How did you prep for your oral exam?

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48dodge

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48dodge
After doing well on my written I figured studying for my oral was going to be a piece of cake. I'm just starting to realize how much I need to know. I understand that I whatever I don't know I should at least know where to get the answer. Any tips would be appreciated. I've been studying the small blue ASA book so far.
 
48dodge said:
After doing well on my written I figured studying for my oral was going to be a piece of cake. I'm just starting to realize how much I need to know. I understand that I whatever I don't know I should at least know where to get the answer. Any tips would be appreciated. I've been studying the small blue ASA book so far.
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Even though the ASA oral exam books are more "question - answer" than scenario based like the real oral exam will probably be, I found they cover the material well. I'd combine that with looking through the technical subject areas of the PTS to be sure you have it all covered.
 
The best way to prep is for your instructor to give you a practice oral based on the way your examiner will do it. Those "Oral Test Guides" aren't really worth much any more. While there's a lot of good material in those "Oral Prep" books, the FAA guidance on practical tests no longer calls for those simple Q&A methods, but rather goes for "situationally based testing."

For example, instead of asking you what the VFR weather mins are in Class E airspace, the examiner may ask you whether or not today's weather is good enough to make your planned XC flight under VFR, and how you came to that determination. This will test, in a more realistic manner, not only your rote knowledge of 91.155, but also your ability to apply that knowledge to a practical situation, not to mention your ability to read and interpret all the available weather data, as well as determining from the sectional what airspace you'll be in so you know which paragraph of 91.155 applies along each part of your route. Those old-style Q&A books can't prepare you for that -- only a good instructor familiar with the concept of situationally based testing can.

So, for an IR test, the examiner may look at your flight plan, and ask you why the Alternate block is blank -- and have you justify that answer based on the regs and the weather. Or, if there is an airport there, ask you why you needed to put it there, and how you know it qualifies as a legal alternate today, which requires reference to weather, regs, NOTAMs, and the Terminal Procedures book. This is very different from the old days where an examiner would simply ask you "What's the required weather at your destination to not file an alternate? Can you use this approach as an alternate? What are the standard alternate minimums? Are the alternate minimums at this airport nonstandard?" and makes you think and analyze, not just parrot.

Now, there are still a few old-school examiners who pull out the Oral Test Prep book and start asking questions from it, but they are getting much fewer and farther between. Your instructor should be familiar with the testing styles of the local examiners, so s/he should be able to help you prepare, and give you a practice oral that reasonably accurately reflects that style.
 
I picked my CFI because I liked his style. He didn't take many students (primary gig these days is A&P on a B-25 the operator of my flight school owns) but I knew he was going to teach me how to fly the way it made sense to me. I'm a hands-on, mechanically inclined kind of guy. I learned so much from him about how and why planes work, how to handle emergencies and how to fly in the real world - not just to prep for a test. He's a 40k hour pilot with over 10k teaching and flies everything from helicopters to gyro's and while I was getting my PPL he took 2 weeks off and got his hot air balloon pilots license.

That said, he kinda stunk at the PTS stuff. :) I think he really only took students that he knew could handle the book work. Sure, I brought some material to him for his thoughts and he got me on track, but he was extremely busy keeping the entire flight schools fleet of planes running including the B-25 so he wasn't the kind of CFI you see lounging in the ready room waiting for a new student to stroll in.

For me, I read voraciously, watched a lot of youtube videos, asked a lot of questions on this and other forums, took a lot of practice test questions and when something didn't make sense I worked on it until it did. There's just no substititue for that.

These videos were very helpful for me to get some context from real DPE's on what kind of stuff most folks struggle with during the checkride. I watched them all a few times and my oral was very similar. Every DPE has their own style, but the thing is - the oral is an open book test and when you look at the PTS you know exactly what they are and have to ask you. No reason to have any suprises.

Check these videos out - hopefully you find them helpful as you wind down your studying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVE-gIeZUpk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xz0kfBvEp4

...and the one probably every one has seen...it's a little dry and looks like it's a good 15 years old perhaps...but the content is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr483zBbQKw
 
48dodge said:
After doing well on my written I figured studying for my oral was going to be a piece of cake. I'm just starting to realize how much I need to know. I understand that I whatever I don't know I should at least know where to get the answer. Any tips would be appreciated. I've been studying the small blue ASA book so far.
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You can easily get ready all by yourself. The first thing to know is the oral part of the checkride is not to RETEST or have you spew memory stuff. The point of the oral is to test you for your 'attitude' and your 'focus' and to see if you cleaned up the questions you missed on the written.

That's why you are allowed to bring the FAR/AIM (make sure you have a current copy and its got bookmarks you put there for quick lookup). And any other materials and tools you like to use and refer too - you will not be given a lot of time to look up something so you should know where to look quickly.

The DPE wants to know that you know where to find info. You may also be asked to look at a sectional and explain a few things, and possibly do a flight plan leg in front of him/her. Remember, they don't wanna drag it out...it gets largely down to how well you answer. If they see a 'hole' that's when they dig down and grill harder.

You will get questions that are more essay answer level, they don't want you to feed back the multi-choice answers to written test questions. They know you took that test already.

So, for example, you may get asked - What do you do to prepare for a flight...

Part of the answer is weather (and what you check), part is the limits and performance of your aircraft (v speeds, takeoff/landing numbers based on DA), and part is knowing the AF/D for the takeoff, waypoints if landing, and destination....he wants to know that you know to check NOTAMS, get a weather briefing from WXBRIEF, and your fuel requirements.

The rest of the oral is taken up checking your logbooks for the mins, verifying your docs and him/her telling you what the whole checkride entails and how it can be passed and what happens if you fail.

At the end, he/she will ask you - is it safe to fly today? If you say yes, you will go out and fly, if not, say why... and fly on another day.
 
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Ron's often referred to check ride advice....

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=210799&postcount=1

Pay attention to the advice about the pencil. It is too easy to "over answer" the question and paint yourself into a bad corner. Keep it short, sweet, and on point.

Mock Oral exams can be invaluable. Find other CFI's who are familiar with your examiner and ask them to conduct the Mock Oral. This is a great way to get used to the process, take the edge off the nerves, and discover knowledge areas that need a bit of polish.
 
I agree with Cap'n Rod. A lot of my checkride orals were scenario based. Know the numbers(weather minimums, required equipment for VFR flight, etc...) but know how to APPLY it in an actual situation. For some of the simple Q & A questions the blue ASA book is a great start. Be sure to read your airplanes POH and know your airplane pretty thoroughly.

It really helps to know the DPE's style. Every examiner is different and some ask pretty in depth questions. Make sure you ask your instructor about the DPE or have him put you in touch with someone that has had that DPE. For my private, the first thing my examiner said to me was, "Here's a piece of paper, write down every electric motor in your 172 while I go get a cup of coffee."
 
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I used the Practical Test Standards as my guide when studying for the entire checkride. I had the blue ASA Oral Exam Guide as well as various other course material with which to study.

The PTS was my bible.
 
48dodge said:
After doing well on my written I figured studying for my oral was going to be a piece of cake. I'm just starting to realize how much I need to know. I understand that I whatever I don't know I should at least know where to get the answer. Any tips would be appreciated. I've been studying the small blue ASA book so far.
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As Ron said above...a thorough practice oral exam with someone who is familiar with the DPE's style is the best.

Mike
 
I used the ASA oral exam guides for my three checkrides. I also bought the King Schools practical test courses and watched the mock checkrides.
 
Don't waste your time on those oral test books IMO. Sit down with your instructor and have him give you a mock checkride. Chances are your CFI already knows the DPE and knows what kinds of questions he lkes to ask. My flight school does a full mock checkride (oral and flight portion) with the Chief CFI before they get sent off for the real checkride.
 
jordane93 said:
Don't waste your time on those oral test books IMO. Sit down with your instructor and have him give you a mock checkride. Chances are your CFI already knows the DPE and knows what kinds of questions he lkes to ask. My flight school does a full mock checkride (oral and flight portion) with the Chief CFI before they get sent off for the real checkride.
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It is useful to find out who the DPE is and what that persons quirks and methods are, but I found the mock checkride a waste of time and money. Nothing from the mock oral ended up in the checkride.
 
CTLSi said:
It is useful to find out who the DPE is and what that persons quirks and methods are, but I found the mock checkride a waste of time and money. Nothing from the mock oral ended up in the checkride.
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It would be incredibly difficult to give such a poor mock oral exam that nothing you said overlapped with the real oral exam. If you experienced that, you had an utter failure for a mock exam administrator, or a DPE who hand-waived the entire oral. Both are unlikely.
 
CTLSi said:
You can easily get ready all by yourself.
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Not only is that a practical impossibility, it is a regulatory impossibility, too, since your instructor cannot endorse you for the test without taking steps to confirm you are prepared to pass the test.
 
...I never did a mock oral with anyone and my DPE said it was one of the best he'd seen. Everyone is different. I'm a 40 something professional who knows how to prepare for this kind of stuff. I don't know how old you are or what your experience is with situations like this but it's hard to say what suits you best.

Per Ron's advice - talk to your CFI. I spent time with mine and we'd start talking about something and he'd just laugh..."...you know this stuff better than some of the CFI's teaching ground school out here...". So, my CFI and I didn't have to do a mock oral - he knew I'd be prepared based on the 8 months we spent flying together.

Your CFI will be able to get a read on what you are having trouble with and how to best solve for those problems. Like I said, everyone is different...some people can do the ground school work, get the test done and prep for the oral without much intervention...some people need a lot of help. Most are somewhere in between. Hopefully your CFI has had enough students to be able to make the right suggestions to you.

Good luck!
 
CTLSi said:
It is useful to find out who the DPE is and what that persons quirks and methods are, but I found the mock checkride a waste of time and money. Nothing from the mock oral ended up in the checkride.
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I would take that up with the CFI that did your mock checkride. I highly doubt that nothing from your mock ride was on your actual checkride. Maybe I'm just spoiled with great instructors but each of my mock checkrides helped me prepare for the real ride and the Chief CFI even caught some mistakes and told me to fix them before I go for the actual checkride.
 
asechrest said:
I used the Practical Test Standards as my guide when studying for the entire checkride. I had the blue ASA Oral Exam Guide as well as various other course material with which to study.

The PTS was my bible.
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That's how I prepped my son for the oral. Made him create an outline with everything addressed by the PTS, fleshing it out with the details. And don't forget chart review....study those legends (and where to find them during oral) and understand the airspace depictions. Know what that translates to in real world course of action when the weather deteriorated.
 
Ron Levy said:
For example, instead of asking you what the VFR weather mins are in Class E airspace, the examiner may ask you whether or not today's weather is good enough to make your planned XC flight under VFR, and how you came to that determination. This will test, in a more realistic manner, not only your rote knowledge of 91.155, but also your ability to apply that knowledge to a practical situation, not to mention your ability to read and interpret all the available weather data, as well as determining from the sectional what airspace you'll be in so you know which paragraph of 91.155 applies along each part of your route. Those old-style Q&A books can't prepare you for that -- only a good instructor familiar with the concept of situationally based testing can.
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This right there. My favorite, FAVORITE, instructional tool is a piece of paper with a bubbly circle drawn on it and the word "cloud" written in bold letters. I get a student coming in and say they are good at flight planning and I throw that in the middle of their planned route. Usually the cloud extends 1000 feet below their planned route, and 2000 above their planned route. Sometimes, the cloud abuts some mountains, forcing them to deal with class B, or some other type of thing they have to deal with. It teaches them so much and all it costs is a scrap piece of paper and some ink.
 
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These guys all hit the nail on the head. Probably because we have all been through one too many! My two cents to add that I didn't see mentioned is talking with people that have done the checkride with that examiner. We used to ask our students if they would write a short little summery on their checkride for us. It's a little sneaky but nothing students don't debrief with us afterwards anyways. One example was in a previous post about anti icing systems on aircraft. The trick question ours liked to give was,"do you add flaps during icing conditions while landing?" I made sure all my students knew the answer was no, why, and where to find it.
 
I really appreciate all of the feedback guys. I can't wait to get back to a computer and check some of those links out a little more. Your responses are definitely helping me feel better about the exam. And Bob, I'm rereading your book Say Again, Please. I haven't flown much in the last month and a half. I'm at an uncontrolled field so dealing with atc gets a little rusty. Your book helps knock the rust off.
 
Ron Levy said:
The best way to prep is for your instructor to give you a practice oral based on the way your examiner will do it.
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Agree. My old crusty guy debriefed every student after the oral, and from that over the years he build a pretty damned good checklist and method for preparing his students for the oral. And by continuing to do it, he kept up with what the DPEs were stressing at the time.

For instance, the DPE had recently taken up scuba diving when I went for the ride, and was drilling candidates extensively on the rules for diving and flying. We were prepared.
 
Meh, I like the ASA oral books, cost 8 - 10 bucks or so on Amazon and small enough to fit in a cargo pocket. I carried mine with me and pulled it out every chance I got.
 
Ask a few people who recently passed to try to get a read as to the DPE's questioning format.
 
Watched several of the youtube videos recommended. Definitely put me at ease for the oral. I do have some more prepping before I feel comfortable, though. I made the mistake of searching for checkrides. The few that I found I can't believe the guys passed. 2 of the guys didn't know what the PTS maneuvers were. One guy didn't know what steep turns were and even after being told still didn't do a steep turn.
 
48dodge said:
I made the mistake of searching for checkrides. The few that I found I can't believe the guys passed. 2 of the guys didn't know what the PTS maneuvers were. One guy didn't know what steep turns were and even after being told still didn't do a steep turn.
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Were they fake videos?
Or did Pete Flemming finally get around to filming his checkride?
 
The mock oral was a rehash of the sectionals, a little on weather, a little on mechanics, and a little on the FAR/AIM. The flying part didn't happen due to weather.

The real checkride oral focused on the three questions I missed on the written, no sectionals, no mechanics, more on the cross country planning (he wasnt interested in the weather reports I had printed). The bulk was on 'what would you do' scenarios flying into icing, running out of fuel, losing the radio, passenger briefing, and preflight checks.

The flying part was also special. I was not allowed to use my cross country plan, of course, but had to fly the first two waypoints by pilotage/dead reckoning, and within the time specified on the navlog. In fact, the entire flight was by pilotage.

Then I had to fly for 45mins under hood, do all the turns, stalls, slow flight on the way back to my home field. Since I had to first pick the DPE up at a Class Charlie airport that morning, I had to reperform my preflight in front of him there, and make the radio calls to get into the air and to the first waypoint...continue to fly the cross country and divert where he wanted to get back to my homefield.

Once there, do all the landings, takeoffs, and an emergency landing with engine off with a near full pattern Unicom situation. After the checkride, I had to drive him back to the Class Charlie airport by car on my way back home.

So, if you want to give this guy advise on the oral for the checkride, tell him to be ready to answer questions and describe scenarios and decision making he likely won't have in a mock oral. And be ready to fly with or without instruments for navigation, and possibly be asked to do things he considers his weakest skills.
 
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Having just passed my oral 4 days ago, I can give you a bit of "updated advice". These are based on my DPE so it might not exactly apply to you, but my examiner mainly asked the big important questions, like airspace, aircraft systems, and flight documents. Just remember to stay calm and if you're not sure about a question- safety first. I mainly just studied the as a oral guide.
 
And as CTLSi stated, a lot of it was, "what would you do questions".
 
CTLSi said:
...So, if you want to give this guy advise on the oral for the checkride, tell him to be ready to answer questions and describe scenarios and decision making he likely won't have in a mock oral.
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Well..if you did do a mock oral, it was poorly done. Too bad, :rolleyes2:

A GOOD mock oral is done in a way that very closely resembles the way that the DPE will do it and a good CFI will know exactly how to present it that way. Makes the actual checkride oral much easier for the student.

Mike
 
ASA guide when I studied for my IR. And of course have the FAR/AIM and the appropriate FAA "Handbooks" and circulars available on your iPad or tablet.

And I watched those YouTube videos to get a sense for what the DPE expects. One of those videos was a recording of a prep session given by Andy Munnis, who is a fantastic DPE. I met him at a local pilot meeting. Great guy.

Anyway, hopefully your instructor knows who will likely be your DPE and knows how that DPE works and what kinds of questions s/he prefers.
 
MikeELP said:
Well..if you did do a mock oral, it was poorly done. Too bad, :rolleyes2:

A GOOD mock oral is done in a way that very closely resembles the way that the DPE will do it and a good CFI will know exactly how to present it that way. Makes the actual checkride oral much easier for the student.

Mike
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Really? How does the CFI know what the DPE is gonna ask? Are they collaborating? If so, they are violating the ethics rules.
 
CTLSi said:
Really? How does the CFI know what the DPE is gonna ask? Are they collaborating? If so, they are violating the ethics rules.
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Many DPEs will allow instructors to sit in on oral exams. Usually the student has been trained by a different CFI. Our preferred DPE said that we could sit in anytime we wanted as long as the student approved it.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Many DPEs will allow instructors to sit in on oral exams. Usually the student has been trained by a different CFI. Our preferred DPE said that we could sit in anytime we wanted as long as the student approved it.
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That's not the same as arranging for, and aligning with what questions will be asked, and what maneuvers will be flown on a checkride.

DPEs are there to assess the skill and knowledge of each applicant, not rubber stamps what a given CFI hands them to look at...

They are agents for the FAA, not glad-handers for the CFIs.
 
CTLSi said:
That's not the same as arranging for, and aligning with what questions will be asked, and what maneuvers will be flown on a checkride.

DPEs are there to assess the skill and knowledge of each applicant, not rubber stamps what a given CFI hands them to look at...

They are agents for the FAA, not glad-handers for the CFIs.
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You are again showing your ignorance.

:rolleyes2:

Mike
 
This was the case with my CFI and DPE. The CFI assumed I knew all the basics but he also knew the areas that this particular DPE focused on and a few of the "trick" questions that he liked to ask.

I chose not to have my CFI sit in on the oral because I thought it would be a distraction.

I also thought the mock checkride (including oral) was very useful.

YMMV

NJP_MAN said:
Many DPEs will allow instructors to sit in on oral exams. Usually the student has been trained by a different CFI. Our preferred DPE said that we could sit in anytime we wanted as long as the student approved it.
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CTLSi said:
Really? How does the CFI know what the DPE is gonna ask? Are they collaborating? If so, they are violating the ethics rules.
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Because it's right there on the PTS.

It's not going to be the exact same question, phrased exactly the same, but it can cover the same material, and asked in the same scenario based way.
 
CTLSi said:
Really? How does the CFI know what the DPE is gonna ask? Are they collaborating? If so, they are violating the ethics rules.
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:rolleyes2:

Perhaps they know because they've sent dozens of students to a particular DPE for a checkride and those students all come back and share their experience??

No one has to be in-cahoots for that to take place. Most schools ask students to do a write up of their experience so they can share it with the next round of folks about to go to a checkride.

Also, a CFI should know what a DPE is going to ask...and so should every student. Go look at the PTS.
 
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