.

Tony
 
There is no explaining crashes. If he wants to fly, he will fly, nothing you say or do will or should affect that decision.
 
Tell him flying is generally safe. The biggest problem it is so safe that airplane crashes 1000's of miles away can make front page news. While most car local accidents will barely make it into the newspaper.
But be honest with him. Overall the plane you fly is about as safe as riding a motorcycle. However you are going to improve those odds a lot by not flying in bad weather or flying low, in which case the odds of an accident are about the same as he had driving to the airport, assuming drove his car and not is motorcycle.

That oversimplfies it a lot, but even then it is probably more than he is really asking for.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Tell him it is dangerous. Don't justify it, don't make excuses. If he balks we don't want him as a pilot anyway.
 
Fatal accident rate flying small planes is roughly comparable to riding motorcycles.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Tell him it is dangerous. Don't justify it, don't make excuses. If he balks we don't want him as a pilot anyway.
Click to expand...

Totally counter productive to tell him it is dangerous. It doesn't mean anything and just scares someone that may already have reservations.

There are as many levels of Dangerous as there are of Safe.
It is not completely Safe, but it is not irresponsibly dangerous either.

It is safer the standing in the middle of the freeway and more dangerous than eating dinner(which is surprising more dangerous than most people think). So tell me how dangerous is this again?

Telling him it is dangerous just makes you look like someone with a death wish.

Brian
 
You may want to mention to him that is very risky getting out of bed in the morning. If he does get out of bed every day, he shouldn't fear flying with you.
 
You can tell him that you are trained for many types of emergencies should they arise
 
When I take someone up for the first time, if they are nervous [or afraid to fly! but want to get over it], I tell them that if they don't like it, I can be back on the ground in three (3) minutes. Then just after rotation and gear up, I ask them, "How are you doing? Do you want to land?" I have never had anyone who wanted to.

Most of the "danger" in flying is the pilot. We can actually prevent most accidents, unlike driving down the road where many accidents are caused by other drivers. I personally know several people who were killed when another driver crossed the yellow line and hit them [in both cars and motorcycles]. That type of accident is almost routine on the road, but is a very rare event in airplanes--there are what, two or three midair collisions in the whole country every year?

Risk is unavoidable as long as you are alive, all you can do is vary what you are exposed to. Getting out of bed in the morning is one set of risks, while staying in bed is a whole different set of risks.
 
I want to encourage people to fly, and help GA, but I sure don't like taking virgins on their first GA flight.

You never know what to expect, and that's a dangerous situation.

If they are really apprehensive, I suggest an intro flight with an instructor. Instructor's are used to dealing with this sort of thing ...
 
Giving first flights is wonderful! But then, I've only had one person unhappy, a cousin who insisted on going up on a windy, bumpy afternoon and lost lunch. Fortunately in a bag, so I didn't have to wash anything.
 
Why explain anything? If you have a few hundred hours and are confident of your abilitys, what's to explain? Does he ride in cars? They crash every day.
 
I went rock climbing for the first time near Bar Harbor ME this past weekend. I could see the chances of dying being very similar to motorcycle riding and flying. My son and I had a blast, double checked everything to the best of my knowledge and the next day flew home in our experimental with a little MVFR near home. We know the risk we are taking and do all that is possible to stay safe. Have fun and show him all of the ways that you will keep him safe...a good pre-flight, wx, fuel, exiting procedures, fire extinguisher/first aid kit location, fly slow when low near bird hazards, no steep turns or stalls, no showing off. Sneak a sick sack/paper towels on board. Fly at least once around the patch solo if it is a rental just to check things out.
 
Once he learned about the recent Crashes in AZ he started having second thoughts about flying. I basically explained to him "crashes will occur and we as pilots will learn from others mistakes" Also I said "I'm a trained pilot to handle emergencies in many different situations" "The aircraft goes through a series of maintenance checks every 100 Hr and annual" I'm not sure if that gave him any comfort. He still wants to go flying. I told him lets wait until Oct when the air is cooler and more stable. He said "That's too long to wait" Ok he is still motivated to go flying. As suggested I will make it a short around the patch flight for the first time out.

Thanks for the replies.
 
Let him preflight the plane with you too.
I bet he has questions about how parts of it work and what all you are looking at.

I have taken 2 people up that were very hesitant. Both are still scared of flying but both continue to fly with me to sort of push themselves. First flights for both were at night which I think helps pax stay calm too. Can't see the ground, air is clear and cool and smooth and it is pretty.

Keep us posted.
 
Well, he's motivated.

I like to point out why I'm doing things, and various redundancies.

"I'm turning off the alternator to verify that the battery shows a discharge, that goes away when the alternator is turned back on -- that means the alternator works."

"I'm testing the spark plugs. It has two sets in case one fouls or breaks. I don't like how this feels, so I'm going to burn it off."

"I'm setting the nav radios to assist us finding the destination if the GPS goes bad. The chart is here in case both go bad. The right seater has to hold it. You can follow our progress if you like."

"The checklists are to make sure I don't forget anything. Please hold them for me."
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Why explain anything? If you have a few hundred hours and are confident of your abilitys, what's to explain? Does he ride in cars? They crash every day.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

Although, I must say that plane crashes tap into everyone's basic fear of being out of control. Whereas they mistakenly think with driving that they are completely in control. Yeah, right. Just had a coworker who lost his wife and is now seriously maimed as a result of a wrong-way driver. I'm sure he never saw what was coming at him.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Fatal accident rate flying small planes is roughly comparable to riding motorcycles.
Click to expand...

That's what I tell them, with the addition of:

"and in the air there's not a lot of other people out there trying to kill you like there is on a bike. So, if you think I'm a better than average pilot then jump in. If you think I'm a worse than average pilot then your screwed! But, hey, I've logged over 1500 hours and I'm still here ain't I?"

:rofl:

:goofy:
 
Flying or driving, like anything else, is as safe or as risky as you want to make it. If you choose to drive on a rainy night when you're drunk and then speed, then it's pretty risky.
It's the same with flying, if you don't preflight the plane, try and push through bad weather, or fly reckless or careless, then flying is risky too.

Explain all the steps you've taken to make sure this flight will be safe and comfortable for them. Explain that planes do not just crash for no reason, wings do not fall off, they do not go out of control. Someone pushed the limits of their skills with weather or their mastery of the plane itself. You have to counteract all the years of sensationalistic, inaccurate reporting and BS they've been hearing on TV.

Pick the perfect day for flying and schedule a short flight, and let them know if for any reason they want to call it quits, you will land promptly. This is no time for showing off, because you will definitely make an enemy of aviation for life. Explain what you're doing during the preflight and run up, let them follow along with a sectional if they want, but don't let them have their head down too long, or they'll get airsick. Make all of your turns shallow and gentle, the same with power changes, and let them know in advance what you're doing so they're not surprised.

Remember, people fear what they don't understand.
 
One thing I've done for those who are new to flying in small planes once we're up in the air (say 2-3K' AGL) is to slowly reduce the power to idle and trim out to best-glide. Then I explain to them that we're currently experiencing what it's like to lose all engine power (disregard effects of windmilling propeller to avoid complicating the idea). They quickly realize that it's a nice, slow glide with nothing stressful about it. No death spiral, no screaming propeller noise like in the movies . . . just floating down nice and easy. Then power back up and continue on the flight/destination.

That revelation is normally enough to quell a mountain of fears about losing an engine/crashing. Now, is it a comprehensive look at all of the potential dangers of flying? Absolutely not. It simply addresses the biggest fear for most people in small aircraft: that the propeller stops and all hell breaks loose.
 
I had this issue when a friend asked me over the weekend was flying dangerous. Not only that they didn't know that the pilot doesn't have both hands on the yoke the whole trip long. I told the truth:

#1. Yes flying IS dangerous.

#2. No, a pilot doesn't have both hands on the Yoke the whole time.

#3. When you can't see out of the window you have to depend on your
instruments.

I also explained the advantages of flying and it's different for everyone but for me I showed the photos that my wife took when I was flying. I also said that life is to be LIVED and if there is something you want to do don't be afraid of it, just go out and DO IT.....whatever it is.


My quick pep talk didn't work all they could think about was crashing. I just let it be and when they are ready the teacher will appear, (So I hear).


Oh well
 
Flying isn't dangerous at all, crashing is dangerous.

Even then, 9/10 times it's your own damn fault.
 
Go flying in the early morning, when the air is smooth, and it's cool, less traffic....you want ideal conditions.
 
Explaining crashes:
Pilot: "**** happens. Some **** is better ****, some **** is worse ****."
Passenger: "No ****?"
Pilot: "Never happens."
Cheech: "Hey man, this is some really good ****!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top