How long did it take before you landed landing

I think one mistake I made was to try to hit the center line even after in the flare. So long as I'm going straight along the runway, being off center some at that stage is not a problem.
 
tinerj said:
I think one mistake I made was to try to hit the center line even after in the flare. So long as I'm going straight along the runway, being off center some at that stage is not a problem.
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That depends on how wide your runway is. It's important to be able to stay on center. You might not always have the luxury of an airliner-sized runway.

Also, sometimes a wind gust will move you over at the last moment, and if you're not holding center pretty well already you won't have any margin for that gust.
 
1.4 more hours of landings today

Most were not so good
Had to call my first 2 go arounds
Best part of the day was the last landing was high five worthy.
 
N3368K said:
If there's no bent tin, you're doing okay.
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No bent tin and no bouncing. Just hard landings. On two I landed flat, didn't float or flare.

CFI knows I bought a retractable gear plane so half way through today he threw GUMPS check in. On top of that due to cloud cover we were departing 26L for right closed traffic instead of left closed traffic. Runway 26R was closed for noise abatement till 9am but the tower kept clearing me for 26R so I was confirming and reaffirming with them all while learning right traffic pattern and reciting GUMPS procedures on Downwind and Base. A lot of new thrown in today but I liked it, really pushed me to focus.
 
On a scale from one to ten here's how I rated my own landings:
The first 5 - 1
The next 10 - 2
The next 50 - 3
The next 100 - 4
The next 1000 - 5
If I make 10 landings per day I should have them perfected by the year 2166.
 
Somewhere around 500 hours I quit worrying much about landings. Get her down or go somewhere else. I finally started flying the plane other than the other way around
 
Sacrifice goat = overcontrolling.

Sacrifice chicken = no dinner for you tonight.

Sacrifice the Tom Hanks complex = you will do fine. You aren't landing on a carrier.
 
I just made my first landings from the right seat. Wow - if you want to be humbled move over to the right and try that. You would not think that small amount of change would be a big deal. It is.

The reason why I am doing this is so that my 20 year old student pilot son can fly left seat with me on some practice flights for him. I went up with my CFI to get "checked out" in the right seat. It took about 4 landings to get the sight picture down.

The FAA does not require any "check out" to fly from the right seat, but I would definitely recommend doing this with a CFI.
 
It takes time. I spent something like 7 hours flying in circles (rectangles, specifically).
 
tinerj said:
I think one mistake I made was to try to hit the center line even after in the flare. So long as I'm going straight along the runway, being off center some at that stage is not a problem.
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Most of the alignment errors in landing - both drift and landing left of center; right of center for new CFI candidates - is the result of trying to line up the airplane. Line yourself up - centerline between your knees and square to your chest* - and the airplane will too.

*or any reasonable equivalent, including the yoke, so long as it involves lining yourself up.
 
Due to my rotating work schedule (including a few weekends per month), (sometimes flying only once a week), it took me a little longer to solo, around 23 hours. That was twenty years ago.

My landings were ok. Never felt like I was going to bend metal or kill myself, but things didn't really click until after getting my certificate, several months after solo. My biggest problem was with crosswind landings.
Once things clicked, they clicked.
Getting my Tailwheel training and endorsement was one of the best things I've done to improve my landings in general.
 
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It took me about 12 hours and around 50 landings with my CFI before I was cleared to solo. Lots of flights where we'd get up in the pattern and just do touch-and-gos for a while (never more than 7, don't want that fatigue to set in). At my home airport, there is almost always some sort of crosswind so it's really a trial by fire situation. I would always round off or flare way too early and drop the bird on the runway from too high up or sometimes I'd skid sideways because I didn't correct for the wind enough.

I'd never say that now I'm some landing god, but I put her down and I don't bounce or feel like I'm going to bend the struts or drive the nose gear up through the engine in this poor club 152. I don't even really know what made it click for me, just one day I finally started rounding off low enough and the rest fell in to place. Oddly enough, practicing short field landings ended up improving my regular landings.
 
I just went through what you describe and solo'ed for the first time this morning. For the last 5 or 6 lessons we would do 12-15 landings, focusing on just pattern work, and yesterday it just clicked for me. Here is what I found that helped, other than a very patient CFI.

I am a n00b, so take this with a grain of salt..

Trim, trim and trim.
Abeam the numbers, make sure you are trimmed for the proper airspeed.
After turning based, trim some more if needed for airspeed
On final, make sure you are trimmed for landing (my target in the C172 is 60-65 and when I cross the threshold 55-60 feels good) but use the yoke to keep the sight picture in the right place.
as you start the round out, pretend you are trying not to land, you will naturally flare (or transition the airplane to the take off angle) and boom, it should just settle, keep the back pressure to keep the front wheel off the ground.

Hope this helps in some small way.
 
I have about 12 hours towards my ppl. Last Friday was the closest I came to landing on my own. I ballooned at the last minute. Pulled just a little too much. Gave my CFI his second minor heart attack for our session.
I'm close I can feel it. I can also see how it's going to take a lot longer till I feel any where near comfortable.
I set up 5 or 6 lessons in a 10 day period. Hoping to work on landings and touch and gos.
Did my first steep turns last week. They where awesome!!
This thread has been good for me to read.its good to know I'm not alone..
 
Well I am now over 16 hours, still lost. I think I need to try a new CFI to tell me the same stuff in a different way, maybe I am just not listening.

I get setup on downwind perfect
I get setup on base perfect. Pitch speed perfect
I get setup on final perfect. Pitch speed perfect, VASI is 2W2R, I pull the power out when I make the runway and all hell breaks loose. Nose starts going left and right, plane is sideways, I level out and the plane is looking hard left. I cannot keep the plane centered on the runway and I do not know why. CFI says not enough rudder, not feeling my feet. But if I am starting to point the nose right why would I give more right rudder? CFI said to stop using the ailerons on final and I did, I am still all over the dang place.

10 hours of landing and I am still in the exact rut I was in when I started. Is there something about a DA-40 on landing I a missing?
 
Jamie, use the ailerons all the way down to the runway. that is absurd for him to say don't use ailerons. how else will you correct for crosswind? Use ailerons to center the plane and rudder to control yaw. As you slow down your inputs are less effective (less air over the control surfaces) so you will need to use more inputs as needed. Don't try to 'steer' the plane back to the center of the runway with the rudder. use ailerons then feet movement to keep you tracking straight. and pull power out smoothly.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
Well I am now over 16 hours, still lost.

10 hours of landing and I am still in the exact rut I was in when I started. Is there something about a DA-40 on landing I a missing?
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I think everyone is different. I also think if we stick with it all of a sudden there it is....
No one said it would be easy.LOL...
Also no one told me about stalls... That kinda freaked me out. But I got them down!!
I'm still really nervous in slow flight knowing I'm going into a stall...
 
texasclouds said:
Jamie, use the ailerons all the way down to the runway. that is absurd for him to say don't use ailerons. how else will you correct for crosswind? Use ailerons to center the plane and rudder to control yaw. As you slow down your inputs are less effective (less air over the control surfaces) so you will need to use more inputs as needed. Don't try to 'steer' the plane back to the center of the runway with the rudder. use ailerons then feet movement to keep you tracking straight. and pull power out smoothly.
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I should clarify, he only told me to stop using the ailerons on one landing to see if it helped me not move the plane around.

Any reason why my nose doesn't stay straight when I start to round out? I get to ground effect and I am holding it and the nose goes right almost every time. I know it is something I am doing, or not doing, but I can't figure out what.
 
I bought a GoPro right now on Amazon. I am going to video my entire session Wednesday and I'll edit the videos and post them. Maybe someone here can point out what I am doing wrong.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
Any reason why my nose doesn't stay straight when I start to round out? I get to ground effect and I am holding it and the nose goes right almost every time. I know it is something I am doing, or not doing, but I can't figure out what.
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Left-turning tendancies?
Remember, one of them (P-factor) kicks in whenever the nose is pointed up, so if the nose is up, you'll need more right rudder.
At the same time, the act of *raising* the nose makes Gyroscopic Precession kick in, swinging the nose to the right and requiring left rudder.
I don't know anything about DA-40's and how they handle, but maybe the latter is what you're feeling? You'd only feel the Gyroscopic Precession effect while the pitch is *changing*. Then, once you're nose-high and holding it there, Gyroscopic Precession goes away and you'd feel the P-factor.
Just a thought? How noticible are these effects at low power?
 
kath said:
Left-turning tendancies?
Remember, one of them (P-factor) kicks in whenever the nose is pointed up, so if the nose is up, you'll need more right rudder.
At the same time, the act of *raising* the nose makes Gyroscopic Precession kick in, swinging the nose to the right and requiring left rudder.
I don't know anything about DA-40's and how they handle, but maybe the latter is what you're feeling? You'd only feel the Gyroscopic Precession effect while the pitch is *changing*. Then, once you're nose-high and holding it there, Gyroscopic Precession goes away and you'd feel the P-factor.
Just a thought? How noticible are these effects at low power?
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When I use more rudder I then chase the plane. Too much right, now left, now right, left, right. I am almost down why am I looking at the grass and not the runway? I know I am a bad dancer and have two left feet but this is ridiculous.

I am going to print your post out and make notes on Wednesday.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
Well I am now over 16 hours, still lost. I think I need to try a new CFI to tell me the same stuff in a different way, maybe I am just not listening.

I get setup on downwind perfect
I get setup on base perfect. Pitch speed perfect
I get setup on final perfect. Pitch speed perfect, VASI is 2W2R, I pull the power out when I make the runway and all hell breaks loose. Nose starts going left and right, plane is sideways, I level out and the plane is looking hard left. I cannot keep the plane centered on the runway and I do not know why. CFI says not enough rudder, not feeling my feet. But if I am starting to point the nose right why would I give more right rudder? CFI said to stop using the ailerons on final and I did, I am still all over the dang place.

10 hours of landing and I am still in the exact rut I was in when I started. Is there something about a DA-40 on landing I a missing?
Click to expand...

He said "not enough rudder", not "not enough RIGHT rudder". The rudder goes both ways. The DA40 is a sweet bird, but it has a large rudder which can either be "floppy" if you don't have both feet firmly on the pedals (thus reducing yaw stability), or it can "help" you to overcontrol.

Easiest thing when starting out, IMO, is to keep yourself pointed straight down the runway with rudder, and center yourself on the extended runway centerline with aileron. Are you left of center but pointed down the runway? You need right aileron. Are you over the centerline, but pointed left? You need right rudder. Are you right of centerline but pointed left? You need right rudder and left aileron.

I would suggest that if you're having "all hell break loose" when you pull power, you're pulling power too quickly. Smoothly reduce power, and the changes to the yaw forces won't happen so fast. If the nose is going left and right faster than you're able to control it, you're pulling power too fast. Keep making the power reduction slower and slower until you can keep up with the yaw, and then do it that way until it's second nature. It'll happen a lot easier than you think it will, and before you know it you'll have no problem handling the plane even if your CFI yanks it to idle on you.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
He said "not enough rudder", not "not enough RIGHT rudder". The rudder goes both ways. The DA40 is a sweet bird, but it has a large rudder which can either be "floppy" if you don't have both feet firmly on the pedals (thus reducing yaw stability), or it can "help" you to overcontrol.

Easiest thing when starting out, IMO, is to keep yourself pointed straight down the runway with rudder, and center yourself on the extended runway centerline with aileron. Are you left of center but pointed down the runway? You need right aileron. Are you over the centerline, but pointed left? You need right rudder. Are you right of centerline but pointed left? You need right rudder and left aileron.

I would suggest that if you're having "all hell break loose" when you pull power, you're pulling power too quickly. Smoothly reduce power, and the changes to the yaw forces won't happen so fast. If the nose is going left and right faster than you're able to control it, you're pulling power too fast. Keep making the power reduction slower and slower until you can keep up with the yaw, and then do it that way until it's second nature. It'll happen a lot easier than you think it will, and before you know it you'll have no problem handling the plane even if your CFI yanks it to idle on you.
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A lot of good info here. Thank you. Printing also and going to make notes for my knee board so I can try this.
 
Enjoying the conversation and re-living my primary training. :p I still channel my instructor gently tapping me on the back of the head with a folded up Trade-A-Plane yelling "Use your feet! Use your feet!" when learning to land. A common error is to saw the ailerons back and forth on final to the point you are over-controlling. Banking is a slow way to re-point the plane. Making small corrections with the rudder will minimize having to make large corrections with the ailerons on final. In the flare, ailerons to LEVEL the plane and rudder to POINT the plane. If there is a small crosswind drift, you will need rudder to either slip or kick out of a crab and point the plane down the runway just before touchdown. If there is a significant crosswind, you may not be pointing down the runway until just before touchdown. It's easier to learn and do than explain. Stick with it. You will eventually get it.
 
Reliving my training as well...

I had reached the point where I kind of ‘had it’ but was still all over the place. My CFI kept telling me to just relax that death grip on the yoke and let it happen. “I’m Trying!!” said this sweaty 17 yo, just learned to drive, 12 hour student.

After rolling out on KAGC’s Runway 28 following the latest tire squealing, airframe bashing arrival, he said “let me have it”.

After I peeled my hands off the yoke and dried off a bit he said, “watch me do a circuit with no hands on the yoke”. He taxied back, trimmed, lined it up, and took off. He said that he’ll tell me when to take the yoke for the flare. He let the C150 do its thing with just a bit of trim, a smooth power change or two, and some gentle rudder work.

CLICK

A damn parlor trick!
But it was a calm evening.
And I did solo the next time up.


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Jamie Kirk said:
Well I am now over 16 hours, still lost. I think I need to try a new CFI to tell me the same stuff in a different way, maybe I am just not listening.

I get setup on downwind perfect
I get setup on base perfect. Pitch speed perfect
I get setup on final perfect. Pitch speed perfect, VASI is 2W2R, I pull the power out when I make the runway and all hell breaks loose. Nose starts going left and right, plane is sideways, I level out and the plane is looking hard left. I cannot keep the plane centered on the runway and I do not know why. CFI says not enough rudder, not feeling my feet. But if I am starting to point the nose right why would I give more right rudder? CFI said to stop using the ailerons on final and I did, I am still all over the dang place.

10 hours of landing and I am still in the exact rut I was in when I started. Is there something about a DA-40 on landing I a missing?
Click to expand...
started wondering if i would ever get it then next thing u know it all just comes together
 
One problem I had on alignment was using ailerons and rudder independently- If I needed to add rudder to get the nose straight, I’d then next be off center, then add aileron to bring it back, then need rudder, and oh - there’s the ground!

The thing that helped my was the concept (it may not be ‘correct’ but it’s how I perceive it) that if I needed aileron input, I was very probably going to need opposite rudder, and vice versa, if so apply both at the same time.

To me at least, conceiving it like the feeling of a very small forward slip helped.

Hang in there, it’ll come!
 
Was back out there today, got the GoPro all setup and I forgot to hit record. So sorry, no video but I'll get it right Monday I promise.

Your comments helped, thank you. I had some good landings today.

Pulling the power out very slow really helped stopped the nose from taking a turn radically.

FlyingCheese, your comment about FIRM foot placement on the DA40 pedals was spot on. I made sure I was firm and boy did it help. Before I would use it like a car, only press one at a time. But today I would always have pressure on both.

Kath, I read your post on my notes during preflight. You explained it the way I needed to read it. As I was puling the nose up I would have gentle pressure on the left pedal. As that movement stopped I would apply constant pressure on the right pedal. I was point right down the runway every landing today.

CFI made a comment about what a difference today was and I agree. I was getting frustrated and today was a day where at the end I felt like I did something right.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I should clarify, he only told me to stop using the ailerons on one landing to see if it helped me not move the plane around.

Any reason why my nose doesn't stay straight when I start to round out? I get to ground effect and I am holding it and the nose goes right almost every time. I know it is something I am doing, or not doing, but I can't figure out what.
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You are not using the rudder properly
 
I started doing better when my I understood (how I understand) what a landing 'is'. Fly low over the runway until the plane stalls.
My instructor and I practiced almost touching down but adding enough power to keep from doing so. Just for a few seconds at a time.

After 8 years I still approach too fast.
 
I have about 380 hours since I got my license 2-1/2 years ago. I've logged 450 landings. I thought I had it nailed yesterday. I landed with a 50-degree crosswind of 16G26. I made a nearly perfect landing, absolutely greased it on dead on the centerline, nose wheel came down softly, and just as I was about to pat myself on the back I got hit by a huge gust and found myself about 5 feet off the ground, pushing the throttle forward and having to do it all over again before I ran out of runway. So if anyone tells you they've "landed" landing, take it with a grain of salt. Nobody's perfect.
 
iamtheari said:
I have about 380 hours since I got my license 2-1/2 years ago. I've logged 450 landings. I thought I had it nailed yesterday. I landed with a 50-degree crosswind of 16G26. I made a nearly perfect landing, absolutely greased it on dead on the centerline, nose wheel came down softly, and just as I was about to pat myself on the back I got hit by a huge gust and found myself about 5 feet off the ground, pushing the throttle forward and having to do it all over again before I ran out of runway. So if anyone tells you they've "landed" landing, take it with a grain of salt. Nobody's perfect.
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That’s a lesson that tailwheeling teachs; you haven’t ‘landed’ until it’s tied down
 
MadseasoN said:
I started doing better when my I understood (how I understand) what a landing 'is'. Fly low over the runway until the plane stalls.
My instructor and I practiced almost touching down but adding enough power to keep from doing so. Just for a few seconds at a time.

After 8 years I still approach too fast.
Click to expand...

That’s a useful model for flying many light planes.

Later it can usefully morph into something like; arrest the descent simultaneously with runway contact.


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Bill Watson said:
That’s a lesson that tailwheeling teachs; you haven’t ‘landed’ until it’s tied down
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I began my lessons in a J-3 Cub, which I soloed in before moving on to my first trike, so flying the plane all the way to the tiedown was one of the first lessons I learned. Taildraggers also force you to learn judgment about when you can rescue a landing and when you can't or shouldn't. But the point here is that no matter how good you feel like you are, if you forget to be humble you will get a humbling reminder. And the OP shouldn't beat himself up about struggling with landings. We all struggle some days.
 
It's very refreshing to see this thread with so many others having a similar experience. I'm 18 hours into training and the last 4 lessons have been nothing but pattern work with 10-15 landings (and a few go-arounds). I'm still having the same consistency issues that others have mentioned with keeping things under control once I get into ground effect, especially the yaw. I think the real a-ha moment will be when the coordination between aileron and rudder control really clicks. My other problem has been figuring out the right amount of back pressure to apply in the roundout, with the CFI having to pull back pretty hard a couple times to keep me from burying the nose in the ground, and other times pulling back too much or too early and ballooning the plane.

It's all happening very fast on final approach right now, and I'm still waiting for everything to click and slow down. One positive thing I've noticed is that with each lesson I seem to be getting it closer and closer to the runway without any CFI intervention and the last couple I've landed a few on my own.

Looking forward to hearing updates (and seeing some video) from the OP. Seems like we're in similar spots. I'm excited to figure this out and move on to solo and cross-country!
 
If it was easy, pilots wouldn’t be so full of themselves. But it isn’t hard either. It just takes instruction, practice and repetition to ‘get’ it, then practice and repetition to maintain it.

Fly twice a month and you’ll be okay at it. Fly twice a week and you’ll be much better. Fly twice a day and you’ll be great at it if you can maintain your focus.


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