How much does it cost per hour for Maintenance for these airplanes?

forseth11

forseth11

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Forseth11
I have a list of airplanes I am considering buying, but I do not know their Maintenance cost per hour.
The Maintenance will fall under part 135, so I know it should be more than part 91.

If you have the answers, and some free time, could you please tell me an estimated cost per hour for the following planes accounting for saving for prop replacement and engine overhaul and 100 hour inspection:
(If you don't have a specific number like that, could you tell me the annual cost for inspections and the engine(s) overhaul price and engine(s) time until overhaul?)
  • Cessna 421 - Twin Turbo (Model: CMI GTSIO-520-L and -N)
  • Cirrus SR20 - Single Prop 6 Cylinders (Continental IO-360-C3B6)
  • Cessna 206 Turbo Stationair - Single prop - (TIO-540-AJ1A)
  • Cirrus SR22T - Single prop piston 6 cylinders - (Continental IO-550-N)
  • Piper PA-31 Navajo - Twin prop 6 cylinders - (2 Lyc. TIO-540-A2C)
  • Cessna 402 - Twin turbo prop piston - (Continental TSIO-520-VB)
  • Cessna 210 - Single Prop 6 cylinders - (Continental IO-520-L)
  • Beechcraft Twin Bonanza E50 - Twin piston - (Lycoming GSO-480-A1A6)
Thank you for the help!
 
Stepping up to 135 is huge. You're going to be an organization, with numerous manuals and training programs and a need for numerous employees, ok you might be able to pull it off with several, wearing multiple hats. When it comes to maintenance you're going to need at least two employees or a designated contractor. You'll be dealing with Required Inspection Items which require two different individuals for sign off. You need to read through FAR 135
 
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GlennAB1 said:
Stepping up to 135 is huge. You're going to be an organization, with numerous manuals and training programs and a need for numerous employees, ok you might be able to pull it off with several, wearing multiple hats. When it comes to maintenance you're going to need at least two employees or a designated contractor. You'll be dealing with Required Inspection Items which require two different individuals for sign off. You need to read through FAR 135
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Yes I was going to buy at least 4 planes and pay for a 135 maintenance program and get an air carrier certificate to opperate. I am just trying to find out which planes are cheaper to opperate, but it is not easy to get a 135 maintenance quote.
 
murphey said:
Whatever the hourly rate at the shop you use.
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Though I think he meant what does the maintenance cost average out to per flight hour, I was almost ready to make the same post you did but you beat me to it. He phrased it badly. Of course based upon his post, I think he has a lot more to worry about besides maintenance costs.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Though I think he meant what does the maintenance cost average out to per flight hour, I was almost ready to make the same post you did but you beat me to it. He phrased it badly. Of course based upon his post, I think he has a lot more to worry about besides maintenance costs.
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Haha I wrote this at midnight, so I was bound to make mistakes. Cessna 402, meant to say it is a twin piston.
 
forseth11 said:
Yes I was going to buy at least 4 planes and pay for a 135 maintenance program and get an air carrier certificate to opperate. I am just trying to find out which planes are cheaper to opperate, but it is not easy to get a 135 maintenance quote.
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You must have an artesian well of cash inflow.
 
forseth11 said:
Not yet no. I just have an idea and potential market my investors are interested in since I brought it up.
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My uncle owns a Bell 206 and leases it out 135 in Albuquerque, NM. There's money to be made, but you have to know the business.
 
forseth11 said:
I have a list of airplanes I am considering buying, but I do not know their Maintenance cost per hour.
The Maintenance will fall under part 135, so I know it should be more than part 91.

If you have the answers, and some free time, could you please tell me an estimated cost per hour for the following planes accounting for saving for prop replacement and engine overhaul and 100 hour inspection:
(If you don't have a specific number like that, could you tell me the annual cost for inspections and the engine(s) overhaul price and engine(s) time until overhaul?)
  • Cessna 421 - Twin Turbo (Model: CMI GTSIO-520-L and -N)
  • Cirrus SR20 - Single Prop 6 Cylinders (Continental IO-360-C3B6)
  • Cessna 206 Turbo Stationair - Single prop - (TIO-540-AJ1A)
  • Cirrus SR22T - Single prop piston 6 cylinders - (Continental IO-550-N)
  • Piper PA-31 Navajo - Twin prop 6 cylinders - (2 Lyc. TIO-540-A2C)
  • Cessna 402 - Twin turbo prop piston - (Continental TSIO-520-VB)
  • Cessna 210 - Single Prop 6 cylinders - (Continental IO-520-L)
  • Beechcraft Twin Bonanza E50 - Twin piston - (Lycoming GSO-480-A1A6)
Thank you for the help!
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The answer to this question is heavily dependent upon utilization. As an example, under 135 you will need to OH your props and engines per the hourly and the calendar requirements. If you're going to put 150 hrs/yr or 600 hrs/yr makes a pretty big swing.

Also, can the singles listed here get compliant with this?

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.284.pdf


P.S. - I don't think anyone in their right mind would put a TBone on 135.
 
Don't even think of putting a Twin Bonanza on 135. No. Just no. Trust me. :)

The 421, 414 (you should consider a 414 if you're looking at a 421), and 402 are good considerations, but you really need to think about what market you're looking at. On 135 you'll need to stay at or below 10k cabin altitude unless your passengers have oxygen. You're in Fort Worth, so that probably won't be an issue. Navajos and 402s are good choices, both likely around $500/hr to operate. It's easier to find Navajos that have nice interiors (in fact, I know of one for sale that came off of 135 a year ago and would be a good consideration). Almost all the 402s out there have been consumed by Cape Air and freight haulers. Good luck finding one.

Unless you need the useful load of a 421 vs. a 414, the 421 will cost you more to operate. The GTSIOs are more maintenance intensive. 421 owners will disagree typically, but when you talk to them and ask questions you'll find the extra costs. Some people are lucky, though. $600-700/hr for those typically.

With any of these planes, getting them ready for 135 can be a big dollar affair. About 5 years ago I was involved with a Navajo that we got 135 ready. It took about $50k on top of the purchase cost, and this was not a particularly cheap Navajo to begin with. Part of that was because the agents helping with the purchase missed some of the big ticket items that were going to have to be dealt with (yeared out props, for instance).

You have a lot of planes that are not at all equivalent on there, for example the Cirrus. You'll want to figure out what the potential customers want and need, and are willing to pay. All of those need to come together to make it work.

I've spent a good bit of time around the cabin class Twin Cessnas and Navajos if you have any specific questions.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Don't even think of putting a Twin Bonanza on 135. No. Just no. Trust me. :)
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Came here to say the same thing. I love the TBone (I'm in the process of buying one myself), but I certainly wouldn't want to even think about putting it on a 135 certificate. There aren't too many actively flying these days, and while there are a fair number of common parts with the Baron, parts will be an issue for a 135 carrier who can't afford any downtime. Not a big deal for a recreational owner who has time to search for parts, etc., but when the airplane has to earn its keep, parts searching will suck. Moreover, there aren't all that many shops anymore that are familiar with the geared lycomings. You'll be able to get work done, overhauls, etc., sure, but your local engine shop probably won't be the place to do it.
 
I'll also add I know a decent number available in the market.
 
forseth11 said:
Not yet no. I just have an idea and potential market my investors are interested in since I brought it up.
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Then take your investors and work out a deal with a existing 135 operator to base a plane at your airport. You and your investors guarantee a set number of hours every month and you take care of marketing for the organization. That way, when you realize that this is not a viable. Business model, you'll be out only 1/2 a million or so.

If a year or two in, you haven't lost your mind and it turns out there is money too be made, have your investors buy the correct plane for your market and have your part 135 operator put it on his certificate under a FAA vetted lease.

In the charter business, if you have customers, everything else can be arranged. Plane, pilot, operating certificate are all available for rent. Paying customers is what you need.
 
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