How much time to pull the wings off C182/185/210 aircraft?

azblackbird

azblackbird

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azblackbird
Say you have 3 guys with the proper tools (electric/air)... how much time on average would it take to pull the wings off a Cessna 182/185/210 series aircraft and load everything on a trailer?
 
Depends.

Is there fuel in the tanks?

How much trailer prep is required?

Got a way to hold the wings?

Why would you bother with air tools?

Now, I ain't took no wings off a 182/185/210 specifically - but I done it on other planes. The unbolting the wings is the easy part.
 
I hear they come off real quick -n- easy.....flown between two trees. :lol:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I hear they come off real quick -n- easy.....flown between two trees. :lol:
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I teach up in the Sierra where the predominant landscape below is 100' pine/fir/cedar trees. We teach that if you are going to make a forced landing without a road below you, find two trees you can fit the fuselage between and take the wings (and the fuel tanks) off and you will come to a pretty quick stop with the fuel a good distance behind you.

Student goes to Kansas, has engine failure, finds the ONLY two trees in the state close enough together ...

Ko,
 
luvflyin said:
The 210 is likely to take only a couple hours. Why do you ask?
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Have a line on some barn/hanger finds where the aircraft are out of annual, haven't been flown in years, etc. Rather than take any unnecessary risks, way easier to transport by ground to shop.
 
weirdjim said:
I teach up in the Sierra where the predominant landscape below is 100' pine/fir/cedar trees. We teach that if you are going to make a forced landing without a road below you, find two trees you can fit the fuselage between and take the wings (and the fuel tanks) off and you will come to a pretty quick stop with the fuel a good distance behind you.

Student goes to Kansas, has engine failure, finds the ONLY two trees in the state close enough together ...

Ko,
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Would that fall under negative transfer? ;)
 
azblackbird said:
Have a line on some barn/hanger finds where the aircraft are out of annual, haven't been flown in years, etc. Rather than take any unnecessary risks, way easier to transport by ground to shop.
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Just know what you're getting into with those. It's basically like playing Russian Roulette with a Glock pointed at your wallet.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Just know what you're getting into with those. It's basically like playing Russian Roulette with a Glock pointed at your wallet.
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Main concern would be any corrosion from bird droppings. Worst case scenario, I buy at salvage value and start collecting parts.;)
 
azblackbird said:
Main concern would be any corrosion from bird droppings. Worst case scenario, I buy at salvage value and start collecting parts.;)
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Don't forget mice, cats, and other animals that make nests in the planes and have corrosive urine. That can get really expensive. Electrical issues from mice eating up wires, etc.

Barn finds can be good, that's basically what the 414 was, but just be realistic about the fact that if you buy one it will cost you a lot of money in maintenance to get it up to speed. The nice part is that if you want to do upgrades or big changes anyway and like projects, that can be a great excuse to do the upgrades.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Barn finds can be good, that's basically what the 414 was, but just be realistic about the fact that if you buy one it will cost you a lot of money in maintenance to get it up to speed.
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Your beam replacement was a teaching moment for me. Given today's technological advancements in inspection tools, if I buy a bum aircraft, I have no one to blame but myself.
 
About 5min with a sawzaw.. unless you wanted to put them back on at some point?
 
azblackbird said:
Your beam replacement was a teaching moment for me. Given today's technological advancements in inspection tools, if I buy a bum aircraft, I have no one to blame but myself.
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sounds like this is a shot at a pretty well respected member of the board.. Just my 2 cents
 
sferguson524 said:
sounds like this is a shot at a pretty well respected member of the board.. Just my 2 cents
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Not in the very least. His undiscovered findings was a great motivator to go over every single nook and cranny of any potential aircraft purchase with a fine tooth comb. Given today's technologies (fish eye cameras, ultra sonic testers, spectrometers, etc,) if I buy an aircraft that has any hidden defects, all the blame is on me and nobody else.;)
 
azblackbird said:
Not in the very least. His undiscovered findings was a great motivator to go over every single nook and cranny of any potential aircraft purchase with a fine tooth comb. Given today's technologies (fish eye cameras, ultra sonic testers, spectrometers, etc,) if I buy an aircraft that has any hidden defects, all the blame is on me and nobody else.;)
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So 100k in equipment and 100's of hours to save 20k on a plane.
 
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azblackbird said:
Have a line on some barn/hanger finds where the aircraft are out of annual, haven't been flown in years, etc. Rather than take any unnecessary risks, way easier to transport by ground to shop.
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sounds like you're about to make a small fortune. :D
 
ifly4fun said:
By starting with a large one.
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3ph0gc.jpg
 
weirdjim said:
I teach up in the Sierra where the predominant landscape below is 100' pine/fir/cedar trees. We teach that if you are going to make a forced landing without a road below you, find two trees you can fit the fuselage between and take the wings (and the fuel tanks) off and you will come to a pretty quick stop with the fuel a good distance behind you.

Student goes to Kansas, has engine failure, finds the ONLY two trees in the state close enough together ...

Ko,
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There are trees in Kansas ???????
 
Vaflier said:
There are trees in Kansas ???????
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Naw.
Someone must have painted a few of those Kansas wind turbines green to make them look even more environmentally friendly.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Just know what you're getting into with those. It's basically like playing Russian Roulette with a Glock pointed at your wallet.
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Poor Glock. Always being picked on. I'm not even sure a Glock would want to be pointed at a "wallet" that dumb. Natural selection will take care of it. That Glock has better things to do with its time. :)
 
Everskyward said:
Yup, and some have thorns...
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Tarheelpilot said:
I thought most of them had power lines attached :)
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Mari knows about the "osage apple" trees with their thorny limbs, having helped clean up the go-kart track prior to the bonfire last month at our house.

denverpilot said:
Poor Glock. Always being picked on. I'm not even sure a Glock would want to be pointed at a "wallet" that dumb. Natural selection will take care of it. That Glock has better things to do with its time. :)
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Insert your other semi-automatic gun of choice. The point is that you've got one round in it, it's a semi-auto (so the risk is slightly different than a revolver with one round in it), and your wallet is going to take the brunt of the impact. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Insert your other semi-automatic gun of choice. The point is that you've got one round in it, it's a semi-auto (so the risk is slightly different than a revolver with one round in it), and your wallet is going to take the brunt of the impact. :)
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Sorry. Subtle firearms humor was lost on that one. Glock vs everything is a common theme on firearms forums.

And now you're picking on the poor semi-autos? Sheesh. What are the revolvers? Chopped liver?! :)
 
ifly4fun said:
So 100k in equipment and 100's of hours to save 20k on a plane.
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That summarizes it very well. Cessna publishes SIDs for the twins and I think also the singles. These inspections don't even cover all of the problem areas (because Cessna doesn't know where all of the problem areas are) but they are extremely expensive and include items such as eddy current inspections around each rivet hole in the wing spar. I seem to recall on a Twin Cessna the general expectation is 400 hours or so for the labor involved in the SIDs, and some parts (which aren't cheap). So anyone who thinks he's going to do something like that as part of the prebuy for a $20k aircraft (or even $100k) hasn't really done much of a cost/benefit analysis. These SIDs aren't FAA required and very few (effectively no) owners are having them done if not required by AD. Some countries do require the SIDs, and they really do a great job of sending airplanes to the scrapyards. Not because there's a problem with the plane, but because it's just not economical to do the inspection, and this is on a flying aircraft.

Then there's the stuff that you effectively can't inspect at all, as opposed to stuff that you can't reasonably inspect. I'd love for someone to tell me how they can tell if a propeller that is bone dry today is going to start leaking tomorrow, and from where. How are you going to tell me that the $0.02 worth of Permatex #2 around the nose seal of a C93 McCauley is going to go bad tomorrow vs. not? Are you really going to pull cylinders off an engine that's been sitting to look inside to show evidence of pitting, etc.? Even on mutli hundred thousand dollar airplanes you don't see people pulling cylinders as part of a prebuy unless a problem is found, and if it looks fine today how can you tell me it isn't going to start making metal in 100 hours or snap a crankshaft? The answer is that you can't without a complete engine teardown, and even then I'd say in many cases you will be unsuccessful in making that determination.

And, is the seller actually going to let you do all of this in the first place for a barn find? I sure wouldn't. The whole point is it's cheap because it's been sitting, do your inspection and then decide if you want it or not.

All this ignores the initial question of removing the wings and trailering it back, which really is typically more trouble than it's worth and adds its own risk. There's a reason why most of the time planes are flown out of where they were and get ferried someplace else to be made airworthy again.

I've seen more than a few planes get purchased with varying backgrounds and varying levels of prebuy inspections. The one constant is that any sort of barn find planes are going to result in some significant work as part of catch-up. Beyond that, a lot of it is a crapshoot. I see people get very thorough prebuys done correctly who need major work shortly after purchase due to areas you can't inspect, and people who do functional flight checks, read through the logbooks and learn the history of the plane, give a lowball "as-is" price and come away ahead on the gamble. In fact, option 2 usually works out very well for the right candidate, as some of my past clients can attest who I've recommended that to. At the end of the day, an educated decision with advice from knowledgeable individuals who know the realities is the best you can do, and understanding you're still talking about a 30+ year old plane and thus there will be issues.
 
Very informative Ted... thanks. :thumbsup:

Ted DuPuis said:
All this ignores the initial question of removing the wings and trailering it back, which really is typically more trouble than it's worth and adds its own risk.
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Just curious... why is trailering a risk and such a hassle? We're talking singles, no twins.
 
azblackbird said:
Just curious... why is trailering a risk and such a hassle? We're talking singles, no twins.
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Anytime you perform maintenance on an airplane, there's a risk that goes along with it which mainly comes from putting it back together wrong. Airline maintenance programs actually take this into account and will sometimes show it's safer to leave a problem component in place that might fail than it is to do a pre-emptive fix. But if you're transporting a plane on a trailer, now you have to figure out how to support the plane in a manner other than intended by design and not break it in the transport. You'll have to build some supports and provide sufficient cushioning and strapping to hold it in place but also make sure that no one area gets too much force. Sure, it's done with some regularity, but it's also really easy to damage sheetmetal in the process. Usually planes on trailers don't get reassembled in my experience.

Meanwhile, a ferry flight that has proper preparations also has risks, but they can typically be mitigated with proper planning.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Meanwhile, a ferry flight that has proper preparations also has risks, but they can typically be mitigated with proper planning.
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Aircraft sitting for long periods of time, out of annual, rats nest behind the avionics panel, leaking seals/o-rings, potential internal engine corrosion. No thanks... wings are coming off and it's going on a trailer. :yesnod:

Already found a shop who will re-furb them like brand new and leave me enough meat on the bone to make a decent profit. They even prefer the wings already be removed. ;)
 
azblackbird said:
Aircraft sitting for long periods of time, out of annual, rats nest behind the avionics panel, leaking seals/o-rings, potential internal engine corrosion. No thanks... wings are coming off and it's going on a trailer. :yesnod:
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You've decided this based on your many years of experience as a pilot and A&P... oh wait.
 
AZ: gotta admit I admire your entrepreneurial spirit but personally I think you should downshift and work on your license and see how it goes. But that's just me. Aviation is a great hobby and a great place to lose a boat load of cash :) Just sayin.
 
EminiTrader said:
AZ: gotta admit I admire your entrepreneurial spirit but personally I think you should downshift and work on your license and see how it goes. But that's just me. Aviation is a great hobby and a great place to lose a boat load of cash :) Just sayin.
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He doesn't need to downshift, he hasn't made it out of first gear in two decades. :)
 
EminiTrader said:
AZ: gotta admit I admire your entrepreneurial spirit but personally I think you should downshift and work on your license and see how it goes. But that's just me. Aviation is a great hobby and a great place to lose a boat load of cash :) Just sayin.
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I've basically been unemployed for the last 20 years, so I'm in GO mode right now to fill the coffers back up. And yes... aviation can be a great hobby... it can also be a great business! :yesnod:
 
azblackbird said:
I've basically been unemployed for the last 20 years, so I'm in GO mode right now to fill the coffers back up. And yes... aviation can be a great hobby... it can also be a great business! :yesnod:
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Well I'll have to take your word that aviation is a great business. The only thing aviation does to me is sucks me dry - but I love it. Never tried to make money in aviation though. Who knows maybe because of this post I'll go to school and be an AP:) but I doubt it.
 
EminiTrader said:
Well I'll have to take your word that aviation is a great business. The only thing aviation does to me is sucks me dry - but I love it. Never tried to make money in aviation though. Who knows maybe because of this post I'll go to school and be an AP:) but I doubt it.
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Never quit learning!
 
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