How FAA Medical Policies INCREASE Risk

ScottM said:
For profit medical care is ruining American health care. Has been for a long time. The managed care made it even worse!
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I don't think that's the case. I think insurance/liability is what is killing it. Though it's more like a big ball of twine with every little cost affecting every other part of it. Get rid of liability costs go down, but then again with no worries about getting sued, it ends up being "hey, are we putting in a liver or a kidney?" "Uh, does it matter, I've got a tee time at three, just make it work."
 
ScottM said:
For profit medical care is ruining American health care. Has been for a long time. The managed care made it even worse!
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We may have to disagree on the first part. I wholeheartedly agree on managed care. I suppose that those who can afford concierge-medicine are better off.

For-profit is not a panacea, nor is it (in and of itself) evil. And I'm personally not convinced that government-led care is any better given the recent VA scandals, some family experiences with Medicare where the care was outright substandard because of the low reimbursement rates, and some experiences that colleagues/friends have had in the UK system. It's more like "which compromise/shortcoming would you rather have". The only system that seems to work well is Tri-Care.
 
ScottM said:
It had been a week and was annoying. FWIW I did not have to pay the $3k, insurance did. Don't you love for profit medical care?
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If it had been going on for a week, then absent some physical findings like an abnormal EKG, your doctor was either liability-paranoid or an idiot for telling you to go to ER. Almost by definition, that will be deemed not an emergency. And if insurance paid $3K, I'd hate to think of what the hospital would have billed you. More likely insurance paid MUCH less than that, and the hospital accepted that as full payment.

Actually, you are extremely lucky that insurance paid for it. In most such instances, coverage is denied (sometimes the determination is even made on medical grounds, not on information a patient could be expected to know) and you have one appeal to get them to reconsider.
 
EdFred said:
I went through the same thing.

ZOMG! Chersts perns!!! Go 2 teh mergcy rm!!!!

Spend the day hooked up to an EKG, and a cat scan to find nothing, everything comes back negative, only to be told it's most likely strained cartilage between the ribs. Gee, maybe because I've been boxing and kickboxing, I might have over done it a little. But ooooooh no, any chest pain equals heart attack. Morons.
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If you knew you have chest pain from boxing and kickboxing, why in the hell did you call a doctor in the first place?:confused: That makes you the bigger moron than they.
 
bullwinkle said:
Really, if somebody calls a doctor and says "I pulled a muscle lifting something", that is "every reason" to suspect a cardiac event, without even an examination?

:mad2:
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You're changing the story. He said pulled muscle in the chest. And he didn't say it was a week ago. Middle-aged male, lifted something heavy and now feels a pulled chest muscle. That's classic heart attack symptoms. Seriously Andy, what do you think she's going to say? Do you really think she's going to dismiss it and run the risk of lawsuit, peer-review and disciplinary action? Not to mention the guilt-trip she'd place on herself if she didn't act when she knew she should have. :nono: There is no way he's not going to the ER.
 
Henning said:
If you knew you have chest pain from boxing and kickboxing, why in the hell did you call a doctor in the first place?:confused: That makes you the bigger moron than they.
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Because after a week I knew it wasn't a bruise, and wanted to make sure it wasn't a cracked rib. Nope, doctors wouldn't even look at me. They heard chest pain, and said I had to go to the ER.
 
I don't know how transparent anyone's personal medical record is but it seems to me that the only people I've ever heard of getting caught falsifying their 3rd class application are those who said there was nothing wrong with them while simultaneously collecting some sort of state or federal disability payments. :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
I don't know how transparent anyone's personal medical record is but it seems to me that the only people I've ever heard of getting caught falsifying their 3rd class application are those who said there was nothing wrong with them while simultaneously collecting some sort of state or federal disability payments. :dunno:
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Aind in that case the FAA was illegally getting information from Social Security. I know of one guy who sued the feds and won.

I have to reiterate. He lost at the supreme court.
 
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I am replying to the post as both a physician and a pilot of high performance aircraft including jet warbirds. I have recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that while not life -threatening will 100% result in denial of my next 3rd class medical certification until the condition has been totally resolved and I am off all medication. My perspective on life and it's priorities have changed and I cannot find any fault in the FAA's concern that pilots health is not a factor in their ability to fly responsibly. Being able to drive safely has no comparison with being able to fly safely. After all - one can easy pull over if one feels ill but that would be impossible flying at 30,000 ft and 300 kts


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EdFred said:
Because after a week I knew it wasn't a bruise, and wanted to make sure it wasn't a cracked rib. Nope, doctors wouldn't even look at me. They heard chest pain, and said I had to go to the ER.
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Even if it was a cracked rib, there's nothing a doctor will do about it except say 'you have a cracked rib, take it easy for a few weeks'. They quit taping my ribs when I was about 12 since the practice apparently created more problems with pneumonia than any other problems it solved. Unless a rib is a displaced break, there's nothing to do with it, and if it's displaced, you will know it with the utmost certainty the moment it happens.
 
Geico266 said:
How does cash keep the DR from reporting the treatment?
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You tell them 'no records', they pocket the cash off the IRS books. Doctors aren't that fond of government intrusion either.

BTW, did you go in saying "I think I cracked a rib kickboxing last week." Or did you say, "My chest hurts."?
 
The system as it is creates too many no-win scenarios for people who are most likely perfectly fit to fly. Like those who foolishly sought treatment for a headache and now have to "prove" they don't have migraines every year or the poor kids who got dragged into a doctor's office and got marked for life with an ADHD diagnosis.... or the guys who are always posting on here about getting busted with pot back in college.

What I actually worry about more are the commercial pilots. Your livelihood, your family's well being, etc are all riding on passing that medical. If that was me, I probably would avoid seeing doctors unless I was sure I was dying...

It would be nice if the FAA would go through their medical regulations and modernize things... maybe for example take a 2014 view of mental health instead of a 1930s view. Maybe for certain things take out the "have you ever in your life...." and make it read "have you in the past 10 years...".

Or better yet for us GA types maybe just get the DL medical passed.
 
If I were a professional 121 pilot I'd seriously consider using my travel bennies to establish a relationship with a physician in another country.

Of course I'd still honestly fill out the medical form.
 
JimNtexas said:
Of course I'd still honestly fill out the medical form.
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He he, sure I'd spend all that effort and money getting health care outside the country and then self ground too. In fact as soon as I got back I'd drive over to the nearest FAA office and turn in my ticket just to be sure. :yes:
 
cowman said:
What I actually worry about more are the commercial pilots. Your livelihood, your family's well being, etc are all riding on passing that medical. If that was me, I probably would avoid seeing doctors unless I was sure I was dying...
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No, when you get the news that there is something wrong flying becomes a much smaller thing to be dealt with later. The weird thing is that it is the #1 question that people ask about.
 
Alexb2000 said:
He he, sure I'd spend all that effort and money getting health care outside the country and then self ground too. In fact as soon as I got back I'd drive over to the nearest FAA office and turn in my ticket just to be sure. :yes:
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By going out of the country you avoid the risk of some incorrect code entered into big brother's database that later sends the FAA in to a massive CYA attack.

All I know about medical codes is that 'they' recently added a few hundred thousand of them to the system. Sounds like a seriously error prone system to me.

You'd still want to honestly answer the FAA's medical questions.
 
Schaps said:
I am replying to the post as both a physician and a pilot of high performance aircraft including jet warbirds. I have recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that while not life -threatening will 100% result in denial of my next 3rd class medical certification until the condition has been totally resolved and I am off all medication. My perspective on life and it's priorities have changed and I cannot find any fault in the FAA's concern that pilots health is not a factor in their ability to fly responsibly. Being able to drive safely has no comparison with being able to fly safely. After all - one can easy pull over if one feels ill but that would be impossible flying at 30,000 ft and 300 kts
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Sorry to read of your medical condition. Best of health to you.

I suspect most private pilots who have an interest in this subject rarely fly above 12,500 ft or faster than 180 kts. Your flying isn't typical of many of us flying folk.

With respect to feeling ill in an airplane vs a car - the issue would seem to boil down to how quickly one goes from realizing a problem has occurred to incapacitation. I am just a layman in these matters, so I only know of medical crisis that seem to fall into two groups: ones where tens of minutes are available and ones where incapacitation happens in seconds. In the latter group I think one finds the cases where the crisis would be fatal even in one's easy chair at home, or those sad cases where cars run off roads due to incapacitation, with often fatal results. With tens of minutes the pilot's options for safely stopping aren't too much worse than the car driver's. (Ballistic parachutes have been used to perform the equivalent of an emergency pull-over, so there is that option short of grounding.)

Since the biggest killer of pilots and their passengers is pilot error, it is clear to me that there is nothing rational about, nor statistical support for, a fixation that has prioritized even minimal resources to examining the health of private pilots. Private pilot's don't need their bodies examined, they need their heads examined. ;)
 
A few random thoughts on medicals.

First, anyone who has been around GA for a few decades knows guys who are flying who absolutely, positively can NOT have a valid medical. And we aren't talking Champ-flyers -- I know a guy right now who is an absolute mess, medically, who continues to fly a personal twin turbine.

Second, anyone who thinks that many doctors who demand cash on the barrel head (insurance and credit cards need not apply) are actually reporting that income needs to buy some swampland I've got for sale. These 15-minute medicals (for $125) represent their fun, off-the-books money.

Finally, if your family's support depends on your medical, you have a huge incentive to live a healthier lifestyle -- and a huge disincentive to report any health issues. And you'd have to be completely nuts to report a mental health problem. (Pun intended.)

Nonetheless, overall, I would bet that the general health of airline pilots today is far better than it was in the heyday of airline travel. Those WWII boys all smoked, didn't exercise, didnt eat right, and they liked their liquor. After what they survived, who could blame them?

So, viewed in perspective, for commercial pilots the system generally works. For those of us who fly bug-smashers, IMHO it's a system that can be worked around by many, ignored by some, and is really nothing but a fun money generator for AMEs. YMMV.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
...A more legit question is, "How many pilots avoid reporting symptoms to their doctors or even visiting their doctors out of fear of FAA consequences?" I bet the number is higher than we all think.
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After the driver's license medical proposal was introduced in Congress, I did a poll in which 39% of forum members who responded said that they would be likely to consult a doctor about health issues more often if the bill passes.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67412
 
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