How Should Avionics be Connected for IFR Flight

KingAir1922

KingAir1922

Filing Flight Plan
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KingAir1922
I’m very new to the GA world. So new, in fact, that I haven’t actually begun flight training yet. My goal is to (hopefully) save a little on training, but mostly I want higher-quality logbook hours with more diverse training experiences. So, I’m hoping to buy my own plane. I already understand the increased risk and responsibility that goes with that—believe me, I’ve been studying and researching my aft end off. I want a plane that can get me at least through IFR training, but I don’t know exactly what to look for in a plane.

My hope is to start in the spring or early summer. I know for sure I want a plane that it ADS-B equipped. I know I want at least a WAAS capable GPS. But beyond that, I don’t really understand how the avionics are supposed to be connected to one-another to make the plane instrument certified. I know the radios are key to it, but how will I know if the GPS is actually connected in such a way that it is FAA approved for IFR and not just for general reference? What about the HSI, GSI, and other instruments?

I’d like to find a plane with a couple of G5s, but planes equipped with those are getting a little out of my price range, so more realistically I’m looking at steam gauges with at least a Garmin 430W in the panel. If anyone could break down how the navigation equipment is all supposed to be connected so I can be sure I’m finding the airplane I need, I would be most appreciative.
 
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There should be a nav indicator (CDI with Glideslope or HSI with Glideslope) connected to the 430W. That’s all that is required for navigation. You will require a functioning 6-pack as well. Vertical speed is not required, but recommended. You will need an Attitude indicator, DG, altimeter, airspeed indicator and turn coordinator. Those are all you need.
 
Jesse Saint said:
ou will require a functioning 6-pack as well. Vertical speed is not required, but recommended. You will need an Attitude indicator, DG, altimeter, airspeed indicator and turn coordinator. Those are all you need.
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So 5-pack?
 
Start at the beginning and learn to fly before jumping into ownership, or even trying to figure out what to buy. As you go thru training, you'll learn what equipment you'll need and what is "really nice to have" which usually translates into $$$. The flight instructor will teach you what everything does and what it's for, and will answer many of the questions you have here. The advantage of lessons is you get to understand the function of each in a working environment instead of people throwing acronyms and such at you in a newsgroup. You have a one-to-one environment with the instructor to see how each works and how they work together.

If you haven't already, go to the FAA website on manuals at

and download the following:

Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM)
Aeronautical Chart User's Guide
Airplane Flying Handbook
FAA Aviation Weather Handbook
Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (PHAK)
Weight and Balance Handbook

Chp 2 and Chp 8 of the PHAK are where you'll learn what you need for navigation and communication.
 
Jesse Saint said:
There should be a nav indicator (CDI with Glideslope or HSI with Glideslope) connected to the 430W. That’s all that is required for navigation. You will require a functioning 6-pack as well. Vertical speed is not required, but recommended. You will need an Attitude indicator, DG, altimeter, airspeed indicator and turn coordinator. Those are all you need.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression the radio stack was a key component in IFR certificated aircraft. Someone explained it to me briefly, but I didn't quite understand how it all worked together at the time. Do any of the navigation instruments need to be connected to the radios?
 
As you can probably tell, you're asking question(s) that have many different answers. I agree with all the above advice. If a qualified pilot or instructor were to explain it to you face to face in an airplane, it would make sense to you. To explain the huge number of possibilities to your questions on an internet forum will just create chaos and confusion for you.

As an example. The answer to your question above is...we need more information. There are multiple indicators and multiple radios available and in some installations you can choose which receiver inputs to your indicator and some are tied to only one nav receiver. Many choices, but the best answer is.....probably yes. But I don't think that really helps you.

@murphey has a great answer (post #5)
 
You will see as this thread goes along, the "required" equipment becomes very subjective. The FAR, 91.205, says you need a navigation source suitable for the route to be flown and 2-way radio communication. Everything else is dealing with lightning and the instruments. So, at the very basic 1 com radio and 1 nav radio are required. Recommended is different. I would want 2 coms and a GPS; however, some would stand on the table demanding a nav radio as well. Some say autopilot is required, others not so much.

Here is FAR91.205, paragraphs b, c, and d are about equipping aircraft for various types of flight.
 
You will need a com radio and Mode C transponder, and should have ADS-B Out in many places. I thought that should go without saying. Any plane you will fly IFR should have those already, except maybe the ADS-B.
 
The only “connecting” is:

The altimeter is connected to the transponder.

The GPS provides data to the ADSB out, and to a instrument you reference visually, usually a course deviation indicator.

If you have a navigation radio, it is connected to the audio panel so you can identify stations you tune. The audio panel also receives input from the communications radio. The audio panel has two way connections to headphones (with microphones).

So, as you can see, not a ton of “interconnecting”. I understand the need for knowing this, even though it’s not necessary yet. Read up on systems, even a super basic flight simulator will help.
 
murphey said:
Start at the beginning and learn to fly before jumping into ownership, or even trying to figure out what to buy. As you go thru training, you'll learn what equipment you'll need and what is "really nice to have" which usually translates into $$$. The flight instructor will teach you what everything does and what it's for, and will answer many of the questions you have here. The advantage of lessons is you get to understand the function of each in a working environment instead of people throwing acronyms and such at you in a newsgroup. You have a one-to-one environment with the instructor to see how each works and how they work together.

If you haven't already, go to the FAA website on manuals at

and download the following:

Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM)
Aeronautical Chart User's Guide
Airplane Flying Handbook
FAA Aviation Weather Handbook
Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (PHAK)
Weight and Balance Handbook

Chp 2 and Chp 8 of the PHAK are where you'll learn what you need for navigation and communication.
Click to expand...
I hear you, and I don't take your advice lightly. I've been studying the PHAK and have all the other materials you listed, and many more. Been studying and researching since I made the decision to commit to becoming a pilot almost seven months ago. I understand buying an airplane without having first received proper hands-on training is a risky venture, but I’ve got some extenuating circumstances in my family and job situation where I need an airplane on hand when I need it, instead of having to rely on the school’s rental to be available. I'm also under a fairly hard time constraint, so I need to be able to complete training at a quicker pace than I would be able to renting the school’s plane.

That said, I’m doing everything in my power to educate myself before even shopping for a plane. I understand the functions of the six pack, and I’m learning more about the various certificates, registrations, bill of sale, insurance, maintenance and inspection procedures, etc., all the time.

While I am new to real life flying, I have been “playing” flight simulators for the better part of 20 years and have a good handle on the principles of flight. It’s more the inner workings of airplanes I’m digging into now.

Safe operation, and the knowledge and wisdom to enable that, is my first and foremost priority. This is certainly not something I'm going into without an enormous ammount of forethought and consideration.
 
For my purposes, I'm strongly considering getting an aircraft equipped with the typical six pack, an HSI and CDI, a Garmin 430W or better GPS, and of course an ADS-B Out (Out/In, if I can find a plane with one equipped). Everything else, like autopilot, or G5s, are creature comforts that I would take if I can get them in my price range, but I'm not counting on them.
 
Think OP might be referring to a Nav radio (ILS, VOR) being connected to something like HSI/CDI.

I'd suggest taking a few hours of lessons before doing any plane shopping. The difference between seeing how stuff works vs just reading about it is pretty dramatic. I ended up buying a plane before finishing PP, but it was after I soloed in a 172. Got well more than the minimum for IFR (G500, GTN650), but very glad I did. My plane budget initially was about 25% of what I ended up spending. Initial searches of for sale sites like Trade a Plane had me looking at what I now know to be pretty junky planes. As an aside, I doubt I saved any money by buying vs renting. The big advantage to me was being fully trained in the plane I was going to fly when I got my ticket. Same was true for IFR rating. Really helped to be doing all the procedures using the instruments i would use going forward. Good example would be the difference in workflow between GTN and GNS GPS devices. Same company (Garmin) but very different ways to accomplish the tasks.
 
At least get a few lessons before buying something because you might have motion sickness or anxiety issues or you hate ear pain from altitude changes… or something else. Unless you are inside a simulator which actually moves you are unlikely to have any idea of the differences between Microsoft flight simulator / x plane and real life

Also, if you don’t pass the medical you’d have a plane you can’t fly

Good luck
 
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If there’s an EAA chapter nearby, join and talk with members, have them walk you thru their aircraft and equipment. Candidly, I’d suggest a Cessna 152 with the basics to get you thru the private. During this time you’ll get a good idea what aircraft you want and what widgets and what the market is doing. It will also introduce you to aircraft maintenance and insurance. Then go buy what you want, sell the 152 and enjoy yourself.

As a side note, the 430/530 line is close to end of life (some models already are)
This is just like the computer world….there’s something new every year.
 
The toe bone's connected to the foot bone,
The foot bone's connected to the ankle bone,
The ankle bone's connected to the leg bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

The leg bone's connected to the knee bone,
The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone,
The thigh bone's connected to the hip bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!
 
murphey said:
If there’s an EAA chapter nearby, join and talk with members, have them walk you thru their aircraft and equipment. Candidly, I’d suggest a Cessna 152 with the basics to get you thru the private. During this time you’ll get a good idea what aircraft you want and what widgets and what the market is doing. It will also introduce you to aircraft maintenance and insurance. Then go buy what you want, sell the 152 and enjoy yourself.

As a side note, the 430/530 line is close to end of life (some models already are)
This is just like the computer world….there’s something new every year.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the advice. I’ve been looking at 152s, for sure. Gotta love the stability and slower speeds for learning purposes. Mooneys caught my attention a little, since they tend to have more affordable airframes, but 152s have that noob appeal, lol.
 
Randomskylane said:
At least get a few lessons before buying something because you might have motion sickness or anxiety issues or you hate ear pain from altitude changes… or something else. Unless you are inside a simulator which actually moves you are unlikely to have any idea of the differences between Microsoft flight simulator / x plane and real life

Also, if you don’t pass the medical you’d have a plane you can’t fly

Good luck
Click to expand...
I can understand what you’re saying. However, I’ve been flying before, just never as PIC. I’ve been on planes, trains, boats (including small sail boats that heel over and rock heavy in the waves), rode the most extreme rollercoasters the world has to offer. Motion sickness, vertigo, and ear pain have never been the slightest problem, thankfully. I also got my 1st Class med cert a couple of months ago. Took my discovery flight, breezed through it. I was right at home behind the yoke, thanks to decades of sim experience. I’m more learning the technical side of things now, before I start ground school and flight training in the Spring (hopefully).
 
Hang 4 said:
Think OP might be referring to a Nav radio (ILS, VOR) being connected to something like HSI/CDI.

I'd suggest taking a few hours of lessons before doing any plane shopping. The difference between seeing how stuff works vs just reading about it is pretty dramatic. I ended up buying a plane before finishing PP, but it was after I soloed in a 172. Got well more than the minimum for IFR (G500, GTN650), but very glad I did. My plane budget initially was about 25% of what I ended up spending. Initial searches of for sale sites like Trade a Plane had me looking at what I now know to be pretty junky planes. As an aside, I doubt I saved any money by buying vs renting. The big advantage to me was being fully trained in the plane I was going to fly when I got my ticket. Same was true for IFR rating. Really helped to be doing all the procedures using the instruments i would use going forward. Good example would be the difference in workflow between GTN and GNS GPS devices. Same company (Garmin) but very different ways to accomplish the tasks.
Click to expand...
I definitely intend to talk to some experienced A&Ps and pilots/CFIs when it comes time to decide for sure if I want to buy or rent.

I don’t expect to save much by way of buying a plane compared to renting. My main goal is having a plane available to me when my work schedule allows me to fly and the quality of logbook hours. Being able to do more diverse things other than buzzing around the same airport or going to get a burger within the limited rental period. I’ve been digging into a lot of what makes a plane go and how the avionics work (hence, this post), and cross-referencing planes on trade-a-plane and Controller.

Been looking at a myriad of price ranges to see what a cheap plane looks like, with all its stats and engine/prop/airframe hours, compared to a more expensive plane. At the moment, I’m thinking of budgeting for a plane in the $100K range. You think it’s feasible to get a good plane at that price point?

I’m not dead set on buying, but I really would like the freedom that comes with owning vs. renting, especially during the 250 hour stretch to Commercial.
 
Not a legal requirement but a practical requirement for solo IFR is an autopilot. Just a wing-leveler is a big improvement.
 
get your PPL first before buying a plane. Seriously. Also, you run the risk of not being able to find someone to train you in your own plane. Its not like you can walk up to a flight school and hire any CFI to train you in your plane for PPL (for instrument they will). Many flight schools will not for PPL. So you're pool of CFI's are the independent ones that are out there - and you might be ok finding one, it might be difficult. its just not worth the headache when training for PPL - especially since your plane might be down for annual or maintenance and you're training essentially stops until that is resolved. Again - finish your PPL then start the ownership journey.
 
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