How is this legal?

roncachamp said:
Well, refusal to answer suggests there is no penalty, and the "RDO RQRD" notice can be safely ignored by ultralight drivers.
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Refusal to answer can also mean that no one knows the answer.

Personally, I think it's an unanswerable question, because I don't think anyone in Iowa City government has thought it through -- or cares. And no one cares because it's basically a moot point, since no one flies ultralights nowadays.
 
roncachamp said:
Somebody cared enough to put out the notice.
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True -- back in 1997.

This "notice" has apparently been posted for 13 years. As is normal with these sorts of things, once it was posted, it was there forever -- or until someone changed it. No one ever changed it because of inertia, and presumably because it impacts so few. To my knowledge no current pilots at Iowa City Airport were even aware of this "notice" until now.

It's not exactly a burning issue in the local GA community.

My guess is that there was probably some incident, back in 1997, between an ultralight and a full-sized aircraft. At that time we had one of the classic, old, crusty FBO owners, E.K. Jones, here in Iowa City. He and his family ran the airport like his own personal kingdom from 1959 until 1998, and -- although I only knew him in his last few years -- I can easily picture E.K. going ballistic on an ultralight pilot if there had been a conflict with one of his charter flights. (Back then, E.K. had charter flights buzzing in and out of Iowa City all the time.)

This is all conjecture, of course. But E.K. ran a tight ship, and had a legendary temper. Mention his name to any old-timer anywhere in the Midwest, and you'll probably hear half a dozen hair-raising stories. Ah, the good old days...

I've asked our current airport manager what the penalty is for violating the "radio rule" in an ultralight. So far, no response -- as expected. I honestly don't think there *is* a penalty, and I honestly don't think anyone would even notice if an ultralight landed at our airport today without a radio.
 
SkyHog said:
I guess the question then is: Is there a FAR that specifically prohibits the use of non-certified, non-installed equipment?
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No. Of course, some folks think the lack of specific prohibition means they can do anything they please, but they are mistaken. 91.205(d)(2) requires you to have equipment suitable for the route to be flown when operating IFR, and the FAA and NTSB agree that required equipment like that must be installed (see Administrator v. Hammerstrand, EA-3739 regarding clocks). A whole slew of AC's, TCO's, FAA Orders, and other FAA documents describe what is acceptable for 91.205 purposes, and non-certified, non-installed equipment isn't approved in any of them, especially for IFR use of GPS's.
 
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Ron Levy said:
No. Of course, some folks think the lack of specific prohibition means they can do anything they please, but they are mistaken. 91.205(d)(2) requires you to have equipment suitable for the route to be flown when operating IFR, and the FAA and NTSB agree that required equipment like that must be installed (see Administrator v. Hammerstrand, EA-3739 regarding clocks). A whole slew of AC's, TCO's, FAA Orders, and other FAA documents describe what is acceptable for 91.205 purposes, and non-certified, non-installed equipment isn't approved in any of them, especially for IFR use of GPS's.
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Is GPS required to operate IFR?
 
There's a lot of things an airport can do to discourage certain behavior. Take BEDFORD MA (Hanscom) which has imposed a "surcharge" for takeoffs prior to 7AM or after 11PM. This is added on top of the their regular fee for departures.
The airport could also deny service, refuse parking, invite you to never return. I wouldn't doubt they could have you arrested for trespassing.
 
Okay, here is the response I received from Mike Tharp, our airport authority, to my question: "What penalty is there for flying an ultralight into Iowa City (KIOW) without a radio?":

*******************************************************
It's a violation of municipal code. Here is the pertinent list of penalties for violating municipal code:


Unless another civil penalty is provided elsewhere in this code for a specific violation, a municipal infraction is a civil offense punishable as provided in the following schedule of civil penalties for each day a violation exists or continues: (1978 Code §1-21; amd. 1994 Code)
First offense
$100.00

Second offense
$250.00

Third and subsequent offenses
$500.00

Environmental infraction each offense
$1,000.00

Above is from the city code (viewable on the web). Basically, if the code doesn’t call out specific fines/penalties for violations…this is what they use.

Since I can’t issue tickets, it would have to come from city police J

Therefore, someone would have to be around to a) witness the violation b) report the violation c) provide necessary information to police to write the citation when they arrived.
*******************************************************

So there you go. I don't know what the heck an "Environmental Infraction" is -- or why it costs 1 AMU when you violate it -- but it really doesn't sound like all you NORDO ultralight pilots have too much to worry about, given the likelihood of a) being caught and b) being prosecuted.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Okay, here is the response I received from Mike Tharp, our airport authority, to my question: "What penalty is there for flying an ultralight into Iowa City (KIOW) without a radio?":

*******************************************************
It's a violation of municipal code. Here is the pertinent list of penalties for violating municipal code:


Unless another civil penalty is provided elsewhere in this code for a specific violation, a municipal infraction is a civil offense punishable as provided in the following schedule of civil penalties for each day a violation exists or continues: (1978 Code §1-21; amd. 1994 Code)
First offense
$100.00

Second offense
$250.00

Third and subsequent offenses
$500.00

Environmental infraction each offense
$1,000.00

Above is from the city code (viewable on the web). Basically, if the code doesn’t call out specific fines/penalties for violations…this is what they use.

Since I can’t issue tickets, it would have to come from city police J

Therefore, someone would have to be around to a) witness the violation b) report the violation c) provide necessary information to police to write the citation when they arrived.
*******************************************************

So there you go. I don't know what the heck an "Environmental Infraction" is -- or why it costs 1 AMU when you violate it -- but it really doesn't sound like all you NORDO ultralight pilots have too much to worry about, given the likelihood of a) being caught and b) being prosecuted.
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Thanks for doing the research. The rule doesn't seem worth the effort it took to create. It's so vague, if the city police attempted to cite an ultralight driver the pilot could show compliance by producing an iPod nano.
 
Ron Levy said:
No. Of course, some folks think the lack of specific prohibition means they can do anything they please, but they are mistaken. 91.205(d)(2) requires you to have equipment suitable for the route to be flown when operating IFR, and the FAA and NTSB agree that required equipment like that must be installed (see Administrator v. Hammerstrand, EA-3739 regarding clocks). A whole slew of AC's, TCO's, FAA Orders, and other FAA documents describe what is acceptable for 91.205 purposes, and non-certified, non-installed equipment isn't approved in any of them, especially for IFR use of GPS's.
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OK, 91.205(d)(2) says what comm and nav equipment an aircraft must contain for IFR flight, and 91.205(a) says they must be in operable condition. But it seems like Steven might have a point, in that I don't see any regulation that prohibits the pilot from using other instruments and equipment as long as the required ones are installed and in operable condition.

It may be kind of theoretical, though, because it seems like you would need a "suitable" (i.e., IFR certified) GPS to be installed if you accepted a clearance to fly a route that couldn't be flown without a GPS.

91.205(d)(2):

Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
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The question then becomes, "If you have an IFR certified GPS installed and operational, why not use it?"

So is this an 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' question, or am I missing something?
 
City of Iowa codes: look at Title 13, chapter 3. Lots of airport regulations.

http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/index.php?book_id=320

Some examples:
1) You can't taxi faster than 15 mph
2) If you operate a flying club, you have to supply and keep current a list of the club's members to the city's airport commission.
3) Mandates having the FBO man the UNICOM frequency during airport operating hours, and if more than one FBO, cycling the duty.
4) It's illegal to fuel your aircraft during an electrical storm (probably unsafe, too!). You can't fuel your plane with people inside of it, either, unless you keep the door open and have an attendant standing by to help people get out.

However, a search for "radio" and "ultralight" found no references to the "radio required" rules under discussion. It may be an amendment or something, but it's not part of the City Code of Iowa City.

Penalty for violations are covered in section 13-2-5 of Chapter 2:

13-2-5: VIOLATIONS:

A. It shall be a municipal infraction to violate or refuse to obey any of the rules or regulations of this title as set forth in title 1, chapter 4 of this code. (1978 Code §4-4; amd. 1994 Code)

B. Any person in violation of this title or refusing to comply therewith shall immediately vacate the airport property upon order of the airport manager or duly authorized deputy and may be deprived further use of the airport and its facilities for such time as may be required to ensure the safety of the public and the airport. (1978 Code §4-4)
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TangoWhiskey said:
City of Iowa codes: look at Title 13, chapter 3. Lots of airport regulations.

http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/index.php?book_id=320

Some examples:
1) You can't taxi faster than 15 mph
2) If you operate a flying club, you have to supply and keep current a list of the club's members to the city's airport commission.
3) Mandates having the FBO man the UNICOM frequency during airport operating hours, and if more than one FBO, cycling the duty.
4) It's illegal to fuel your aircraft during an electrical storm (probably unsafe, too!). You can't fuel your plane with people inside of it, either, unless you keep the door open and have an attendant standing by to help people get out.

However, a search for "radio" and "ultralight" found no references to the "radio required" rules under discussion. It may be an amendment or something, but it's not part of the City Code of Iowa City.

Penalty for violations are covered in section 13-2-5 of Chapter 2:
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What I find especially sad and poignant is that, at one time, Iowa had enough General Aviation that they felt compelled to enact these sorts of regulations.

Nowadays, few people answer UNICOM, because fewer and fewer Midwest airports have FBOs. "Attendants" to watch as you fuel have become as scarce as hen's teeth. And, heck, I can't even remember the last time a "line boy" came out and parked us.

Sadly, those laws have become as quaint as "No chickens inside the city limits." and "No spitting near a woman" laws. :nonod: Relics of a bygone day.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
However, a search for "radio" and "ultralight" found no references to the "radio required" rules under discussion. It may be an amendment or something, but it's not part of the City Code of Iowa City.
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Agreed. I reviewed Iowa City Code as well, and there's no requirement for a radio. Further, there's no provision allowing the airport management to promulgate rules which are then enforceable by the code.

So his statement that not having a radio is a violation of code is extremely unlikely.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Nowadays, few people answer UNICOM, because fewer and fewer Midwest airports have FBOs. "Attendants" to watch as you fuel have become as scarce as hen's teeth. And, heck, I can't even remember the last time a "line boy" came out and parked us.
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Hmm... You need to come up to Wisconsin more. Linemen at MWC and MSN will park you, and RYV unicom will welcome you to their field even if all you called was "Watertown Traffic..." :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hmm... You need to come up to Wisconsin more. Linemen at MWC and MSN will park you, and RYV unicom will welcome you to their field even if all you called was "Watertown Traffic..." :yes:
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Only one field around here that does that, and only when Stush is on duty.

"Connellsville traffic, Cessna 1234 entering left downwind for 14, Connellsville."

"Hey Dan, how ya been? You gonna need fuel?"

:smile:
 
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