How do I do this?

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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Maybe I am making this harder than needs be. I want to go to airport X with no IAPs. The weather is marginal VFR, visibility is 5 mi. but about 1600' ceilings. Can I fly to airport Y with an ILS, about 12 miles away, shoot the ILS to about 1000' agl but divert to the nearby airport X? Is this OK? Is it a bad idea? How does one make the request to STC. Airport Y is a towered field. Terrain is flat.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Maybe I am making this harder than needs be. I want to go to airport X with no IAPs. The weather is marginal VFR, visibility is 5 mi. but about 1600' ceilings. Can I fly to airport Y with an ILS, about 12 miles away, shoot the ILS to about 1000' agl but divert to the nearby airport X? Is this OK? Is it a bad idea? How does one make the request to STC. Airport Y is a towered field. Terrain is flat.
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If the terrain is flat and there are no tall towers, windmills, or other obstructions along or near the route from airport Y to airport X, then I don't see a problem. Assuming airport Y isn't a Bravo: if the ceilings are reported as 1600 and you're down to 1000 on the ILS, you can cancel IFR and go your merry way. If airport Y is untowered, you can switch to X's CTAF on the spot, otherwise you'll have to stay with Y (approach or tower) until out of their airspace or they send you over to advisory.

All this assumes no complications, like ragged bases or scud that might make one hesitant to cancel IFR.
 
azure said:
If the terrain is flat and there are no tall towers, windmills, or other obstructions along or near the route from airport Y to airport X, then I don't see a problem. Assuming airport Y isn't a Bravo: if the ceilings are reported as 1600 and you're down to 1000 on the ILS, you can cancel IFR and go your merry way. If airport Y is untowered, you can switch to X's CTAF on the spot, otherwise you'll have to stay with Y (approach or tower) until out of their airspace or they send you over to advisory.

All this assumes no complications, like ragged bases or scud that might make one hesitant to cancel IFR.
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If conditions will permit, you can also cancel IFR and proceed Special VFR.
 
Skip Miller said:
If conditions will permit, you can also cancel IFR and proceed Special VFR.
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No need. It's tight, but 1000 or 1100 AGL barely meets VFR requirements in Class E, even in "congested areas."

What the OP proposes is done routinely around the Bay Area to poke through marine layer without a GPS. Pick an airport with an ILS such as Moffett or San Jose, cancel IFR once 500 below the ceiling, then proceed VFR to the destination.
 
Should be nuthin to it. Nice to let em know well ahead of time you plan on canceling when you get underneath and why. That could move you up in the Approach sequence if they have some traffic.
 
Not a problem,when you break out request deviation to the other airport.
 
frfly172 said:
Not a problem,when you break out request deviation to the other airport.
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I'd let them know a little before that :D


Just let the controller know, then a quickie reminder to tower when they hand you off.


But as the others said it's not that uncommon of a thing to do
 
Skip Miller said:
If conditions will permit, you can also cancel IFR and proceed Special VFR.
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Only possible where there is controlled airspace to the surface. I know of at least one field with an ILS where that would not be possible.

Also: if field Y is uncontrolled, you don't even need to let them know what you are doing, though it is generally a good idea. And if you do let them know what you're doing, tell them way ahead of time. Don't spring a "diversion" on them, or it becomes a case of an aircraft "not reaching its intended destination", which according to at least one FSDO inspector who gave me a somewhat unpleasant grilling (different circumstances), requires paperwork on ATC's part and a followup by an ASI.
 
Better technique would be to file to where you are going with the other airport with an ILS as the alternate. This assumes the MVAs are below the ceilings. Since you don't have MVAs check MEAs and MORAs.

By being upfront with ATC about where you actually want to go you'll save having to explain it later. Also you avoid the scud run that doing it your way sets up.

If the weather is too low to get in this way then maybe it wasn't meant to be. Of course you could still go to the ILS airport and scud run later if that's what it comes to. Watch out for airspace and towers...
 
Skip Miller said:
If conditions will permit, you can also cancel IFR and proceed Special VFR.
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Special VFR is available ONLY "within the airspace contained in the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport" (FAR 91.17)

IOW, SVFR is not available out in the boonies between airports. Get down below 1200' agl and you are in Class G where one mile visibility and clear of clouds is the rule.

Bob Gardner
 
People do this quite often up by me, and they often just state their intention to the controller and they always seem to accommodate.
 
JustinD said:
People do this quite often up by me, and they often just state their intention to the controller and they always seem to accommodate.
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Exactly. Tell the controller what you want/need and they will usually work with you.

I did something similar recently coming back IFR to Chesapeake. There were afternoon T-storms building up and one sprouted up right on the FAF for the ILS 5 for CPK. Ceiling was 2k. After a brief discussion with Approach about the location of the cell, I asked for the RNAV to Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) and once I was below the ceiling, I cancelled IFR and flew 5 miles to enter the downwind for 5 at CPK.
 
If you have VFR conditions below the layer then cancel IFR and maintain VFR. If the approach is to a towered field then of course you'll need to tell tower your intentions.
 
I think this thread might be a great example of why it's ok to ask the same question multiple times. I'm pretty sure (but can't find) a previous thread on this subject. it's a question without any unique phrases that limit the results to just this question.
 
As already repeatedly stated, yes, you absolutely can do this. However, you need to be careful because you not only need to comply with the VFR cloud clearance rules, but also the minimum altitude rules. Sometimes the two combined make it difficult to do this legally.

A 1600 AGL cloud layer is in Class E in most of the U.S. That means you have to be 500 feet below the clouds, or 1100 AGL. which is fine in sparsely populated areas, but in a congested area easily becomes difficult as there are undoubtedly numerous antenna towers and such that rise above 100 AGL within 2000 feet horizontally. Further, what is the definition of a "congested area"? Only case law establishes that, but there was a popular case where essentially three or four houses at an intersection was deemed to be "congested".

This type of reasoning is a favorite topic of mine with students. Really brings together the various rules.
 
When I worked as a controller at an Air Force base there was a grass strip about 2-3 northwest of the base. Pilots would shoot the ILS to the south and cancel when they broke out, and scoot over to the grass strip. This was in IFR conditions at the base.
 
They do it regularly going to 52F. KAFW has approaches and they circle to 52F. Everyone know it.

If it is too low, they land and park at KAFW. I think the FBO knows this and is accommodating.
 
If in class G during daylight hours you only need to remain clear of the clouds.
 
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