How to check out a CFI's credentials?

[stevenhmiller]

I'm looking for a new CFI and want to be sure I get a trainer that is good, has the proper credentials and has a good pass rate for students. Are there any online resources to verify this information? What else should I be looking for?

 

[mondtster]

What do you mean by "has the proper credentials"? If by that you just mean "is a CFI" or "is a CFII" you can check the airman database for that. If you mean "has XXX hours in a certain type of aircraft" or "is a well liked and thorough instructor" it gets harder. In a case like that I'd ask other pilots in your area for a recommendation and/or ask the instructor for contact information for some of their former students to see what they thought of them.

With the Internet age I've found that you can find out a lot about how active a certain instructor/flight school is, look at their website and see how many first solo or new rating photos they have on there. If it hasn't been updated in a while you probably have your answer.

 

[stevenhmiller]

What do you mean by "has the proper credentials"? If by that you just mean "is a CFI" or "is a CFII" you can check the airman database for that. If you mean "has XXX hours in a certain type of aircraft" or "is a well liked and thorough instructor" it gets harder. In a case like that I'd ask other pilots in your area for a recommendation and/or ask the instructor for contact information for some of their former students to see what they thought of them.

With the Internet age I've found that you can find out a lot about how active a certain instructor/flight school is, look at their website and see how many first solo or new rating photos they have on there. If it hasn't been updated in a while you probably have your answer.

By proper credentials, I was referring to being sure they're actively training students. I've found that a CFI can have a CFI certification, but they don't actively train students. My friend is in that category. He renews his certification but isn't training anyone.

 

[airdale]

I'm looking for a new CFI and want to be sure I get a trainer that is good, has the proper credentials and has a good pass rate for students. Are there any online resources to verify this information? What else should I be looking for?

Those are good things to check, but not the most important. The most important thing is how you get along with him/her, something that you'll need at least one lesson to know although having lunch and talking will tell you a lot.

The other thing I would do is to ask for the names of two or three recent or current students. By specifying "recent" it make it harder for the CFI to give you his standard and glowing references from the past. Verify when you talk to the student that his experience is current or recent. No one will give you dissatisfied references but you can still learn a lot by asking questions and listening carefully to the answers.

Next most important (IMO but some will not agree) is getting an instructor with real-world experience flying in the system. IIRC it is possible to get a CFI rating having landed at only three airports and never having taken anything like a real cross-country trip. A guy/gal like this might even have logged a few hundred hours of dual given. Finally, you are much more likely to get a quality instructor if you avoid young time-builders and seek out someone who instructs for the love of it and has been doing it for a long time. Lots of threads here on selecting an instructor, well worth a search and some reading.

 

[ClimbnSink]

For a private just find someone you like that has an agreeable schedule. It ain't rocket piloting.

 

[jordane93]

Those who don't ask, will not receive. The easy way to figure out his pass rate is asking him what his pass rate is. What his schedule is? etc.

 

[James331]

Here's my 2 cents.

On his pilots license it should say Airline Transport Pilot, meaning he holds the highest level of pilots license one can get, and is likley not CFIing just to build time, and most likely has flown outside of CFIing, and has "real world" experince.

On his CFI ticket the DOT circle on the top right should be gold, signifying the CFI is a gold seal, 80% or higher first time pass rate, with more then a few students under his belt, he also holds a ground instructor rating.

This isn't the end all be all, quite a few subjective and personality type aspects too (see subjective), but what I laid out above is probably the easiest look and verify "black & white" way of doing it.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Ask the DPE for a recommendation. Ask the instructor himself. I see few that would lie and its easy to verify the pass rate with the DPE he uses.

 

[poadeleted20]

Here's my 2 cents.

On his pilots license it should say Airline Transport Pilot, meaning he holds the highest level of pilots license one can get, and is likley not CFIing just to build time, and most likely has flown outside of CFIing, and has "real world" experince.

On his CFI ticket the DOT circle on the top right should be gold, signifying the CFI is a gold seal, 80% or higher first time pass rate, with more then a few students under his belt, he also holds a ground instructor rating.

This isn't the end all be all, quite a few subjective and personality type aspects too (see subjective), but what I laid out above is probably the easiest look and verify "black & white" way of doing it.

I don't have a Gold Seal CFI because I never bothered getting a GI ticket, but if you ask the DPE's in my area about me, you'll get a very positive recommendation based on their experiences with the trainees I've sent them.

So, which do you think is more important -- having taken one more written test, or having sent a lot of applicants to examiners who were impressed by the results?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I don't have a Gold Seal CFI because I never bothered getting a GI ticket, but if you ask the DPE's in my area about me, you'll get a very positive recommendation based on their experiences with the trainees I've sent them.

So, which do you think is more important -- having taken one more written test, or having sent a lot of applicants to examiners who were impressed by the results?

Define "a lot of applicants".

 

[Everskyward]

Why would anyone care if a CFI had an ATP or not?

 

[dmspilot]

That poster has posted the same "advice" over and over. It's silly, and the funny thing is that OP's original CFI--the one that sucked--is an ATP.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Why would anyone care if a CFI had an ATP or not?

The premiss is that the ATP would have more experience. The problem is that what you want is a really good teacher. That person may or may not have an ATP.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Go fly With him for two hours. If you like him and you learn keep going. If not, stop and look for another one.

The pass rate at the end of the instruction is not the important part, at this time.

I think I had three different instructor sign my logbook, I wouldn't hold any of them responsible for my passing or failing on the check ride.

And, I learned differently from each of them, and they each had their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[bqmassey]

Being a good pilot and being a good teacher are two entirely different things.

What you want is a good teacher. This characteristic is independent of piloting experience. It could be found in a low-time hour builder just as easily as a high-time ATP. Either one has the prerequisite knowledge and skill-set to teach someone to be a private pilot, so it really does come down to teaching ability and the teaching-learning chemistry. If any hours count, it's hours of instruction given, not flight hours.

As far as credentials, there's no definitive way to find out their experience without looking at their logbook. A gold seal is good if they have one, but it's not bad if they don't. You can talk to DPE's, their chief instructor (if it's a school), prior students, other people at the airport.

 

[ja_user]

You can easily search the faa website for your local DPE's, call 5 of them and see who they would recommend in your area. Then go see each and every CFI recommended and take an intro lesson with each if possible. Pick the one you feel you can get along with, and learn the most from.

And ditch any one of them that guarantee's you will get your license in X amount of hours...

 

[James331]

Why would anyone care if a CFI had an ATP or not?

Simple,
because they already have enough hours and hold an ATP, so it's a fair guess that they aren't just CFIing to build hours, a common theme in bad CFIs, and a ATP CFI could just as easily be working else where in aviation if they wanted.

I don't have a Gold Seal CFI because I never bothered getting a GI ticket, but if you ask the DPE's in my area about me, you'll get a very positive recommendation based on their experiences with the trainees I've sent them.

So, which do you think is more important -- having taken one more written test, or having sent a lot of applicants to examiners who were impressed by the results?

This is a common comment of folks who don't hold a Gold Seal, I would want a CFI who "bothered" to get every rating they could, who was always looking to improve their craft.


Besides the gold seal is a no BS way of saying that the CFI has at least a over 80% first time pass rate and has recommended over ten applicants within 24 months, and holds a ground instructor rating.

There is no BSing a gold seal, it's verified by a FSDO (FAA office).



Like I said, this isn't the end all be all, but it's the easiest way to do a "black and white" type check on a CFI.

 

[ja_user]

Keep in mind the Gold Seal is a one time criteria, for a lifelong stamp. 10 students in 6 months and 8 of them pass?? I get the stamp, just because I gave the signoff....

Also, some of those ATP/CFI's may have a lot more experience, but haven't actually kept up with any new regs since the 1980's... There are good and bad out there, of all experience levels...

 

[James331]

Keep in mind the Gold Seal is a one time criteria, for a lifelong stamp. 10 students in 6 months and 8 of them pass?? I get the stamp, just because I gave the signoff....

Also, some of those ATP/CFI's may have a lot more experience, but haven't actually kept up with any new regs since the 1980's... There are good and bad out there, of all experience levels...

Like I said (twice actually) it's not the end all be all, just a answer to the OPs original question of a quick and easy way of vetting CFIs.

 

[ARFlyer]

I agree with the others that say go fly with him for an hour or so.

I can often tell during my first few hours with a guy if I'll like him as a student and the same with him.

There is nothing wrong with not clicking with your first CFI.

I try to be the best instructor for my student. I will not hide the fact that I can be very particular, stern, and unforgiving on repeated mistakes.

Just ask Tim...

 

[TUPilot]

Like I said (twice actually) it's not the end all be all, just a answer to the OPs original question of a quick and easy way of vetting CFIs.

And as numerous people have pointed out, its not a very good method.

I've recently seen two failures of private students with ATP CFIs because the CFIs simply haven't dealt with instructing for a while and don't know what is expected of their students; the DPE wasn't about to accept "that is how my airline captain instructor said to do it".

You might be able to make the argument for gold seal, but ATP is almost meaningless. Lots of good folks work part time as CFI's in addition to other careers and have no reason to spend time and money on an ATP, others are former military or flew commercially in an application that didn't require an ATP.

If you are worried your CFI is just a time builder you need to simply talk to them. If you can't get a good answer, look elsewhere. But even some airline bound time builders are great instructors.

Talk to your CFI. Determine if you can learn from them. See what works for you!

 

[ja_user]

Like I said (twice actually) it's not the end all be all, just a answer to the OPs original question of a quick and easy way of vetting CFIs.

It is one way, but it doesn't tell you about recency.. I would agree that this, recent student references and a flight would be plenty...

 

[willywildes]

Also check to see if they have a current medical. You would be Surprised.

 

[Aeric]

Having an ATP means little IMHO. My CFI didn't have one, but she was a part-time teacher at a local university, that says a lot.
The advice regarding asking a DPE seems on-target.
Also, just asking around will be helpful.

 

[Everskyward]

Simple,
because they already have enough hours and hold an ATP, so it's a fair guess that they aren't just CFIing to build hours, a common theme in bad CFIs, and a ATP CFI could just as easily be working else where in aviation if they wanted.

No, it's not that simple. The best (and first) CFI I had didn't have enough hours for an ATP. Another had no interest in getting an ATP because he was never wanted to go on to any job which required one. I would say having an ATP and being a good CFI has very little correlation at all.

 

[timwinters]

Just ask Tim...

Just call me d***head!

 

[poadeleted20]

The premiss is that the ATP would have more experience. The problem is that what you want is a really good teacher. That person may or may not have an ATP.

What you really want is both experience and teaching skill.

 

[poadeleted20]

This is a common comment of folks who don't hold a Gold Seal, I would want a CFI who "bothered" to get every rating they could, who was always looking to improve their craft.

Please explain to me how taking an additional written test which covers virtually nothing more than has already been tested would improve an experienced CFI's craft.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Please explain to me how taking an additional written test which covers virtually nothing more than has already been tested would improve an experienced CFI's craft.

I will say that the gold seal means that the instructor has a verified pass rate. All other comments are true too. That's why my vote is still to ask the local DPE.

 

[stevenhmiller]

What you really want is both experience and teaching skill.

Exactly!
Also, I want to be sure the references given aren't just family members and good friends just trying to help him out. I know I can probably check the cert online with the FAA website, though. But, you never know how shady people can be. That's happened to me in the past.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

What you really want is both experience and teaching skill.

Yes, demand both

Many moons ago, I got to vet applicants at a well known 135 cargo airline. I would take them for a day in my Lance and see how they flew. I was shocked at the number of CFII that could not fly on instruments.

 

[dtuuri]

I'm looking for a new CFI and want to be sure I get a trainer that is good, has the proper credentials and has a good pass rate for students. Are there any online resources to verify this information? What else should I be looking for?

Just look for somebody who knows a bit more than you do about flying. Forget online sour grapes.

dtuuri

 

[dtuuri]

Exactly!
Also, I want to be sure the references given aren't just family members and good friends just trying to help him out. I know I can probably check the cert online with the FAA website, though. But, you never know how shady people can be. That's happened to me in the past.

Are you a beginner or just having trouble?

dtuuri

 

[EdFred]

The gold seal is not a guarantee of pass rate or anything else. Former head of NAFI said "if you ever want the gold seal, let me know." That was after I passed my first student.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Credentialist stuff is dumb. Go fly with CFIs, they are people, then decide if this is a person you want to pay money to spend time with. Stop thinking so much and go do something.

 

[danhagan]

I'm looking for a new CFI and want to be sure I get a trainer that is good, has the proper credentials and has a good pass rate for students. Are there any online resources to verify this information? What else should I be looking for?

Call the local DPE and ask which CFI seems to have their students ready for checkride and have been the easiest to test. I did this years ago and the DPE was impressed I would call and ask prior to lessons.

 

[airdale]

Being a good pilot and being a good teacher are two entirely different things. ...

You're setting up a false choice here. Of course the OP wants a CFI who is good at the act of teaching. And of course there are new CFIs who are skilled at teaching (though I would argue that this is unlikely unless they have developed and practiced the skill in some other endeavor.) Being good at the act of teaching is a necessary but not a sufficient qualification for being a good teacher. If the teacher has nothing in his/her bag of experience, nothing to teach, then no amount of skill in the act of teaching can overcome it.

Either one has the prerequisite knowledge and skill-set to teach someone to be a private pilot If any hours count, it's hours of instruction given, not flight hours.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. That experience bag from which a CFI teaches fills very slowly and it fills mostly from doing real flying, not from dual-given. Sure, the junior CFI can be an expert in all the rules and regs arcana and should be, but there is a lot that goes on out there that is not in any textbook. I'll even stipulate that the junior CFI is usually completely capable of stuffing the student's head with the arcana and teaching him the basic mechanical skills necessary to pass the PPL check ride, but that unfortunate student will be much less prepared to fly in the real world compared to a student who has learned from the voice of experience.

 

[James331]

The gold seal is not a guarantee of pass rate or anything else. Former head of NAFI said "if you ever want the gold seal, let me know." That was after I passed my first student.

So he's going to just get you a gold seal, without the 80% pass rate, 10+ application, GI, etc?
It's so my understanding that's a FSDO thing, your buddy is a Fed?


There is much more than certificates, of course, but that's wasn't the original question.


As far as the folks saying that a ATP and Gold Seal don't mean anything, how many saying this hold an ATP & Gold Seal???

 

[petrolero]

This is a common comment of folks who don't hold a Gold Seal, I would want a CFI who "bothered" to get every rating they could, who was always looking to improve their craft.

I wouldn't. I would care more about the instructor's student count and pass rate over the most recent few years. And even then I'd have to see him in action to know if he was really good for me.

The gold star to some degree and especially the ATP are meaningless to me in choosing an instructor. My most recent instructor (for my IR), for example, was a kid. A fresh-faced 27-year-old CFII/MEI out of AZ State's program (and ex-Army helo mech). He had fewer total hours than I did when I started my IR, but he had been VERY BUSY in those hours.

He was the lowest on the totem pole at my school. He had to do dispatch for a large fleet of mainly Cirrus aircraft, which meant constantly scheduling, staging and fueling them, while also instructing.

And yet the kid ALWAYS came prepared for my lesson in my airplane and often had exercises drawn up for me. And he very seldom showed up late.

I think his mil background served him very well. The kid was serious and dedicated.

Oh and I aced my oral and check ride. The DPE had very kind words for me and for my instructor.

So nah... gold seal schmold seal.

 

[EdFred]

So he's going to just get you a gold seal, without the 80% pass rate, 10+ application, GI, etc?
It's so my understanding that's a FSDO thing, your buddy is a Fed?


There is much more than certificates, of course, but that's wasn't the original question.


As far as the folks saying that a ATP and Gold Seal don't mean anything, how many saying this hold an ATP & Gold Seal???

Well, he's not in charge anymore. But yes at the time, without the 10/80% I could get a Gold Seal.