How to best allocate avail funds for PPL and beyond???

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marquezjc

Filing Flight Plan
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Zen_Blowfish
Hello everyone,

Brand new to the forum but have been reading non stop and want to thank everyone in advance for the advice already there in posts and any info you can provide now. So here's my situation....

I'm 36, married and currently working in Northern VA. My wife has had a work offer extended to move to the NC coast. In trying to figure out what I would do down there, I figured this might be a good time to actually go after my dream of flying. Since I'm in a pretty nice position where I wouldn't need to worry about bringing in any income immediately and I have some cash on hand, I'm trying to see if actually attaining that goal of flying for a career would be doable. I have no interest in being an airline pilot or anything like that. I'd love to eventually be able to fly something like King Air type aircraft (Being that my knowledge/experience is very limited, I know this could change of course).

I have 25K on hand available to start just for this opportunity, and with the estimated cost of 7K to 8K for PPL (Package starts at 7K and I know it could take longer), I was hoping to get some opinions on what would be a good way to utilize the funds to maximize my movement up. In "your" experiences, how far could that amount realistically reach??? The same school offers a package for IFR rating (Yes I know this would be down the road some time) for $7300 using C172s with Garmin units..... does this sound like a decent deal?

I've wanted to fly as a job since I was in the CAP when I was in high school.... life happened so I was never able to realize that.... So please let me know what you guys/girls think out there. I'm very aware that this would take years probably... lucky for me I have a kick ass wife that is all about it! Thanks again for all the info!!!
 
25k gives you the ratings, but you'll need to find the cash for hour building between your IR and commercial.
 
I'd recommend looking into gliders for your PPL and time building.

I'd also consider buying a budget aircraft for everything, then selling it, or CFIing in it after your CPL.
 
If you are going for the whole 9 yards, you're probably best off buy a $15k Cessna 152 with a basic IFR panel, and you can do all your training and time building, with the exception of Commercial and CFI in it. After you get your CFI, now you can train others in it and have them pay for your next 1200 hours to get your ATP.
 
Either join a club that flys an economical aircraft,or go get yourself a nice IFR 172 or Cherokee 160 get your ratings and have a little fun.
 
frfly172 said:
Either join a club that flys an economical aircraft,or go get yourself a nice IFR 172 or Cherokee 160 get your ratings and have a little fun.
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He won't get a nice 172 or PA-28 for that money, he'll get a crap nightmare. Best to stick to a basic 150/152 or such.
 
If you don't go the Henning route (and I agree you should) then find an instructor that can fly with you at least three or four times a week. Any less and you will spend time relearning the last lesson and eating up your funds. Also, find a school with a 152. They are the cheapest to operate and once you get your license you can do an hour to transition to a bigger plane.
 
There are lots of overlap areas between ratings, things you can do in one rating that helps the next, etc. that you need to map out.

For example. The more hood time you get during your PPL, the less you have to do during your IFR because that time counts. The more 50nm XC PIC you do during your PPL (i.e. your solo time where you land at an airport 50nm+), the less you have to worry about building during your IFR training or before your IFR training. So instead of doing your last ten hours of PPL doing pattern work 35nm away, do it 50+nm away and kill two birds with one stone. For the IFR, find someone with cheap simulator rates and do at least 10 hours in the simulator. I use an old ATC610 at my school. Yeah, it's a panel and a blank wall, but it works just as well to fly approaches, it's cheap, and it counts.

So on and so forth. Also, when you get to your commercial, you can do your Commercial, ME, and ME-I all at one time. There are accelerated schools that'll get it all done in a few weeks.

It's the time building between the IFR and commercial that you need to get somehow. I think the recommendation of buying a 152 is a good one in your case. Otherwise, it'll cost you a boatload to build that 100+ hours between the IFR and commercial.

Cost wise for the ratings, if you do them quickly and shop around, you can do them well under 25k.

I spent 7k for my PPL. I'm going to get my IFR done under 6k (including the DPE fee). There's an accelerated Commercial/ME-I program I found for 8k online I'll probably do when I'm there.

That's 21k. But keep in mind, you'd spend even less if you own your own C-150/152 for plane costs over the long haul, especially time building toward the CPL. The other thing you could do is share costs with another pilot looking to build time once you get to a place to start time building toward the CPL. One under the hood, one as safety pilot.
 
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Find a good school with lots of rental plane and then concentrate on getting your PPL and IR as quickly as possible. Drawing it out is where it starts to get less efficient. So since you don't have to work right now and have the cash, that is what I would do if I were you.
 
The thing is, for the most part you are looking at 1000 hrs+ before you get a decent flying job, 1500 if you are looking at airlines. It's that time building you have to think about. Mostly it's done as a CFI. Might as well own the plane and make the extra $20-30hr from the plane rental on top of instructor fees. If you're gonna do that, might as well save those same dollars (or more, maybe $100hr if all you can rent are $150hr) during your training.
 
Agreed w/ above. If you are going all-in for a career as a pilot, your best bet is to find a cheap IFR aircraft from the beginning and fly it through your Private and Instrument ratings. You can then get your COM ratings and/or ME ratings in something else, and then use the 152 to build time while instructing. Otherwise, you could sell the 152 after the instrument rating and recoup a large portion of your money to worth on the COM/ME stuff.
 
Henning said:
If you are going for the whole 9 yards, you're probably best off buy a $15k Cessna 152 with a basic IFR panel, and you can do all your training and time building, with the exception of Commercial and CFI in it. After you get your CFI, now you can train others in it and have them pay for your next 1200 hours to get your ATP.
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:yeahthat:

btw, WELCOME to POA!!!
 
SoonerAviator said:
Agreed w/ above. If you are going all-in for a career as a pilot, your best bet is to find a cheap IFR aircraft from the beginning and fly it through your Private and Instrument ratings. You can then get your COM ratings and/or ME ratings in something else, and then use the 152 to build time while instructing. Otherwise, you could sell the 152 after the instrument rating and recoup a large portion of your money to worth on the COM/ME stuff.
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Actually, if you do your Commercial and CFI rides in a multi first, the single engine stuff can all be done in the 152 as well.
 
To piggyback a question to this for clarification, if you buy a 152 and get your CFI, how do you use it to teach? Can you just put an ad out 'LEARN TO FLY' and teach people privately? :dunno:
 
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely have plenty to think about. Once I can get a better idea of the ongoing ownership cost in the area where I'd be keeping the plane I'll have a better outlook on everything.

I'm not looking to fly for the airlines...like ever:no:.... Thanks again for everything!
 
benhar77 said:
To piggyback a question to this for clarification, if you buy a 152 and get your CFI, how do you use it to teach? Can you just put an ad out 'LEARN TO FLY' and teach people privately? :dunno:
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Yes sir, and if there is a flight school you like and want to use their facilities, you can also work a leaseback type deal with them where you pay a certain amount of every hour for the facility use and it also opens up the plane to make you money even with other people's students.

If you are a CFI on an airport with a plane, just put up some fliers around area airports, run a Craigslist ad, provide good service... Eventually word of mouth will catch up and you'll be busy.
 
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benhar77 said:
To piggyback a question to this for clarification, if you buy a 152 and get your CFI, how do you use it to teach? Can you just put an ad out 'LEARN TO FLY' and teach people privately? :dunno:
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I'd imagine it would be a deal worked out with a local school no?:dunno:
 
I'm in basically the same boat. Got into aviation in High School but wasn't able to pursue my flying aspirations until my mid-30's. I have no delusions of grandeur of me becoming an airline pilot at this stage (wife & 2 kids).

7k-8k for a PPL seems pretty light especially in your part of the world. I started my training in the NYC area so I know rentals are brutal.

I'm midwest based now and the rental rates are much more reasonable but still expensive.

I think, if you have cash on-hand you would be well off looking for a low-cost IFR platform. Problem with 152s is there aren't many that I've seen with IFR panels. Pipers tend to run about 10% less than comparable Cessnas. If I were in the market for a basic IFR trainer on the cheap, I'd be looking at a Beech Musketeer/Sundowner. Solid flying, albiet slow, aircraft that are less popular compared to a C172/PA28 so prices are suppressed.

Your other option is to find a flying club rather than a FBO-based flight school. Flying clubs typically have much lower rates.

A third option after you get your PPL is to re-activate your CAP membership. Once you get signed off of your Form 5 you can fly CAP aircraft as much as you want as long as you're pursuing an advanced rating.
 
Henning said:
Yes sir, and if there is a flight school you like and want to use their facilities, you can also work a leaseback type deal with them where you pay a certain amount of every hour for the facility use and it also opens up the plane to make you money even with other people's students.

If you are a CFI on an airport with a plane, just put up some fliers around area airports, run a Craigslist ad, provide good service... Eventually word of mouth will catch up and you'll be busy.
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That and pay a bit more for insurance if you want to teach in your plane.
 
mkosmo said:
That and pay a bit more for insurance if you want to teach in your plane.
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It depends on how busy you are. Most standard business/personal policies will allow a CFI to have 5 students at a time on the normal premium. If you have more than 5 going at a time, you'll be able to afford the extra insurance cost.
 
Henning said:
It depends on how busy you are. Most standard business/personal policies will allow a CFI to have 5 students at a time on the normal premium.
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Interesting - didn't know that! Nowhere close to having my CFI yet, but I'll have to keep that in mind. Would that also cover students when solo? I'm sure you'd still want them to carry non-owners, though.
 
mkosmo said:
Interesting - didn't know that! Nowhere close to having my CFI yet, but I'll have to keep that in mind. Would that also cover students when solo? I'm sure you'd still want them to carry non-owners, though.
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It will cover you, yes, however unless you also have a 'no subrogation' clause in the policy, then the student having their own insurance is prudent measure, although over a $15,000 claim, it's unlikely to happen without some extenuating circumstances like taking the plane without permission. The subrogation process will cost more than the plane.
 
Get you ratings for the cheapest price. Find a 150 and independent CFI. Maybe try to barter with the CFI if you have a useful skill.
 
mtuomi said:
Buy this for 8k: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1968/Cessna/150/2096460.html

Find a freelance CFI, pay him $20/hr in cash.
40 hours + DPE fee and you have your private for around $1500. Sell plane after that (getting 8k again shouldn't be a problem) or rent it out for hour builders.
Or use it to build hours until something expensive breaks.
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If you add $4000-$5000 dollars to the deal you can get one with a much lower time engine, add a few more bucks and you can find one with 430w that can be turned into a money maker, rather than lowest loser.
 
Henning said:
If you add $4000-$5000 dollars to the deal you can get one with a much lower time engine, add a few more bucks and you can find one with 430w that can be turned into a money maker, rather than lowest loser.
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Yeah I was giving the bottom feeder recipe here...
Paying 20k for one w/ 430W though also increases your risk by alot...

The 20k 430W 150 would be useful for giving flight training. The 10k POS would be useful on hour building. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Thanks again for all the input. I looked into the cost of ownership and purchase. While the purchase is very doable, the risks with ownership are just a little too high for me right now. Anything serious goes wrong mechanically or otherwise and I may not be able to cover the cost dependent on what goes wrong. If there was a better way to mitigate that risk then I'd probably consider buying but at this time I doubt I'll go in that direction. A partnership could do that but I'm not sure thats the best way for me....

I still have a good amount of time before I begin so I will continue to try to find some more cash and maybe revisit the ownership route for PPL and time building. Will keep every option open for the time being. Thanks again for all the help and input.
 
Most 152/172 operations I know make around $30hr profit on the rental.
 
While I'm sure it could be argued, you could always finance 75% of the 152/172/etc aircraft and save the cash in-hand for those unforeseen repairs and hangar/instructor time/fuel instead of sinking the entire wad on an aircraft purchase. Sure, you'll have a monthly payment and a bit of interest, but your cash flow and the risk to your finances will be greatly reduced in terms of cash flow. After 2-3 years when you've built all of your time and got all of your ratings, sell it, and the only "cost" you've spent is 2-3 years of interest on a 10+yr note. Easy peasy.
 
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