How do you fund your flying "hobby"?

Matthew K said:
I can understand you there. I just finished reading Squawk 7700, by Peter Buffington. He mentions pilot salaries a lot. One thing that surprised me is that flying freight in a Cessna 414 can have a higher salary than flying a ATR 42 with 50 passengers on it...It amazes me that many people I talk to that run their own aviation business say there is a "Pilot shortage", yet pilots with 4 year degrees have starting salaries with regional airlines at $16,000 according to that book.
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I would disagree that there is a pilot shortage. I think they keep saying that so there isn't a shortage. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the evidence. If they were short on pilots, they would pay them better.
 
Joshuajayg said:
I would disagree that there is a pilot shortage. I think they keep saying that so there isn't a shortage. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the evidence. If they were short on pilots, they would pay them better.
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Exactly. There is no pilot shortage, there is a pay shortage. I know a number of pilots who don't go to the airlines because of the significant pay cut they'd take.
 
My DPE yesterday was pretty funny. After all the paperwork was done he said, "Okay and now you get my advice to all new Commercial pilots. If someone offers you a job flying, don't take it. There's a reason they're offering it to a brand new Commercial pilot, and it's probably not good."

Hahaha. It was good for a chuckle in the office afterward anyway... Haha.
 
Matthew K said:
One thing that surprised me is that flying freight in a Cessna 402 can have a higher salary than flying a ATR 42 with 50 passengers on it...
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Yep, that's nothing new; back in '92 I was a freight dog hauling canceled checks in a C-310R, made $28K/year. I thought I was rich! Then came the next step up the career ladder, hired on at Mesa Airlines as a Beech 1900 FO. $12K/year. Ouch.
 
I build money into our household budget. Usually about $400 a month just to stay current. If I'm doing a rating (like now I'm working on my IR), I got a Credit Card with 21 month no interest balance. Made a big block time purchase and will pay down the balance little by little over the next two years.
 
Joshuajayg said:
I would disagree that there is a pilot shortage. I think they keep saying that so there isn't a shortage. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the evidence. If they were short on pilots, they would pay them better.
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Exactly. Those businesses I mentioned just want to make as much profit as possible by trying to keep a large supply of pilots.
 
labbadabba said:
I build money into our household budget. Usually about $400 a month just to stay current. If I'm doing a rating (like now I'm working on my IR), I got a Credit Card with 21 month no interest balance. Made a big block time purchase and will pay down the balance little by little over the next two years.
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which card is that if you don;t mind me asking?
 
midcap said:
which card is that if you don;t mind me asking?
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Citi Simplicity MasterCard currently has a 21 mo 0% APR. It doesn't have much else for perks but I see it as a short term zero interest loan and will use it just to finance my rating. I'll probably cancel the card when it's paid off.
 
labbadabba said:
Citi Simplicity MasterCard currently has a 21 mo 0% APR. It doesn't have much else for perks but I see it as a short term zero interest loan and will use it just to finance my rating. I'll probably cancel the card when it's paid off.
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thanks!
 
labbadabba said:
I build money into our household budget. Usually about $400 a month just to stay current. If I'm doing a rating (like now I'm working on my IR), I got a Credit Card with 21 month no interest balance. Made a big block time purchase and will pay down the balance little by little over the next two years.
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$400 a month seems fair. I might set a similar budget in order to stay current once I have my license until I buy a plane.
 
I pay for my flying addiction the old fashioned way: I'm cheap, and have a job! I'm a firm believer in owner maintenance and owner-assisted annuals. Thankfully my wife supports me. When I was finishing up my lifelong dream of a PPL in my early 40s, I was debating buying a truck or a plane, and she encouraged me to get the plane instead. Good wife!

So I bought the plane. After I handed over the check, we were talking about it and the seler realized that my wife hadn't seen it. So we went out to the hangar for the introduction . . . Fortunately she approved, likes going places in it, and further supported me when working in my Instrument Rating. It's been nine busy, fun, interesting years since then!

P.S.--did I say I worked my butt off in college, and was working full time as an engineer and going to night school for my Masters while getting my PPL? This stuff ain't cheap . . .
 
Hank S said:
I pay for my flying addiction the old fashioned way: I'm cheap, and have a job! I'm a firm believer in owner maintenance and owner-assisted annuals. Thankfully my wife supports me. When I was finishing up my lifelong dream of a PPL in my early 40s, I was debating buying a truck or a plane, and she encouraged me to get the plane instead. Good wife!

So I bought the plane. After I handed over the check, we were talking about it and the seler realized that my wife hadn't seen it. So we went out to the hangar for the introduction . . . Fortunately she approved, likes going places in it, and further supported me when working in my Instrument Rating. It's been nine busy, fun, interesting years since then!
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Sounds like you picked the right wife! If you don't mind me asking how much did it cost for you to get your Instrument rating? I'm wanting it get it after my Private license.
 
Matthew K said:
Sounds like you picked the right wife! If you don't mind me asking how much did it cost for you to get your Instrument rating? I'm wanting it get it after my Private license.
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I'd tell you if I knew, but that's one if those things I'm afraid to add up . . . I generally cruise at 9 gph, but flying lots of approaches is less, call it ~7 gph. Think I flew about 50-55 hours, plus the written test (2-1/2 hour dive each way), plus the checkride (a little over 2 hours including getting to the DPE and home again, plus his fee). Man, I hate writing all of this out! It sounds expensive.
 
Hank S said:
I'd tell you if I knew, but that's one if those things I'm afraid to add up . . . I generally cruise at 9 gph, but flying lots of approaches is less, call it ~7 gph. Think I flew about 50-55 hours, plus the written test (2-1/2 hour dive each way), plus the checkride (a little over 2 hours including getting to the DPE and home again, plus his fee). Man, I hate writing all of this out! It sounds expensive.
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Haha, that's understandable. Me personally though, I keep a detailed account of all flying expenses probably more as a motivation to get my license in less time than anything.
 
labbadabba said:
Citi Simplicity MasterCard currently has a 21 mo 0% APR. It doesn't have much else for perks but I see it as a short term zero interest loan and will use it just to finance my rating. I'll probably cancel the card when it's paid off.
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Side note: If you don't have any problem with available credit vs income ratio, and the card doesn't have an annual fee, DON'T cancel it.

I'm no big fan of chasing a credit score, at all, nor of debt, but...

Cancellation knocks your credit score. As does closing older accounts (length of credit).

Stuff the thing in a safe or safety deposit box or whatever it takes to leave it totally alone and forget about it after it's paid off.

If it has an annual fee, try hard to get them to "convert" it to whatever card they offer that doesn't have one. The "account" shows up as having been open since the start of the first card, at almost all banks, and therefore doesn't harm your score in any way.

The only reason I care is that many companies (especially insurers) love to use your credit score as one of their many ways to determine your "insurability" so even a small bump in insurance rates adds up over time.

I refuse to chase a score. In fact, all the calculators whine at me that I need MORE outstanding credit, which is bloody annoying. But I do try to keep it high enough that it's zero change on other things like insurance.
 
denverpilot said:
... all the calculators whine at me that I need MORE outstanding credit, which is bloody annoying. But I do try to keep it high enough that it's zero change on other things like insurance.
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Me too. It's a good problem to have!!
 
It's been 4 months since the first post, so I've been rereading this thread.
AKBill said:
Bought a cheap, slow but comfortable Beech Sport 20 years ago. Got my A&P ticket, park outside, rent a hanger for 1 month every year to work on my "little Beech". Work in a Silver mine to pay the bills.
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I was wondering how you went about getting your A&P Certificate? I'd like to get it but you need over 2000 hours of experience before you can be signed off, and since I don't want to do it as my day job, I don't see how I could build that much time within a reasonable span.
 
Matthew K said:
It's been 4 months since the first post, so I've been rereading this thread.

I was wondering how you went about getting your A&P Certificate? I'd like to get it but you need over 2000 hours of experience before you can be signed off, and since I don't want to do it as my day job, I don't see how I could build that much time within a reasonable span.
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I spent 4 years active Navy working at an overhaul level maintenance facility, then spent 10 years working in the reserves in a P-3B squadron.

In my Navy carrier I worked on the T-2 Buckeye, A-4 Skyhawk, T-39 Subreliner and the P-3 Orion. All have been retired from active service, except the Sabreliner. I've been involved in aircraft maintenance since I got out of high school. Got my A&P at age 40. The squadron I was in worked with the FAA, we had classes and practical test to complete, this allowed us to take the written and practical test.

Surely not the fastest or best way to earn an A&P, but I had fun doing it....")
 
Matthew K said:
I'm currently in flight training. Since I one day hope to own a twin piston aircraft EX: Cessna 310, I've started to wonder how I could help pay for that or for other types of planes that can cost considerable amounts in running costs.

My question is, what have you had to do to afford flying? Have you had to make sacrifices when it comes to other toys or housing? Have you started a side business to fund your flying? What career path are you in that's enabled you to have your own personal plane? Etc.

Edit: Please mention the type of plane you own. I'd also be especially interested about how if anyone on here has personal planes that cost them 80k+.

Disclaimer: I know about partial ownership options, but for the sake of this post, please only talk about how you've afforded to completely own your own plane.
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I've put my entire life's savings into flying. I should add, aviation isn't a hobby for me, my dad's dream is for me to become a pilot, like him. Flying is tied with music, which is a stress relief as my number 1 passion in life. I've put every cent I've ever made into those two. That's how I've afforded it, working two jobs, driving a price of **** car to work, and just doing it. So can you, but if you wanna buy a plane, you're gonna need a solid career.
 
Jim Case said:
I've put my entire life's savings into flying. I should add, aviation isn't a hobby for me, my dad's dream is for me to become a pilot, like him. Flying is tied with music, which is a stress relief as my number 1 passion in life. I've put every cent I've ever made into those two. That's how I've afforded it, working two jobs, driving a price of **** car to work, and just doing it. So can you, but if you wanna buy a plane, you're gonna need a solid career.
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Yea just about every extra penny I get goes into my flight training as well...Good luck to you man, it's a lot of work but hopefully a lot of fun. A friends son I know just got his first commercial airline flying job about 4-5 months ago, and he enjoys it as well.
 
Oh, OK. Well I... well actually almost (there are some things that even I simply will not do) anything for a buck. You know, foundations, framing, bodywork, auto restoration, hotrods, cabinet maker, aircraft mechanic, avionics installation, anvil repair, Boat detailing, etc. Just pretty much everyday type stuff. And I stay pretty busy, even though I try to price myself out of work. I'm the most expensive company around, but I still get calls that result in me losing more time which could be committed to aviation.
 
bluerooster said:
Oh, OK. Well I... well actually almost (there are some things that even I simply will not do) anything for a buck. You know, foundations, framing, bodywork, auto restoration, hotrods, cabinet maker, aircraft mechanic, avionics installation, anvil repair, Boat detailing, etc. Just pretty much everyday type stuff. And I stay pretty busy, even though I try to price myself out of work. I'm the most expensive company around, but I still get calls that result in me losing more time which could be committed to aviation.
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If you try to price yourself out and still get hired, you must be pretty good. :)
Rykymus said:
I write Sci Fi novels. A lot of them. I bought a 98 Archer III for $85k during PPL training and paid it off in 2 years. Next plane will be a Malibu Mirage, but I'm gonna have to write a lot more books first.
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Sounds pretty cool. What are some of the books you've wrote?
 
Thx for your Advice Mr Mathew . Are you aware of Partial ownership opportunities for CIRRUS 22 in LZU or PDK
 
Matthew K said:
That's a lot of time for a 10 year old aircraft.
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True, but it was a flight school aircraft, so that's expected. I don't know what SR20s are going for but that strikes me as a pretty low price for one.

I seem to remember that Cirrus aircraft had a life limit of 20,000 hours, which is still a long ways off even at 7,500. I don't necessarily shy away from high time aircraft as they are often in very good condition due to their high use, however it's worth noting that higher time airplanes are harder to sell, which is why they're cheaper. There's just a smaller market.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
True, but it was a flight school aircraft, so that's expected. I don't know what SR20s are going for but that strikes me as a pretty low price for one.

I seem to remember that Cirrus aircraft had a life limit of 20,000 hours, which is still a long ways off even at 7,500. I don't necessarily shy away from high time aircraft as they are often in very good condition due to their high use, however it's worth noting that higher time airplanes are harder to sell, which is why they're cheaper. There's just a smaller market.
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Thx Ted Thats a good infp on 20K Hrs life Time . Do you have any advice on what to look for when buying such aircraft ?
 
Rahul Padival said:
Thx Ted Thats a good infp on 20K Hrs life Time . Do you have any advice on what to look for when buying such aircraft ?
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I do not. I'm not a Cirrus expert.
 
I have a kid in private school and heading to college, a wife that wants to move but can't decide where or when and a salary cut thanks to H-1B competition. I struggle to find the money to stay current right now. Last flight was almost 45 days ago. I flew a lot around the eclipse and still paying that off. Beautiful weather, maybe I'll try to get up this weekend...

On an inflation adjusted basis, my salary is up 15% in 15 years. Contracting rates are down 57%, less than half what they were 15 years ago. Good news for business. Bad news for struggling pilots.
 
My customers pay for most of my flying. This spring, after buying a 182 for a tow plane & a used two place glider I started a small soaring business. I've been a CFI/CFIG forever & decided to put my certificates to work. I'm lucky enough to have a high income at my day job, live debt free, & self funded the business.

So far our first year has been fairly successful. We haven't made much profit but the business pretty much paid it's own way. As it grows in the future, I hope to retire at my day job, & run the soaring business until I'm unable to fly due to age or medical issues.

I look forward to working at the soaring business each weekend but it is a lot of hard work. My wife says it will keep me young.

My wife & I really enjoy having the 182 for our travels too. Another bonus.

I'm looking forward to doing our income taxes this spring to see the net result of our efforts. I'm tired of paying so much personal income tax. Hopefully, the business will help decrease our tax burden.
 
saddletramp said:
I'm looking forward to doing our income taxes this spring to see the net result of our efforts. I'm tired of paying so much personal income tax. Hopefully, the business will help decrease our tax burden.
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Anytime it doesn’t, just buy a new crate engine for the 182 before the end of the year. LOL. That’ll take care of any profit you earned! :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I seem to remember that Cirrus aircraft had a life limit of 20,000 hours, which is still a long ways off even at 7,500.
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According to the TCDS the life limit on the Cirrus is 12,000 hours. That still leaves more life left than probably 99% of pilot/owners will ever fly. But the 12k hour limit is something to consider when assessing value.

According to the ad posted, the 10 year parachute repack is being addressed so that shouldn't be a concern for the new owner for another 10 years.
 
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