How To Buy A New Car

[Non Compos Mentis]

#1- I will NOT tell the dealer I am a cash buyer. In-house financing is a nice profit center for the dealerships, and the purchase price can be negotiated a bit lower if the dealer knows they will earn some money back through financing.

The sales dude will always ask during negotiations: "How will you be paying for this?"

And my standard answer is: "No reason to think about that if we can't agree on a price".

When buying my current pick-up, the question came up four or five times. My answer never changes. I think I did pretty good- After we agreed on the price, the sales guy's shoulders slumped when he saw me pull the checkbook out of my pocket.

Also- By the time the checkbook came out, it was late in the evening, after hours, and everybody had gone home except the salesman and the guy in back waiting to do the paperwork, and hopefully sell me some extended warrentee, undercoating, floormats, yada yada....

We negotiated an "Out-the-Door" price. Told the paperwork guy he could throw in extras if he wanted, but the amount on the check I write is not changing!
He finished the paperwork pretty quickly!

 

[docmirror]

Also- By the time the checkbook came out, it was late in the evening, after hours, and everybody had gone home except the salesman and the guy in back waiting to do the paperwork, and hopefully sell me some extended warrentee, undercoating, floormats, yada yada....

We negotiated an "Out-the-Door" price. Told the paperwork guy he could throw in extras if he wanted, but the amount on the check I write is not changing!
He finished the paperwork pretty quickly!

Oh! Oh! I forgot that part. We got the total, and I wrote the check like you then I got to the finisher guy in back. He started with the extended warantee at some ridiculous price like $1200 - due all TODAY. Only good for the next 10 minutes. My wife got started on this guy too. I actually felt sorry for him. I was considering some extended coverage cause it was for my kids. Within 20 minutes he was down to $400, and wouldn't go lower.

The second one we got to the closer guy in back and he started at $1000 for the same extended package. The only extra I bought was a dealer installed aftermarket engine block heater. The car was going to MN and based on the winter they had up there, it was a really good investment.

 

[JoseCuervo]

#1- I will NOT tell the dealer I am a cash buyer. In-house financing is a nice profit center for the dealerships, and the purchase price can be negotiated a bit lower if the dealer knows they will earn some money back through financing.

The sales dude will always ask during negotiations: "How will you be paying for this?"

And my standard answer is: "No reason to think about that if we can't agree on a price".

When buying my current pick-up, the question came up four or five times. My answer never changes. I think I did pretty good- After we agreed on the price, the sales guy's shoulders slumped when he saw me pull the checkbook out of my pocket.

Also- By the time the checkbook came out, it was late in the evening, after hours, and everybody had gone home except the salesman and the guy in back waiting to do the paperwork, and hopefully sell me some extended warrentee, undercoating, floormats, yada yada....

We negotiated an "Out-the-Door" price. Told the paperwork guy he could throw in extras if he wanted, but the amount on the check I write is not changing!
He finished the paperwork pretty quickly!

Do you think they made money on you?

 

[Henning]

Do you think they made money on you?

The only time a dealer is going to make a deal and not make money is when he's been sitting on a car >90 days, at 120 they're willing to really work it out the door to get it off the floor plan as it's really starting to cost them money.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I'd recommend buying an inexpensive new car and keeping it for 8-10 years. After that, the cost of repairs and maintenance gets high enough to where you're not saving all that much money. I've had my car for 12 years and I've found that for the last couple of years I've only saved $500 or so per year over having traded it. It's not worth that little money to be driving around in an old car.

Yup, that's what I do. I drove a Honda Accord I bought used for about 8 years, all it ever needed was an alternator and a slave cylinder for the clutch. I got rid of it after it developed a fuel leak and had a few other things that would have cost more than it was worth to fix. Got a 5-year-old Volvo in excellent shape for less than 1/4 of the purchase price almost 8 years ago now, and I've only spent about $2500 in mx on it in that time. Driver's seat heat quit which sucks, otherwise working pretty well.

Overall, I think I'm averaging about $1000/year plus fuel and insurance on cars. Leaves me lots of flying money.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I buy lease-return cars, use an exceptionally good broker who buys at the manufacturers' auctions, charges a flat $500.00 over auction price. He does everything, sorts through the cars, eliminates many for reasons I likely would have missed, performs a very thorough inspection and takes the car to the dealer for all warranty and service work prior to delivery, will sell an extended warranty (only if asked for one), will handle financing (only if asked), delivers the car to us shined-up and pretty.

Usually several thousand below what the cars are selling for in the open market, for a whole lot less certainty, and a whole lot more work.

I've bought two cars this way, been very pleased.

I was put in touch with this guy by another PoA-er who, now, just calls up the guy, tells him "I'm ready for a car," and takes delivery when the right car is found. Too good a deal, and literally no work.

That sounds like a great way to do it! Now, how can I find someone like that up here? Not that I mind driving a car back from TX every few years, but I'm guessing it's a lot harder to get the winter packages down there!

My current car's winter package: Heated seats, heated mirrors, windshield wipers on the headlights, etc... Sure would like a heated steering wheel next time around.

 

[dell30rb]

Tried to do a Prius that way but the lowest price was a southern CA dealer but I couldn't get a temporary plate. That meant shipping or paying CA sales tax and getting a CA plate.

Hell i'd just drive it. I was caught in a ridiculous catch-22 with a plate while buying a car in NC. Drove it around for 2-3 days, never got pulled. I carried the recently signed bill of sale and insurance info with me.

Although, in CA they would probably lock you up for that. So maybe not.

 

[rpadula]

Best/funniest (used) car buying advice I ever saw on another forum:

9. (Maybe not everyone's cup of tea) I have negotiated, owned, and driven into the ground a long string of purple or purplish cars ("merlot," "plum," "metallic blue," "aubergine" etc.). I'm not particularly fond of purple, but I am fond of a bargain, and car salespeople are especially happy to deal on purple cars because NOBODY wakes up and says, "gee, I'd like to buy a purple used car today." If you are that person you can get a great price.
​

I have yet to try this one out, though.

 

[Geico266]

WOW! I have read the entire thread and have to say there are some very savvy people here.

Thank you, one and all for the great advice.

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

Do you think they made money on you?

Of course.

If they didn't make any money, they would not have agreed on that price.
I expect the sales guy to get a paycheck.

...but I'm sure they made less money than if I paid what they were asking.

 

[Graueradler]

I wrote a spec for exactly the vehicle that I wanted and sent it to every dealer within a reasonable radius and let them make me offers. I was satisfied with the result. Did considerably better than at the home town dealer who had already told me that they were not interested in selling at a price acceptable to me.

 

[Geico266]

I wrote a spec for exactly the vehicle that I wanted and sent it to every dealer within a reasonable radius and let them make me offers. I was satisfied with the result. Did considerably better than at the home town dealer who had already told me that they were not interested in selling at a price acceptable to me.

That's what I have found in the past. Locally, they think you would never travel to buy a car.

We have already gotten offers from dealers 200 miles away for invoice cost.

 

[docmirror]

What I found strange was the difference between make dealers. At first, I wanted to buy a pair of Ford C-Max. I knew they were a little higher price, and a bit lower econ but I wanted to stay with Ford if possible. I went to the local dealer whom I had some business with in the past, and they kinda chased me off by just quoting me a near retail price and not much negotiation. I went to another dealer and basically the same thing. I called another and told him I was ready to buy and what I needed and he didn't discount at all.

I got the impression that Ford wasn't hungry enough at the time, or they were instructed by the region not to cut prices on the C-Max for a while. The local dealer was a nice guy, but he wasn't going to drop his price. I drove both Prius' over to show him my deals and he agreed he couldn't do any better off his retail. Oh well.

 

[Henning]

Best/funniest (used) car buying advice I ever saw on another forum:

9. (Maybe not everyone's cup of tea) I have negotiated, owned, and driven into the ground a long string of purple or purplish cars ("merlot," "plum," "metallic blue," "aubergine" etc.). I'm not particularly fond of purple, but I am fond of a bargain, and car salespeople are especially happy to deal on purple cars because NOBODY wakes up and says, "gee, I'd like to buy a purple used car today." If you are that person you can get a great price.
​

I have yet to try this one out, though.

When I worked for Landrum Chevrolet, I could have sold you a NEW purple Chevy Metro for $5000 (what it eventually sold for) that had been on the lot for over 270 days. That was less than half the sticker.

 

[docmirror]

Both of my Prius are Habanero. Think reflective orange safety cone - but brighter. The second one we got was sitting so long the battery was dead. Got a new batt before pickup.

 

[N747JB]

What I found strange was the difference between make dealers. At first, I wanted to buy a pair of Ford C-Max. I knew they were a little higher price, and a bit lower econ but I wanted to stay with Ford if possible. I went to the local dealer whom I had some business with in the past, and they kinda chased me off by just quoting me a near retail price and not much negotiation. I went to another dealer and basically the same thing. I called another and told him I was ready to buy and what I needed and he didn't discount at all.

I got the impression that Ford wasn't hungry enough at the time, or they were instructed by the region not to cut prices on the C-Max for a while. The local dealer was a nice guy, but he wasn't going to drop his price. I drove both Prius' over to show him my deals and he agreed he couldn't do any better off his retail. Oh well.

It's funny that when hot new cars come out they aren't discounted much, I'm pretty sure if you had looked at the Prius when it first hit the market, you might have been down right insulted by the amount over sticker you'd have been asked to pay. I think we sold one C-Max at sticker, it was the only one we had allocated for the next 30 days. The factory, at least Ford, doesn't care what we sell a car for, as long as we sell them, we can go broke and they're OK as long as we are moving metal.

 

[docmirror]

It's funny that when hot new cars come out they aren't discounted much, I'm pretty sure if you had looked at the Prius when it first hit the market, you might have been down right insulted by the amount over sticker you'd have been asked to pay. I think we sold one C-Max at sticker, it was the only one we had allocated for the next 30 days. The factory, at least Ford, doesn't care what we sell a car for, as long as we sell them, we can go broke and they're OK as long as we are moving metal.

My brother works at Ford in Sandy Eggo. He is in the shop but they have regional sales meetings at his dealer office sometimes cause they like to get out of LA for a few days. He has some stories about the regional sales meetings. Stuff being thrown, loud shouting, etc. He said Ford mfg is going to ship cars, and they have to go somewhere, somehow. The guys I spoke with weren't interested in haggling. Maybe they were warned about my wife.

2012 was the intro year for the Prius C. We bought 2013, they still discounted some. I didn't check on the 2012 prices, but I doubt is was anything over market like the first years of the Miata or some other iconic cars.

 

[N747JB]

That's what I have found in the past. Locally, they think you would never travel to buy a car.

We have already gotten offers from dealers 200 miles away for invoice cost.

It's funny, we have had a guy fly from Arizona to Atlanta to pick up a Shelby GT500 we ordered for him at MSRP. He was thrilled at the price and drove it home! We sell folks 100+ miles away, sometimes more and yet occasionally I'll see a car in the shop or around town with a sticker or a tag from a dealer 100 miles away. I guess it all evens out.
I lost a deal on a van over the weekend, I didn't have one in stock and another dealer did, he sold it for $900 under cost, including holdback, so it was about $1700 under invoice. didn't make sense to me, but he's the one that has 10 2013 vans he's trying to dump. Same dealer sells Raptors for $5k over sticker, so he's not going broke.

 

[docmirror]

John, what can you do me on a Raptor truck? I have a 2000 Dodge 1500 I'm going to dump and will need a new truck. 2WD, no fancy crap I like weird colors and would prefer a standard shift if there is such a thing, and cruise. Small engine, extended or club cab, not crew.

<edit; nevermind. I don't want the Raptor, I want an XL. Just checked ford.com>

 

[N747JB]

John, what can you do me on a Raptor truck? I have a 2000 Dodge 1500 I'm going to dump and will need a new truck. 2WD, no fancy crap I like weird colors and would prefer a standard shift if there is such a thing, and cruise. Small engine, extended or club cab, not crew.

<edit; nevermind. I don't want the Raptor, I want an XL. Just checked ford.com>

I'll sell you one at invoice less half the holdback, on a base F150, that's about $3-400 under invoice, you get the rebates. no standard shift anymore.

 

[Daytonabch04]

I'll sell you one at invoice less half the holdback, on a base F150, that's about $3-400 under invoice, you get the rebates. no standard shift anymore.

What would you do for a trade-in for a 2013 Fusion Energi Titanium with 17k loaded? I'm sure I could find a new Ford to drive around in... I need to lower my payment for my airplane fund.

 

[docmirror]

Lemme go drive one. My Dodge drives well, but it's getting long in the tooth. I gotta tow a 27' boat so I'm gonna want the tow pkg if it includes a big rad and trans cooler. Red or purple, or green or something. I'm gonna fix the AC on my Dodge and try to sell it this spring. Do I get a full tank of gas to head back to TX? lol

 

[denverpilot]

Okay, confession time.

I made the mistake of letting my wife drive my truck. It has a heated steering wheel. Now she has to have one, or she gets my truck.

Sounds like you're getting a new truck. I see no problem here. What are you buying?

As far as deals, best technique ever is to just fax a final offer... Yes I said fax... To three dealerships, which you've done your homework on, and know they all have the exact vehicle you want. Make it clear in the letter it's a hard offer, and the first dealer to respond at that price or lower, wins.

I got a vehicle I wanted within $80 of the offer that way, and the additional $80 was negotiated on the phone in five minutes.

Why walk in the door at all?

The RV trailer, we did some homework, waited until right after the January RV show, knew they'd have stock on their lot, that they couldn't sell at the show (unpopular floor plans. l knew what other folks said they typically paid at shows, and walked around a few lots right after the show.

Found one we wanted and asked "innocently" if show pricing was still available. It always is in January. New year's models are already coming in. In fact, since we have no kids, they gave us show pricing on a 2014 of the same floor plan... It is a floor plan that appeals only to couples, as it doesn't have bunks and lots of sleeping space for tons of kids.

Even then, we knew "show pricing" is crap. Only thing that counts is bottom dollar.

The other key is always be willing to walk away. If you aren't talking about buying something rare, any dealer can order it. In fact it'll probably be trucked across town from the jerk dealer who wouldn't make the deal. Set the instant gratification hunter/gatherer crap aside, if the numbers don't work.

Practice if you must. Go into at least two dealerships with no intention of buying a thing and leave. Get a feel for how liberating it is to control your own purchase if you've always left with a vehicle. They'll either watch you leave, or they'll make you a deal you really can't refuse.

Car dealers are nothing more than entertainment. Slow boring entertainment.

Card earlier ships are like poker. If you haven't figured out who the sucker at the table is, it's you.

 

[denverpilot]

My brother works at Ford in Sandy Eggo. He is in the shop but they have regional sales meetings at his dealer office sometimes cause they like to get out of LA for a few days. He has some stories about the regional sales meetings. Stuff being thrown, loud shouting, etc. He said Ford mfg is going to ship cars, and they have to go somewhere, somehow. The guys I spoke with weren't interested in haggling. Maybe they were warned about my wife.

Heh. Coffee is for closers, he said as he pulled a pair of brass balls from his briefcase...

Watch Glengarry Glen Ross prior to any dealing with salespeople for motivation and insight.

 

[Bill]

When I worked for Landrum Chevrolet, I could have sold you a NEW purple Chevy Metro for $5000 (what it eventually sold for) that had been on the lot for over 270 days. That was less than half the sticker.

My Dad once got an outstanding deal on a Dodge Powerwagon 4x4 pickup. It was puke green, just the fugliest thing you ever saw. Bare bones truck, vinyl seats, black rubber floors, painted metal everywhere, no headliner, etc. Old school pickup.

It has sat on the dealer lot for nearly a year, they were happy to pretty much give it away to make it go away.

 

[Henning]

My Dad once got an outstanding deal on a Dodge Powerwagon 4x4 pickup. It was puke green, just the fugliest thing you ever saw. Bare bones truck, vinyl seats, black rubber floors, painted metal everywhere, no headliner, etc. Old school pickup.

It has sat on the dealer lot for nearly a year, they were happy to pretty much give it away to make it go away.

Yeah, they are buying it with their own money every month on floor plan reductions, dealers hate doing that.

 

[jhausch]

John, is the EAA partner program with Ford a good deal for the buyer?

 

[Dean]

I only by new if I can buy it off a government contract, the 2010 Hemi Charger we bought was discounted $13k off the sticker. Other than that I let someone else take the beating.

 

[N747JB]

I remember some of those meetings, of course they stopped here in 2009 or 2010 when production became less than or equal to demand, now it's more of the dealers begging for product! I've got 4 or 5 Explorers in stock and would love to have 15 or 20.
If your brother still works at a dealership, you can get D-plan which is basically the same as the Ford employee plan, I think it's $100.00 or so higher, but it's the cheapest way to buy a new Ford.

My brother works at Ford in Sandy Eggo. He is in the shop but they have regional sales meetings at his dealer office sometimes cause they like to get out of LA for a few days. He has some stories about the regional sales meetings. Stuff being thrown, loud shouting, etc. He said Ford mfg is going to ship cars, and they have to go somewhere, somehow. The guys I spoke with weren't interested in haggling. Maybe they were warned about my wife.

2012 was the intro year for the Prius C. We bought 2013, they still discounted some. I didn't check on the 2012 prices, but I doubt is was anything over market like the first years of the Miata or some other iconic cars.

 

[N747JB]

John, is the EAA partner program with Ford a good deal for the buyer?

I think it's X-plan, so it's pretty good, especially if you aren't inclined to negoiate and want to know exactly what you are paying for the car with no surprises. It works out to right around invoice, no doc fees, no mandated add ons, you can buy stuff, but nothing is "forced" on you like at some dealerships. It's a fair price, but if you want to get out and haggle you can most likely get a lower price, but then the doc fees and add ons can put you back over the X-plan pricing.

 

[N747JB]

Yeah, they are buying it with their own money every month on floor plan reductions, dealers hate doing that.

Henning you've been away from the car business a long time, I haven't seen a floor plan curtailment in 20 years on a new car. Of course we do always want to sell the oldest units. The other benefit of finding an older unit is the price of the vehicle itself. I bought my son's truck last June, it was a 2013 built in December of 2012, the same truck built in May was $700 or $800 higher. Ford has 2 or 3 price "adjustments" during the year, mostly higher, actually 95% of the time it's higher, so old and ugly will be the cheapest.

 

[FormerHangie]

One thing I seriously don't like about car shopping is the stuff that the dealers add on. When we bought my wife's car, they'd added a $600 "protection package" which included some decent floor mats and not much else, and the "doc fee" has grown to a ridiculous level, typically $500 - $600 here in Georgia.

Even worse is if you want a Toyota in the Southeast, the distributor adds a bunch of junk as well. Fortunately for me there's nothing Toyota makes that I particularly want.

 

[docmirror]

I remember some of those meetings, of course they stopped here in 2009 or 2010 when production became less than or equal to demand, now it's more of the dealers begging for product! I've got 4 or 5 Explorers in stock and would love to have 15 or 20.
If your brother still works at a dealership, you can get D-plan which is basically the same as the Ford employee plan, I think it's $100.00 or so higher, but it's the cheapest way to buy a new Ford.

Ya know, I asked him about that last time we talked about getting some cars. He can't use his D-plan for anyone but immediate family like wife, kids, and has to be titled in his name. If he transfers title within 36 months of purchase, I think he gets dinged with a charge back from dealer. Also, the destination or CA specific extra fees, plus me going all the way out there to get it made the whole thing a non-starter. I think his C-Max price was maybe $350 less than I was quoted at the local F dealer. It would cost me almost that much to fly out, hotels, meals, gas coming back.

I also like to buy local when I can. I took my 07 Prius into the place we got the 2 Prius Cs and had them look at a noise in the rear wheel bearings, and they put the wheel bearings in the right rear for no charge. That was nice.

 

[DaleB]

One thing I seriously don't like about car shopping is the stuff that the dealers add on. When we bought my wife's car, they'd added a $600 "protection package" which included some decent floor mats and not much else, and the "doc fee" has grown to a ridiculous level, typically $500 - $600 here in Georgia.

Before we close a deal on a vehicle, I tell the salesdroid that I'll save them some time and we'll WALK AWAY if they try to sell us the paint protection, interior treatment, rustproofing or any of the other crap they try to push. It's non-negotiable. They protest, we get up and walk. It works.

The last time I told them the doc fee was ridiculous, and I wasn't paying it. "Oh, we have to charge that, everyone pays it". I said, "Well, gee, I wish we hadn't wasted all this time negotiating then. I'm not going to pay it. Sorry we couldn't make a deal." Stood up, started walking. They weren't happy, but they waived the fee rather than lose the sale.

The dealer is counting on you being emotionally invested in the car or truck by that point. Usually by then I'm just fed up enough to be on the verge of walking out anyway, so it's not a stretch for me to play hardball on the added profit items -- which is all those things are.

 

[N747JB]

Either he doesn't understand D plan or his dealer is an #@@hole.
D-plan is for immediate family as well as parents, siblings including step parents/step siblings. The plan can be used at any Ford dealership, not just the one where the eligible employee works, my cousin gave his sister a D-plan, she lives in Vegas and he lives in Atlanta.
Some dealers are very controlling about their D-plans, but in reality it's a benefit provided by Ford for the dealership employees, we do get a notification if one of our employees applies for a D-plan. But, I think it's mainly to make sure they still work here.

Ya know, I asked him about that last time we talked about getting some cars. He can't use his D-plan for anyone but immediate family like wife, kids, and has to be titled in his name. If he transfers title within 36 months of purchase, I think he gets dinged with a charge back from dealer. Also, the destination or CA specific extra fees, plus me going all the way out there to get it made the whole thing a non-starter. I think his C-Max price was maybe $350 less than I was quoted at the local F dealer. It would cost me almost that much to fly out, hotels, meals, gas coming back.

I also like to buy local when I can. I took my 07 Prius into the place we got the 2 Prius Cs and had them look at a noise in the rear wheel bearings, and they put the wheel bearings in the right rear for no charge. That was nice.

 

[docmirror]

Either he doesn't understand D plan or his dealer is an #@@hole.
D-plan is for immediate family as well as parents, siblings including step parents/step siblings. The plan can be used at any Ford dealership, not just the one where the eligible employee works, my cousin gave his sister a D-plan, she lives in Vegas and he lives in Atlanta.
Some dealers are very controlling about their D-plans, but in reality it's a benefit provided by Ford for the dealership employees, we do get a notification if one of our employees applies for a D-plan. But, I think it's mainly to make sure they still work here.

It could also be that my brother is being a dork about it, and didn't want to deal with the hassle, combined with the dealership sales mgr who is mostly an azz. Get this, the sales mgr drives a leased black Lincoln MZDBZ or something. He sends it back to the shop every month for oil change, filter, wash, wax, etc. Puts about 1000 miles per month on it. Everyone hates him.

 

[N747JB]

I hate those add ons as well, I don't believe in the paint/fabric protection products, or mop and slop as they are referred to in the industry.
While we have a doc fee, I would rather we didn't, but it's what the market in Georgia is right now, lower prices, higher fees. Kind of like when a state has no income tax, but sales tax is higher than most, it has to come from somewhere.
Southeast Toyota, I believe, is the last independant Toyota distributor left in the country. They have a reputation for being brutal on the dealers with add ons, port fees, etc. Back in the 80's they would add these hokey looking vinyl tops of Tercels! They were hot sellers and added at least $100.00 per car for Southeast Toyota. They also loved to add "chrome" wheel covers that would rust to pieces in 12-18 months.

One thing I seriously don't like about car shopping is the stuff that the dealers add on. When we bought my wife's car, they'd added a $600 "protection package" which included some decent floor mats and not much else, and the "doc fee" has grown to a ridiculous level, typically $500 - $600 here in Georgia.

Even worse is if you want a Toyota in the Southeast, the distributor adds a bunch of junk as well. Fortunately for me there's nothing Toyota makes that I particularly want.

 

[N747JB]

It could also be that my brother is being a dork about it, and didn't want to deal with the hassle, combined with the dealership sales mgr who is mostly an azz. Get this, the sales mgr drives a leased black Lincoln MZDBZ or something. He sends it back to the shop every month for oil change, filter, wash, wax, etc. Puts about 1000 miles per month on it. Everyone hates him.

Sounds like a real peach!

 

[us AAirways]

What about GAP insurance? Worth it or a rip off? It is only good for 2 years, seems like you could still be upside down then? Even more so because of the gap insurance?

 

[Flymeariver]

What about GAP insurance? Worth it or a rip off? It is only good for 2 years, seems like you could still be upside down then? Even more so because of the gap insurance?

All the GAP coverage Ive bought was 5 yr terms. Well worth the cost when financing considering that otherwise you may cut a big check if vehicle gets totaled while under a loan.