How to become an A&P

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bigblockz8

Pre-takeoff checklist
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I was wondering how any A&P's reading this became A&P's. I want to go to a school but I don't have the money and want to use it as a personal skill so that is not very practical. I have worked on medium duty Isuzu diesels with my stepfather and have played around with my mom's car quite a bit. I have some mechanical sense so that isn't an issue.

How did you get your A&P? Did you find a FBO that had an apprenticeship or did you go to school? Military and then civilian cert? How much fun is it?

I love the feeling of having something broken, troubleshooting its cause, and then fixing it. I would like to use the skills to (safely) build (and maintain) my own aircraft and to have the rating as a fall back in case the airline dreams go bust.

Note: I know the requirements to obtain one but don't know the ebst way to go about getting one.
 
bigblockz8 said:
I was wondering how any A&P's reading this became A&P's. I want to go to a school but I don't have the money and want to use it as a personal skill so that is not very practical. I have worked on medium duty Isuzu diesels with my stepfather and have played around with my mom's car quite a bit. I have some mechanical sense so that isn't an issue.

How did you get your A&P? Did you find a FBO that had an apprenticeship or did you go to school? Military and then civilian cert? How much fun is it?

I love the feeling of having something broken, troubleshooting its cause, and then fixing it. I would like to use the skills to (safely) build (and maintain) my own aircraft and to have the rating as a fall back in case the airline dreams go bust.

Note: I know the requirements to obtain one but don't know the ebst way to go about getting one.
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I did mine via OJT with various A&P's and shops, plus I also used my previous military experience (Avionics Tech in Navy).

The best rating you can acquire, and probably the hardest to earn.

Find a shop that will let you work under them and keep records of your time worked and experience gained. After you put in your 30 months then go to the FSDO and get the authorization to take the 3 writtens (General, Airframe and Powerplant). After that either go to a A&P finish/prep course or schedule with a DME (Designated Maintenance Examiner).

Good Luck! :thumbsup:
 
I went to school full time for about 2 years, it was fun but really long and trying to work a full time job also it was tough. You can take on an app job and document you work and when you get enough hours documented then you can apply for the test. The FAR is FAR 65.71-65.80 if you are interested in reading the actual rules.
Go for it:wink2:
 
Went to community college for 2 years. Highly recommend. Enjoyed it immensely. Don't go to the commercial diploma mills that charge 10 times as much.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
I did mine via OJT with various A&P's and shops, plus I also used my previous military experience (Avionics Tech in Navy).

The best rating you can acquire, and probably the hardest to earn.

Find a shop that will let you work under them and keep records of your time worked and experience gained. After you put in your 30 months then go to the FSDO and get the authorization to take the 3 writtens (General, Airframe and Powerplant). After that either go to a A&P finish/prep course or schedule with a DME (Designated Maintenance Examiner).

Good Luck! :thumbsup:
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Thats exactly how I got my A&P. 30 months of work that was documented daily and signed off by an A&P. Got the FSDO's blessing and went through the prep school for two weeks and I was done.
 
Just checking assumptions here...

30 months of 8 X 5 work, or just 30 months of time overall with varying hours? I'm assuming the former.

Do shops really hire non-A&Ps to do this time, or is it typically unpaid? Do these folks work on aircraft under "supervision" ?

Is there any ethical issues when someone thinks they're paying for A&P rated personnel on their aircraft? Do shops usually tell aircraft owners of any non-A&P work done on their aircraft?

If not ethical questions, are there legal/liability issues? Do insurers have any say in it?

I'm just curious and thinking about how lawsuits usually go down later.

Thanks.
 
denverpilot said:
Just checking assumptions here...

30 months of 8 X 5 work, or just 30 months of time overall with varying hours? I'm assuming the former.
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From Order 8900.1

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=34EB500C9E377AF1862577290045480A

5-1135 EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. Section 65.77 requires the applicant to have documented practical experience in maintaining airframes and/or powerplants. At least 18 months of practical experience is required for the appropriate rating requested. For a certificate with both ratings, the requirement is for at least 30 months experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings. If the 30 months concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings has not been met, then calculate each rating separately using the 18-month requirement for each.

NOTE:
image002.gif
Applying for ratings separately will result in no less than 36 months total requirement for both ratings.
A. Practical Experience. The practical experience must provide the applicant with basic knowledge of and skills with the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment used in aircraft construction, alteration, maintenance, and inspection.

B. Evaluating Military Experience. With exception to the JSAMTCC A&P certification program experience gained from the military, work as an airframe or powerplant mechanic or work on an experimental amateur-built aircraft will receive evaluations on its own merits to determine whether it fulfills the experience requirements. When evaluating military experience, ASI and ASTs are not to accept MOS, AFSC, or NEC “carte blanche” as qualifications to accepting experience of § 65.77. Even though the MOS suggest authorization for either the airframe, powerplant, or both the A&P certificates, the inspector will only endorse FAA Form 8610-2, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, after ensuring, by a thorough interview and detailed review of records, that the person qualifies under § 65.77.

C. Expectations. There is no expectation that an applicant be highly proficient in overhauls, major repairs, or major alterations in the minimum 18 months experience.

D. Powerplant Tests. Powerplant tests will include questions and projects on propellers that the applicant must successfully complete regardless of his/her experience.

E. Part-Time Practical Experience. In evaluating documented part-time practical aviation mechanic experience, an equivalent of 18 months for each rating individually (or 30 months concurrent rating experience) based on a standard 40-hour workweek is acceptable. The months need not be consecutive. A standard workweek has 8 hours per day for 5 days per week, thus totaling 40 hours per week and approximately 160 hours per month.



denverpilot said:
Do shops really hire non-A&Ps to do this time, or is it typically unpaid? Do these folks work on aircraft under "supervision" ?
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Usually paid as trainees or assistants. And yes, they are under constant supervision.

denverpilot said:
Is there any ethical issues when someone thinks they're paying for A&P rated personnel on their aircraft? Do shops usually tell aircraft owners of any non-A&P work done on their aircraft?
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Most repair stations use non-A&P staff to perform different jobs. These individuals do work under supervision. The large CRS's that the airlines use have many non rated mechanics doing sheet metal, hydraulics, avionics, etc. These people are highly qualified but for various and personal reasons don't have A&P's since their work is covered under the repair station.

denverpilot said:
If not ethical questions, are there legal/liability issues? Do insurers have any say in it?

I'm just curious and thinking about how lawsuits usually go down later.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Insurers? Never seen that come into the equation. As long as qualified individuals are supervising and making the required documentation that meets the requirements of the regulations.

No different than an IA having an owner assist on an annual or an A&P supervising an owner doing repairs.
 
" Quote...the military, work as an airframe or powerplant mechanic or work on an experimental amateur-built aircraft will receive evaluations on its own merits to determine whether it fulfills the experience requirements. When evaluating military experience, ASI and ASTs are not to accept MOS, AFSC, or NEC “carte blanche” as qualifications to accepting experience of § 65.77. Even though the MOS suggest authorization for either the airframe, powerplant, or both the A&P certificates, the inspector will only endorse FAA Form 8610-2, Airman Certificate and/or Rating ...Unquote"


Hmmm.. Tell me more about the experimental amatuer built aircraft avenue. :dunno::dunno::yesnod:

Ben.
 
I went to a school near Grand Rapids MI. I looked at one of the cookie cutter schools in VA. Twice. It was close to home. It was way too expensive $35-45k, and I didn't think it did a good job teaching you anything other than how to pass the test. A lot of the part 147 schools (The A&P equivalent to a 141 school) are going to be about $30-45k.

Community colleges tend to be cheaper. Around the $10-15k mark typically. A couple of years ago, when I did some research for schools for some other people, I found a few around $10k. But one was in west Texas, Lubbock I think, and the other in S. Illinois. Don't remember the names of the schools. The FAA will have a list on their website of all Part 147 schools.

Apprenticeship can be the cheapest way to do it, and if you find the right place, you can actually get a paying job while getting the exp. needed for the license. As mentioned the apprenticeship requirements are 30 months for both the A&P or 18 months for either the A or the P (with another 18 for the other). If you have a regular job the FSDO will accept a letter from your employer stating that you have worked for X amount of time doing airframe work, powerplant work, or both. If you're not doing that, keeping track of hours and what you did in a logbook is a good idea.

I don't know about experience on an experimental if there's not an A&P there helping. Sounds like a case by case, and my guess is that you would only have enough experience for an Airframe license.

The school I went to is the School of Missionary Aviation Technology, (SMAT) in MI. Great school. About $16k when I went. It is a Christian school, but you don't have to be one to attend. IMO, it's one of the better schools. Class is 1 year long, so it's also one of the fastest. Unlike many of the other schools, SMAT's classes are 8hrs a day, which is why you get through class faster.

As for me, I got my A&P because I wanted to do some stuff that required an A&P as a job req. I've found I enjoy it far more than I thought I would. Yes, there are days that you just want to burn the plane or shoot the engineer that designed some particular thing, but then, who doesn't have frustrating things at work? I'd like to get another job doing part maintenance, part flying sometime again. Right now I'm working on Jet rangers.

Oh, the school costs I quoted above are from a about 2 years ago, so tack on a few dollars more.....

As for letting unlicensed people work on your aircraft, as has been mentioned, it's usually not a problem, but there are some exceptions. But here's the liability thing, if my signature is in the logbook, I'm the one responsible for the work. You are supposed to record the name of the person who did the work, if the A&P signing the work off didn't actually do it, but not many people actually do that. :nono:
 
if i ever do it it will probably be by working at a shop to put in my time.
 
I wanted to find a shop but the options where I am are limited. When I take in to account the distance, I only have one option for now. I asked and they weren't too keen on teaching a 16yr old. I'll wait it out a bit or wait until I catch a break with the FBO.
 
What do you want to do with it?

I thought about it quite a bit as a retirement gig. But in the end, I got a teaching job (starting full time next month) and bought an E-AB aircraft so I really don't need the A&P paperwork to the work.
 
I also went to community college for 2 years, best thing I ever did. Endup be an FAA Inspector several years later and now retired from the FAA. I will be receiving me DME in February 2012, starting a new career here in Japan.

I have lots of information on my web site for mechanics under the mechanic tool box tab, it will provide all the details required to obtain your A&P, what is required, and how to make it happen.
 
I worked under my father and mechanics in his shop through high school. I did qualify for the experience but I was to lazy for the test. Wanting to get out of town, I went to Spartan, it's a great school. My older brother got his A&P under my father's rating. You should be able to find a shop that would work with you.

Kevin
 
You guys work too hard for too little money.

There... I said it... my wallet was telling me not to, but I told it to shut up... it's the holidays. :)
 
Stache said:
I also went to community college for 2 years, best thing I ever did. Endup be an FAA Inspector several years later and now retired from the FAA. I will be receiving me DME in February 2012, starting a new career here in Japan.

I have lots of information on my web site for mechanics under the mechanic tool box tab, it will provide all the details required to obtain your A&P, what is required, and how to make it happen.
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Good for you, Stache, and best of luck with your new career!
 
I worked for a company that built fibreglass sailplanes and also for a guy who maintained gliders and power planes for a glider club as well as any other GA aircraft. We rebuilt some engines, did fabric and aluminum work and normal GA maintenence. I got signoffs from both guys and took the writtens. After passing the writtens I took the practical from a local designated examiner and viola, had an A&P. This was all done in the late 80's so things may have changed but I think it can still be done that way....


Frank
 
denverpilot said:
You guys work too hard for too little money.

There... I said it... my wallet was telling me not to, but I told it to shut up... it's the holidays. :)
Click to expand...

For me it was a personal achievement, and also I did it so I could own an airplane and do my own work. Later in life it came in handy when I owned my helicopter business. It has also benefited me in my present line of work as it gives me valuable insight into the Airworthiness side of the house.
 
There's another path to A&P. You can take a 3 week course and become a light sport repairman. Then while doing light sport repair, use that time to meet the experience requirements to qualify for the A&P test.
 
Got out of USMC in 77, had been a parachute rigger for ejection seats in A6 and A4 squadrons. Had no idea what I wanted to do. I really knew little about planes.

Went to East Coast Aerotech in Lexington MA (can't even find a url for this place any more) under old GI bill. Worked at Hanscom field O club at night, while I went. Graduated, got A&P, first job in GA was a disaster, Eastern Airlines hired me after that, Maybe in 79. Worked in Miiami for EAL for about 10 years after that.

USMC and ECAT were good moves for me after a really bad early start.
 
Student loan and went to a FAA certified school.
 
Old Geek said:
There's another path to A&P. You can take a 3 week course and become a light sport repairman. Then while doing light sport repair, use that time to meet the experience requirements to qualify for the A&P test.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea! I forgot about that option too. Thanks a lot for the reply! I'll definitely look into it.
 
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