How to be a safety pilot?

[mjburian]

I am a private pilot with just over 70 hours. I'm considering going for my IR possibly starting in the spring. In the meantime, I'm looking for the best (most interesting, most educational, cheapest, etc) way to build some PIC time, especially for cross country flights.

My question is, would being a safety pilot for an IR student fit this criteria? If so, what is involved? Is there any additional training I need to (or should) get? Or am I just a set of eyes to look out for traffic while the IR student is under the hood?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[stingray]

You about covered it. I would add that you should know the pilot you are flying with. As he will be in-control of the plane. You should also be comfortable flying the plane just in case.

Generally but not always, it is easy to find a pilot to split time with. 1 hr each sorta thing. If you want CC time I would find a IFR pilot and fly some acctual IFR CC (Does not have to be IMC). Puts you way ahead of the game as far as ATC goes.

Dan

 

[mjburian]

You about covered it. I would add that you should know the pilot you are flying with. As he will be in-control of the plane. You should also be comfortable flying the plane just in case.

Generally but not always, it is easy to find a pilot to split time with. 1 hr each sorta thing. If you want CC time I would find a IFR pilot and fly some acctual IFR CC (Does not have to be IMC). Puts you way ahead of the game as far as ATC goes.

Dan

There is at least one pilot that I know fairly well (but have never flown with) that has asked if I would be a safety pilot for him. Also, Stan is flying out of KUES which isn't far from me. Not sure if he needs it, but I have considered offering anyway.

Neither of these pilots is currently IFR rated, so at least to start, it would just be the safety pilot (no flying actual IFR). But, is there any additional training/practice I should do before safety piloting for an IR student (other than being comfortable flying the plane we're in)?

 

[stingray]

There is at least one pilot that I know fairly well (but have never flown with) that has asked if I would be a safety pilot for him. Also, Stan is flying out of KUES which isn't far from me. Not sure if he needs it, but I have considered offering anyway.

Neither of these pilots is currently IFR rated, so at least to start, it would just be the safety pilot (no flying actual IFR). But, is there any additional training/practice I should do before safety piloting for an IR student (other than being comfortable flying the plane we're in)?

All you are there for is to look out for planes and terrain. The pilot under the hood cannot do this because well he is under a hood. Flying in VFR you are required to see and avoid. That is where you come in.

Dan

 

[ntbjounin]

Well, as far as building time goes, yea safety pilots can log PIC time as they are THE PIC, but the guy under the hood is just the sole operator of controls at the time. as soon as he takes off the hood, (for landing or taxi) whoever's flying is PIC. you cant just log PIC while he taxis.

Safety pilot w/ an IR pilot while flying IFR would be a great leap ahead as far as radio chatter goes!

But basically yes, you're just eyes out the window to make sure you dont fly into other traffic, or towers, OR MOUNTAINS, or clouds if you're VFR.

 

[mjburian]

Well, as far as building time goes, yea safety pilots can log PIC time as they are THE PIC, but the guy under the hood is just the sole operator of controls at the time. as soon as he takes off the hood, (for landing or taxi) whoever's flying is PIC. you cant just log PIC while he taxis.

Safety pilot w/ an IR pilot while flying IFR would be a great leap ahead as far as radio chatter goes!

But basically yes, you're just eyes out the window to make sure you dont fly into other traffic, or towers, OR MOUNTAINS, or clouds if you're VFR.

Right. So, I will log all time while the other pilot is under the hood as PIC. This will not be 100% of the flying time, but it probably (I'm assuming) would be 75% or more right?

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is there any reason I *shouldn't* do this? Seems like it would be attractive to an IR student (splitting costs, not paying for the "eyes", etc)... and it seems like a good way for me to both be introduced to IFR and get some cheap PIC time logged.

 

[KennyFlys]

Depending on how far you plan to take flying, logging PIC as a safety pilot isn't the best idea. Some inspectors and DPEs may have a different expectation as well.

A while back, ATP was producing students who had well over a hundred hours of PIC also logged in total time... as a safety pilot in multi-engine aircraft. When these pilots applied to ASA, their log books were audited and most lost most or all of that time as far as ASA was concerned. If their total and multi time was well under what ASA required, it was the pilot's tough luck.

Throwing in a few hours is fine but I wouldn't make a bunch of safety pilot time logged just to meet total time and cross country time requirements.

 

[mjburian]

Depending on how far you plan to take flying, logging PIC as a safety pilot isn't the best idea. Some inspectors and DPEs may have a different expectation as well.

A while back, ATP was producing students who had well over a hundred hours of PIC also logged in total time... as a safety pilot in multi-engine aircraft. When these pilots applied to ASA, their log books were audited and most lost most or all of that time as far as ASA was concerned. If their total and multi time was well under what ASA required, it was the pilot's tough luck.

Throwing in a few hours is fine but I wouldn't make a bunch of safety pilot time logged just to meet total time and cross country time requirements.

For right now, getting instrument rated is the only thing I'm considering. I've heard that getting the CPL after that isn't too much more work, so I suppose I would consider that... but I have no plans of an ATP rating. I'm 30 years old and just fly for fun. The IR makes sense (to me, at least) so I can take longer trips without being worried about what happens if ceilings come down or visibility becomes limited. Not to mention, anything I can add to the (very) short time a typical inadvertent VFR pilot into IMC has is fine by me.

 

[KennyFlys]

For right now, getting instrument rated is the only thing I'm considering. I've heard that getting the CPL after that isn't too much more work, so I suppose I would consider that... but I have no plans of an ATP rating. I'm 30 years old and just fly for fun. The IR makes sense (to me, at least) so I can take longer trips without being worried about what happens if ceilings come down or visibility becomes limited. Not to mention, anything I can add to the (very) short time a typical inadvertent VFR pilot into IMC has is fine by me.

What I suspect you're trying to accomplish is acquire the fifty hours of cross country time to qualify for the instrument rating. I just want to caution you on building XC time as a safety pilot. Some DPEs may reject that time if it proves to be a substantial portion of that logged.

You would do better to be in the left seat for some of that time and let the other person be a safety pilot during a XC under the hood. But, do that only if you've already obtained some basic instrument instruction well beyond what you received as a private pilot.

I would recommend sharing this among a few different pilots, not just one other or you both would be at risk of rejection of time logged if seeking an instrument rating.

 

[dparter]

At this stage -- not being an IR student yet -- being a safety pilot for someone can be interesting and you will see a little bit of what flying IFR is about. But I wouldn't use being a safety pilot for building time (and since your safety pilot time won't count as XC time, which is what you need, it isn't really a big win anyway).

What I would do instead is fly the VFR cross country flights and build your flying experience.

Depending on your situation, you can either go on a bunch of XC flights with friends to build you XC time, or split XC time with another pilot.

Going on reasonable length XC flights with friends to build XC time and experience, and expose them to flying can be a lot of fun.

You can split XC time with a fellow pilot if there is someone else who also needs XC time (or just wants to fly) but isn't looking for instrument time. Each of you fly a VFR XC leg, split the costs. You won't get it done any faster, but you'll have someone to talk to during your flights, and you can work the radios while the other pilot flies, and vice-versa. You might also take longer trips that non-pilot friends may not want to do. Taking a long multi-state VFR cross country (not as long as Kent's trip!) can be a great experience, and is much better with another pilot along.

You can learn some things being a safety pilot, but actually flying, and getting as smooth as possible at controlling the plane, is going to be much better preparation for the IR training.

Hope that makes sense...

--david

 

[Palmpilot]

Right. So, I will log all time while the other pilot is under the hood as PIC.

You can only do this if you are legally qualified to be PIC of the aircraft being used, and if the pilot under the hood agrees to let you act as PIC. That agreement needs to take place before the flight. Otherwise you could only log his hood time as second in command (SIC).

 

[Ted]

I'm going to basically agree with Kenny on this. Being a safety pilot as an IR student is a great way to build familiarity with the radio chatter, get an idea of what's going on (especially if the person you're safety piloting for explains what he/she is doing). So, from that perspective, I'd recommend it. During the first month or so I probably spent about 5 hours as safety pilot for a friend of mine as he was finishing up his IR. It was neat to follow along, and I certainly benefitted from watching him do approaches, etc... oh, and make mistakes.

I would highly caution you with using safety piloting as a means to build time. Not only is it possible that it will get rejected, you aren't getting that same learning experience about making a trip by watching someone else doing it that you are if you're doing it yourself.

Another thing I'd caution: as I am learning as a new IR pilot, being proficient in instrument flight is about a lot more than meeting your currency requirements. I would tend to believe that the person with an instrument rating who only occasionally uses it is likely to be more dangerous than the VFR pilot who knows instrumeny flight is a non-option. I'd encourage you to get the rating, but then you either need to keep up with it enough to be proficient, or else tell yourself that you're just not going to bother using it without a CFII in the plane in actuals. Also, make sure that your first time in actuals isn't after you get your rating and you're flying by yourself. Make your CFII take you up in actuals. If he's not comfortable with that, find a new CFII.

In terms of what people are looking for in a safety pilot - the main thing is just be the eyes to look out for things - ground, airplanes, etc. This is especially true when you're in busy airspace and likely to have other planes around. Be prepared to take the controls (and make sure the guy under the hood understands "my plane"), but I personally try to make sure to give the pilot enough notice to give vectors.

For approaches, it does help to follow along. This is both for your own learning, but also to know where he's supposed to be at. For example, I was safety piloting for a friend who was doing a VOR approach before I knew how to read approach plates. Well, at some point the trees started to get a little closer than I thought they should, so I asked him what altitude he was supposed to be descending to (not knowing). Turned out he was misreading the altimeter by 1000 ft. Oops. It would have been helpful to know how to tell that.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I frequently fly safety pilot for Hubby. He is instrument rated and I'm not. Here is what we do.

a) He briefs the approach plates with me before going under the hood. That way I know what to expect - turns and descents. If he is doing multiple approaches, he briefs each approach out loud with me while still under the hood.

b) I note the Hobbs time when he goes under the hood and when he comes back.

c) He logs total time as PIC, hood time as simulated instrument. I log hood time as SIC since I am a required crew member. That way we both get to log the time.

d) While under the hood, I watch for traffic and keep the flight safe. If an aircraft is seen, I pretend to be ATC and give a traffic alert such as, "Aircraft approaching at your 2 o'clock 2 miles same altitude." If we agree ahead of time, I'll be ATC and give him vectors or deviations, too.

e) If the final approach is too far left or right and I'm uncomfortable about the altitude, I tell him to take off the foggles.

f) I am prepared to take control of the plane, if necessary, with the statement, "My plane" for positive exchange of controls. He responds with "Your plane."

 

[vontresc]

Another dumb question. Does the safety pilot have to have a current BFR? I am assuming yes, but would like to know for sure.

 

[ntbjounin]

At this stage -- not being an IR student yet -- being a safety pilot for someone can be interesting and you will see a little bit of what flying IFR is about. But I wouldn't use being a safety pilot for building time (and since your safety pilot time won't count as XC time, which is what you need, it isn't really a big win anyway).

What I would do instead is fly the VFR cross country flights and build your flying experience.

I'm going to have to disagree with david here. First off, your Safety pilot time can be logged as XC assuming it's an XC flight. Certainly it's not as beneficial to your learning process as if you were the one working the controls, but never the less.

I will disagree with you on the 2nd part as well. Yes you should stay VFR on your XCs, but you should find another pilot who wants to work on instrument work with you. You can help him navigate while playing safety pilot. Treating each flight (VFR included) like an IFR flight will make you VERY prepared for Instrument navigation when the real time comes.

I'll agree with Peggy that having the safety pilot act as ATC giving vectors etc is a great idea. However, I dont know what good traffic advisories do b/c the person cant look up. You might mention "ok i see some traffic that may be an issue, so be prepared to give me control of the airplane", but really if it MAY be an issue, just give them vectors around it.

I'll go safety pilot for you, but I don't think that'd be very convenient. Want to pick me up at ADS? lol

 

[dmccormack]

I'm not sure on this one...

While I'm all for new Private Pilots continuing on for the IR, it seems there's a lot of learning that should happen after the PP checkride that can only happen as PIC, independent of the training environment.

You have to spend some time alone, in flight, in various situations to become comfortable and confident. That doesn't happen with the bail out switch sitting right next to you.

All pilots need time in the airplane getting completely comfortable with the sensations of flight, the performance of the airplane, tracking radials VFR, getting the overall picture.

Perhaps some can do that immediately after the PP checkride, but I think there's some wisdom to the 50 hour XC requirement.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Another dumb question. Does the safety pilot have to have a current BFR? I am assuming yes, but would like to know for sure.

Yes. Safety pilot must have the same qualifications as if he is PIC for the flight.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I'll agree with Peggy that having the safety pilot act as ATC giving vectors etc is a great idea. However, I dont know what good traffic advisories do b/c the person cant look up. You might mention "ok i see some traffic that may be an issue, so be prepared to give me control of the airplane", but really if it MAY be an issue, just give them vectors around it.

Good point. I've been giving him VFR advisories. Next time, I'll do it right.

 

[JimNtexas]

You can only do this if you are legally qualified to be PIC of the aircraft being used, and if the pilot under the hood agrees to let you act as PIC. That agreement needs to take place before the flight. Otherwise you could only log his hood time as second in command (SIC).

+1!!!!!!!!

The FAA will allow both pilots to log PIC if the FAR 1 PIC is the safety pilot and the hooded pilot is the 'sole manipulator of the controls'. This is because the FAA has always had an explicit written policy that there is a difference between logging PIC (FAR 61) and really being the PIC as defined in FAR 1.

And as another poster has mentioned, most commercial flying operations don't accept this kind of logging for their applications.

I would not log safety pilot time, but by all means get some. It's a great low pressure way to get first hand experience. Most IFR rated private pilots are always on the lookout for a safety pilot.

In my opinion gained from reading FAA Chief Counsel letters on this subject a safety pilot needs a current medical and a private pilot rating. The safety pilot does not need endorsements (high performance, tailwheel, complex) but would need a type rating if the airplane requires one (unlikely).

 

[AuntPeggy]

I'm not sure on this one...

While I'm all for new Private Pilots continuing on for the IR, it seems there's a lot of learning that should happen after the PP checkride that can only happen as PIC, independent of the training environment.

You have to spend some time alone, in flight, in various situations to become comfortable and confident. That doesn't happen with the bail out switch sitting right next to you.

All pilots need time in the airplane getting completely comfortable with the sensations of flight, the performance of the airplane, tracking radials VFR, getting the overall picture.

Perhaps some can do that immediately after the PP checkride, but I think there's some wisdom to the 50 hour XC requirement.

Yeah. The alone time is the best.

 

[TMetzinger]

In my opinion gained from reading FAA Chief Counsel letters on this subject a safety pilot needs a current medical and a private pilot rating. The safety pilot does not need endorsements (high performance, tailwheel, complex) but would need a type rating if the airplane requires one (unlikely).

You're correct if the safety pilot is acting as SIC. If acting as PIC, the safety pilot needs to be fully qualified, including endorsements.

I typically log the safety pilot time as SIC. Colgan had no problem with it when a recruiter looked at the logs - but it's less than .1 percent of my time so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

 

[poadeleted20]

A few points...

Even if the aircraft requires a type rating, an SIC safety pilot does not require it. 14 CFR 91.109(b)(1) says only category/class is required. The type rating would be required only if the safety pilot is also acting as PIC.

Flight Standards is on record as saying you can't log XC time when acting as an SIC safety pilot when an SIC is not otherwise required, but they haven't said you can't log it if you're acting as PIC. Also, there is no question that the FAA accepts PIC time logged when acting as PIC and safety pilot while another pilot flies under the hood. However, airlines and other pilot employers are free to decide for themselves what they will count for employment purposes.

As for who's the PIC, well, that's up to the two pilots involved to decide -- preferably before flight. The donning or doffing of the hood does not change who's PIC, but it does change the rules on who can log what. In all cases, assuming the pilot flying is "rated," the pilot flying logs all the time as PIC time. The only question is what the safety pilot logs. The safety pilot can only log the time that the pilot flying is under the hood, and logs it as PIC time if acting as PIC, but SIC time if not acting as PIC.

If the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, no flight review or landing currency is required -- those are only PIC requirements. See 61.56 and 61.57 for the official words.

 

[RMCN172RG]

FWIW I did my IR training part 141 versus 61 this trades the 50 hour XC requirement and associated costs for actual time flying IFR under the hood towards getting the IFR rating.

I started the IR training at 78.5 hours and took the check ride at 122 or 43 hours later. There was also sim time during that period towards the IR rating as well.

 

[TMetzinger]

A few points...

Flight Standards is on record as saying you can't log XC time when acting as an SIC safety pilot when an SIC is not otherwise required, but they haven't said you can't log it if you're acting as PIC.

Don't ask the question! They should be able to apply the same logic to deny it to acting PICs, if they've got a rationale for denying it to acting SICs.

When I'm safety pilot, I've only logged flight time and SIC time - but I don't think we ever did any X/C during those instances.

 

[ntbjounin]

You have to spend some time alone, in flight, in various situations to become comfortable and confident. That doesn't happen with the bail out switch sitting right next to you.

All pilots need time in the airplane getting completely comfortable with the sensations of flight, the performance of the airplane, tracking radials VFR, getting the overall picture.

Perhaps some can do that immediately after the PP checkride, but I think there's some wisdom to the 50 hour XC requirement.

OH i Definitely agree here! you cant REALLY become better with your bailout button next to you as another pilot.

I think solo time is good, but it sure can get expensive. Get friends to go with you and pay their pro rata share (if they will). The learning comes when you're the only pilot in the plane. If something goes wrong, everyone's lives are in your hands, so maybe some solo time would be good before that if you're not confident enough to handle that.

And i seriously doubt anyone can REALLY be ready after their PP checkride. The teaspoon of stuff I knew at my PP checkride (at 41 hrs) is dwarfed by the GREAT LAKE worth i've learned over the next 300 hours of flying. And I know I'm still no where near knowing all of the OCEAN of info that is still out there!

 

[poadeleted20]

Get friends to go with you and pay their pro rata share (if they will).

Y'all be careful how you do that -- offering to take them along if they'll split the cost is an offer of air transportation for hire, and that's a violation of 61.113(a) among other rules. Make sure you and your passengers have a "common purpose" for the trip other than going for an airplane ride.

 

[ntbjounin]

Y'all be careful how you do that -- offering to take them along if they'll split the cost is an offer of air transportation for hire, and that's a violation of 61.113(a) among other rules. Make sure you and your passengers have a "common purpose" for the trip other than going for an airplane ride.

Well, I'll have to disagree again.
61.113(c) says
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

So basically, if a pilot wants to take 3 friends along, the he need only pay 1/4th of the flight costs. It doesn't say how the 3 pax have to divide up the 3/4ths of the costs.

 

[TMetzinger]

Ron's right - no problem with sharing cost as long as there's a common purpose for the trip. You soliciting passengers for the trip doesn't imply a common purpose.

 

[dmccormack]

Ron's right - no problem with sharing cost as long as there's a common purpose for the trip. You soliciting passengers for the trip doesn't imply a common purpose.

If the passengers are acquaintances from other than the airport, then it shouldn't be too tough to have a "common purpose."

 

[poadeleted20]

Well, I'll have to disagree again.
61.113(c) says
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

So basically, if a pilot wants to take 3 friends along, the he need only pay 1/4th of the flight costs. It doesn't say how the 3 pax have to divide up the 3/4ths of the costs.

All correct, but my point was the issue of an offer for air transportation, not how the costs were shared. If you and your three friends all want to go somewhere (a "common purpose" such as going to a football game in the next state), it's OK for them to to fly with you and for you to collect up to 3/4 of the direct cost of the flight from them. However, it's not OK for you to go to your friends and say, "Hey, how'd you like to go flying with me -- if you pay your share of the cost."

 

[mjburian]

All correct, but my point was the issue of an offer for air transportation, not how the costs were shared. If you and your three friends all want to go somewhere (a "common purpose" such as going to a football game in the next state), it's OK for them to to fly with you and for you to collect up to 3/4 of the direct cost of the flight from them. However, it's not OK for you to go to your friends and say, "Hey, how'd you like to go flying with me -- if you pay your share of the cost."

What if you're just doing some sightseeing? I haven't done it yet, but what if I have a friend that wants to go for an airplane ride and is willing to pay half of the expenses to go fly over his house? Don't we then have a common purpose? I want to go flying and he wants to fly over his house. Does this change if we decide to fly somewhere for lunch?

Did I just hijack my own thread?

 

[ntbjounin]

ok i hear ya guys. i just hadnt really thought about hanging out at the airport soliciting for PAX....

 

[dmccormack]

All correct, but my point was the issue of an offer for air transportation, not how the costs were shared. If you and your three friends all want to go somewhere (a "common purpose" such as going to a football game in the next state), it's OK for them to to fly with you and for you to collect up to 3/4 of the direct cost of the flight from them. However, it's not OK for you to go to your friends and say, "Hey, how'd you like to go flying with me -- if you pay your share of the cost."

"...may not pay less than..."

If a pilot wants to take friends up and foot the entire cost, that's his/her own business.

The rule is there to avoid unregulated air taxi service.

 

[tlglenn]

Don't ask the question! They should be able to apply the same logic to deny it to acting PICs, if they've got a rationale for denying it to acting SICs.

When I'm safety pilot, I've only logged flight time and SIC time - but I don't think we ever did any X/C during those instances.

Alas, I've already asked the question. I got a letter stating I should expect a response by March 31st (five months ago). I'm still waiting.

Btw, I received a response from my regional counsel saying that the pilot who performs the landing gets to claim x-c time.

 

[poadeleted20]

What if you're just doing some sightseeing? I haven't done it yet, but what if I have a friend that wants to go for an airplane ride and is willing to pay half of the expenses to go fly over his house? Don't we then have a common purpose?

No,

because I want to go flying and he wants to fly over his house.

...so you have two different purposes for the flight

Does this change if we decide to fly somewhere for lunch?

Yes -- now you have a common purpose -- lunch. And if you happen to fly over his house on the way home, it's no big deal.

Keep in mind on these shared expense/common purpose questions that the FAA ain't out there asking every group of people walking out to a plane whether they're sharing expenses or what their common purpose is if they are. Unless you do something really silly, like creating the appearance of dealing with charter passengers in front of an Inspector (or a charter operator who thinks you're stealing business), they act only on complaints. So unless your pals complain to the FAA about some aspect of the flight (or there's an accident and the FAA starts asking questions), you're not going to get busted on this as long as you don't stir things up at the airport.

 

[stingray]

I'm not sure on this one...

While I'm all for new Private Pilots continuing on for the IR, it seems there's a lot of learning that should happen after the PP checkride that can only happen as PIC, independent of the training environment.

You have to spend some time alone, in flight, in various situations to become comfortable and confident. That doesn't happen with the bail out switch sitting right next to you.

All pilots need time in the airplane getting completely comfortable with the sensations of flight, the performance of the airplane, tracking radials VFR, getting the overall picture.

Perhaps some can do that immediately after the PP checkride, but I think there's some wisdom to the 50 hour XC requirement.

I think that the poster wants to know if it will hurt him to go along. It won't. Will it help him yes, Will it take the place of actual flight time alone or other wise, No. It will not hurt and will help get comfortable in the plane (bumps and other abnormalities). It will not take the place of actual time though. I do not know of any time in a plane that is not helpful.

Dan

 

[dparter]

I'm going to have to disagree with david here. First off, your Safety pilot time can be logged as XC assuming it's an XC flight. Certainly it's not as beneficial to your learning process as if you were the one working the controls, but never the less.

I recall from other safety pilot discussions a distinction that since the safety pilot is no longer a required crew member when the hood is off (takeoff and landing) the flight doesn't count as an XC for the safety pilot (no point of landing). But Ron's recent post says that has never been stated by flight standards, so maybe that was just forum arguments.

I will disagree with you on the 2nd part as well. Yes you should stay VFR on your XCs, but you should find another pilot who wants to work on instrument work with you. You can help him navigate while playing safety pilot. Treating each flight (VFR included) like an IFR flight will make you VERY prepared for Instrument navigation when the real time comes.

Ah, but the OP is not yet in his instrument training, and his primary purpose seems to be to get the 50 hrs of XC for his IR. My advice was to fly those pre-IR training XC hours, and use the time to get really proficient and comfortable with the plane, and not worry about the IFR environment until he starts his training.

--david

 

[stingray]

I recall from other safety pilot discussions a distinction that since the safety pilot is no longer a required crew member when the hood is off (takeoff and landing) the flight doesn't count as an XC for the safety pilot (no point of landing). But Ron's recent post says that has never been stated by flight standards, so maybe that was just forum arguments.



Ah, but the OP is not yet in his instrument training, and his primary purpose seems to be to get the 50 hrs of XC for his IR. My advice was to fly those pre-IR training XC hours, and use the time to get really proficient and comfortable with the plane, and not worry about the IFR environment until he starts his training.

--david

On a CC are you getting comfortable with the plane or with ATC? In my opinion for CC you need to get more acquainted with your radio work, like FSS, and Approach. Get more used to airspace restrictions, MOA's and TFR's. Much more weather work and planning. All of which you get with IFR training or actual. listening to someone else do radio work find the right freq. and such are all good things to understand as a new pilot. You get very little of this in training especially if your CFI just went to a training area for most of your lessons.

On the other hand if the pilot is just shooting approaches at the home field. It is not worth that much.

Dan

 

[ntbjounin]

Ah, but the OP is not yet in his instrument training, and his primary purpose seems to be to get the 50 hrs of XC for his IR. My advice was to fly those pre-IR training XC hours, and use the time to get really proficient and comfortable with the plane, and not worry about the IFR environment until he starts his training.

--david

fair point. in this case, safety pilot wont benefit your flying skill much, but it's still legal to log it. I'm sorry was that the question? I seem to be involved in way to many "is this loggable?" discussions! haha

 

[colohan]

...Also, make sure that your first time in actuals isn't after you get your rating and you're flying by yourself. Make your CFII take you up in actuals. If he's not comfortable with that, find a new CFII...

I'm currently an IFR student. Most of my training has been at night, since it is cheaper to rent planes then and it agrees with my schedule. I have to admit that flying under the hood is boring, since half of the thrill of flying for me is the beautiful views you get outside.

I fly in the SF Bay area of California, and every night the fog rolls in over Monterey Bay -- so you can go fly in actual quite often. The coolest training flight I have had so far was going in on the Monterey Bay ILS at night when the cloud cover was just at the minimums. Getting down to minimums and seeing the runway lights break out of the fog right where they should be is the coolest thing ever.

That same evening we found that the weather was below minimums at Watsonville. Keeping the plane flying at a constant altitude as you get closer to the airport on the VOR approach while outside the window you see nothing but fog is exciting in a very different (scary) way.

Chris