How 'bout discussing the KSEE loc D <g>

[Dave Siciliano]

Wonder if I could ask a couple questions about this approach and departure.
I've made it many times and still wonder if I'm approaching it in the most efficient manner. We discussed this at SIMCOM and had a lot of fun!

Here's a link to the AOPA site with the approach; the Localizer D is the one I have always come in on.

http://www.aopa.org/members/airports/ustprocs.cfm?id=SEE

Notice, one comes off the airway (V-66) at Baret, intercepts the localizer and begins the approach. It's a step down approach and requires excellent speed control on the descent. If one begins the approach off the airway at normal cruise speed, it can be difficult to slow while descending later in the approach unless one really pulls the throttles back on the way down. In the P-Baron, I prefer to get approach flaps in at Baret so I can stay under gear speed with some power.

Anyway, I came in one evening in rain with low ceilings and broke out very close to the end of runway 27 as the approach shows. Tower told me the wind had shifted and was now out of the south (180 at 15 gusting to 22) and suggested I land 17. The ATIS had had the winds more out of the west.

Wondered how some of you savants would have handled that situation.

Best,

Dave

 

[gprellwitz]

Not a savant, but I'd cross over runway 17, enter a right downwind for 17, and land normally. Note that circling is prohibited NE of 27R/17.

(BTW, this is what Leslie says too, but I'm in front of the computer as we eat dinner. Sad, isn't it )

 

[bbchien]

Low ceilings, 90 degree crosswind and 5300 feet in front of me? I land straight ahead. If my speed control is good and the 180 @ 15 G 22 is too much, UP comes the power on the upwind engine- about 100 rpms, and I use 4000 instead of 3,000.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Pretty busy approach, huh <g>. Did you notice what you have to do to get to the MDA? It takes a lot of control to come down, get to the MDA and break out near minimums. It can put you at the end of the runway pretty high.

I kinna did what you did Grant. What I did was fly past runway 17 for between 15 and 20 seconds; then, did a standard rate 270 degree turn to the right. As I completed that turn, the runway was a little left and in front. Keeping the runway in visual sight while turning to the right is difficult in my twin, that's why I timed it and turned standard rate.

Doc, straight in would have been difficult. As with most circle to land approaches, the MDA is pretty close to the end of the runway and it would have been a very aggressive of me to chop throttles and try to drop down. I've done that during the day VMC, but if one is just a bit fast or high, it's a challenge. With the night conditions, rain, displaced threshold, I chose not to do the straight in. If I had and didn't make it, I certainly could have gone around and done standard left traffic back to 27.

Let me ask this: 1. why not turn left at 17, fly to the end and do standard right traffic back to 17? 2. Why not do what Doc suggests except, fly straight down 27 past mid field and do left traffic back to a normal landing on 27?

Best,

Dave

 

[gprellwitz]

Let me ask this: 1. why not turn left at 17, fly to the end and do standard right traffic back to 17?

You certainly could, but at MDA you're already below the normal pattern altitude. Why extend the low-altitude fling and increase the opportunity to lose sight of the runway environment?

Edit: Oops, I just checked the actual altitude, and, presuming you can capture GRIGG, you're at 1200' AGL. Need to stay there until in a normal position to land. Not as low as I thought, but does normal pattern altitude on downwind count as normal position to land? I would think so. Lose 200' in the downwind and, presuming you can keep the runway in sight, yo're golden.

2. Why not do what Doc suggests except, fly straight down 27 past mid field and do left traffic back to a normal landing on 27?

That would certainly work, and keep you from getting into that verboten NE quadrant, but would still leave you with a significant crosswind component.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

If you are looking at FAA charts, what's the black triangle in the upper left corner with the white T in it mean? To the right of that, it says Circling not authorized NE of Rwys 17 and 27R.

When would that apply <g>

Best,

Dave

 

[gprellwitz]

If you are looking at FAA charts, what's the black triangle in the upper left corner with the white T in it mean?

Alternative takeoff minima. Generally don't apply (legally) to part 91, but i the big boys need to follow them, shouldn't that be a hint to us?

To the right of that, it says Circling not authorized NE of Rwys 17 and 27R.

I noted that in my post.

When would that apply <g>

At all times.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

You guys have done excellent! The T of course could mean two things: Take off minimums not standard and /or Departure Procedures are published.

Since you're doing so well, let's look at the Take-off minimums and (obstacle) departure procedures in the front. Here's the text for the field. Explain how you would depart and what you would need to be careful of.

You are departing on 27R

Here's your clearance: xxxx is cleared to D/FW; fly the published departure, then V-66 to Baret and as filed; climb to 3,000 expect 10,000 in 10 minutes: departure freq. is xxxx; call for transponder call when ready to depart.


SAN DIEGO (EL CAJON), CA
GILLESPIE FIELD
TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwys 9L, 9R, 900-2 or std. with a min. climb of 1000' per NM to 1600. Rwy 17, 500-1 or std. with a min. climb of 260' per NM to 800.
Rwys 27L, 27R, CAT A,B 500-1 or std. with a min. climb of 370' per NM to 900. CAT C,D 2500-2 or std. with a min. climb of 370' per NM to 2500. Rwy 35, 1300-2 or std. with a min. climb of 460' per NM to 1800.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 9L, 9R, 27L, 27R, climbing right turn. Rwys 17, 35, climbing left turn.
All aircraft climb via heading 165° and MZB R-076 to MZB VORTAC.


Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

Stupid question - maybe just looking for confirmation of what I should know - but it is jake to use the IFR-cert GPS to identify Grigg, isn't it? Or is the specific reference to the Fan Marker mean that, in order to use the Grigg minimums, you have to have a functioning MB receiver?

In any event, in a Bo, I'd fly the approach at 100 or 90, approach flaps out and, if the ceiling were truly *just* above the minimums, or if visibility were poor (and especially at night, when it becomes more difficult, IMHO, to determine flight visibility and ceiling are consistent), I'd likely accept runway 27 and the crosswind.

At 100 knots, the descents are not grievously aggressive.

Slings and arrows accepted at will.

 

[bbchien]

Hmmmn. Thanks for the point out, Dave, I hadn't realized it was at 1187. I'd be making left traffic 27R. No obstructions, I know I've got 1000 but could manage this down to 500 AGL....

15G20 is not that much of a deal in the Seneca and I suspect not in your PBaron as well....your P-Baron is probably placarded for no slips, too....

 

[gprellwitz]

You guys have done excellent! The T of course could mean [...] Departure Procedures are published.

Forgot that one. Thanks!

SAN DIEGO (EL CAJON), CA
GILLESPIE FIELD
TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwys 9L, 9R, 900-2 or std. with a min. climb of 1000' per NM to 1600. Rwy 17, 500-1 or std. with a min. climb of 260' per NM to 800.
Rwys 27L, 27R, CAT A,B 500-1 or std. with a min. climb of 370' per NM to 900. CAT C,D 2500-2 or std. with a min. climb of 370' per NM to 2500. Rwy 35, 1300-2 or std. with a min. climb of 460' per NM to 1800.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 9L, 9R, 27L, 27R, climbing right turn. Rwys 17, 35, climbing left turn.
All aircraft climb via heading 165° and MZB R-076 to MZB VORTAC.

Wouldn't want to try taking off Eastbound!
But on 27R, shouldn't be a problem. Go to the MZB VORTAC, then join V66.

I'd be making left traffic 27R. No obstructions, I know I've got 1000 but could manage this down to 500 AGL....

But Bruce, wouldn't that put you circling NE ot 27R/17. where it is not authorized?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Stupid question - maybe just looking for confirmation of what I should know - but it is jake to use the IFR-cert GPS to identify Grigg, isn't it? Or is the specific reference to the Fan Marker mean that, in order to use the Grigg minimums, you have to have a functioning MB receiver?

In any event, in a Bo, I'd fly the approach at 100 or 90, approach flaps out and, if the ceiling were truly *just* above the minimums, or if visibility were poor (and especially at night, when it becomes more difficult, IMHO, to determine flight visibility and ceiling are consistent), I'd likely accept runway 27 and the crosswind.

At 100 knots, the descents are not grievously aggressive.

Slings and arrows accepted at will.

Spike:

I'll defer to one of the experts. I have a marker and had one in the A-36; so, I never looked into that.

If you're 1200 feet when you break out less than a mile from the runway, wouldn't you need a pretty good rate of descent to get down? At 90 knots; that 1 1/2 miles per minute, right?

I'd call that doable but aggressive on a rainy night with a wet runway, but doable.

Most folks that have flown a lot of these recommend against real aggressive maneuvers. They suggest trying to fly a fuller pattern. This is a circle to land for a reason <g>

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

OK, Dave, this is fun. 27R mandates climbing right turn to 165, thence intercept the 076 to MZB, then back outbound on V66 (not depicted, is that also on the 076?);

Without an IFR-low with V66 depicted, I am at a disadvantage... but I worry about:

1. Keeping reasonably close in my climbing right turn to 165, to avoid the 1280' bump to the east and a little north of the field, and

2. Depending upon how fast I am going, ten minutes worth of 3,000' could put me mighty close to some much higher terrain, so I'd want to maintain my sitch awareness and avoid being the Lear into the mountain. Be ready to ask for my climb in plenty of time to get it clean and safe.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Forgot that one. Thanks!


Wouldn't want to try taking off Eastbound!
But on 27R, shouldn't be a problem. Go to the MZB VORTAC, then join V66.

Please provide a bit more detail. Why is the DP here? What's going to occur as you climb up? Is there an initial rate of climb you should be concerned about?



But Bruce, wouldn't that put you circling NE ot 27R/17. where it is not authorized?

I believe he means he would fly 27R past mid field; then, make left traffic to return to 27R which would keep him well left (south) the the problem area.

Sorry, my other comment is above in your text; I still haven't worked out this quote in a quote stuff <g>

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

Spike:

If you're 1200 feet when you break out less than a mile from the runway, wouldn't you need a pretty good rate of descent to get down? At 90 knots; that 1 1/2 miles per minute, right?

I'd call that doable but aggressive on a rainy night with a wet runway, but doable.

Most folks that have flown a lot of these recommend against real aggressive maneuvers. They suggest trying to fly a fuller pattern. This is a circle to land for a reason <g>

Best,

Dave

Y'know, when I read it here, I suddenly feel... kinda puny.

OK, I'm with you for the easy overflight and right downwind for 17, and I don't have big ol' 310hp lumps out on the wing to obstruct my view.

If the wind's from the west, I might still go for the chop / drop / slip and straight-in for 27.

===edit===

These threads are the most fun!

 

[Dave Siciliano]

OK, Dave, this is fun. 27R mandates climbing right turn to 165, thence intercept the 076 to MZB, then back outbound on V66 (not depicted, is that also on the 076?);

Without an IFR-low with V66 depicted, I am at a disadvantage... but I worry about:

1. Keeping reasonably close in my climbing right turn to 165, to avoid the 1280' bump to the east and a little north of the field, and

2. Depending upon how fast I am going, ten minutes worth of 3,000' could put me mighty close to some much higher terrain, so I'd want to maintain my sitch awareness and avoid being the Lear into the mountain. Be ready to ask for my climb in plenty of time to get it clean and safe.

V-66 runs between MZB (Mission Bay and IPL Imperial). The Baret intersection is on V-66 --that's how you arrived. You would depart and need what rate of climb? When would you begin your turn to the right? You would do a standard rate right turn to what heading? What would you normally expect to have happen as you climb out of a valley to a place where So Cal could pick you up (hint....hint)?

Best,

Dave

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Yes, you need a functioning marker beacon reciever....and the marker transmitter needs to work as well. Watch the climb gradients too. While folks tend to target fixate on the "it only applies to Part 135/121", rocks don't care what CFR you fly under. I like this approach a bunch.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Yes, you need a functioning marker beacon reciever....and the marker transmitter needs to work as well. Watch the climb gradients too. While folks tend to target fixate on the "it only applies to Part 135/121", rocks don't care what CFR you fly under. I like this approach a bunch.

JR, I believe you also need a certain altimeter setting to make it down to the lower MDA. Note, if you use Miramar the minimums are higher. There is also pilot controlled lighting after hours <g>

If you ever fly this, ATIS will give two tower frequencies and left and right traffic are normal off 27L and R. Of course, on a circle to land, you own the runways once cleared <g>

Ain't this one fun?

Best,

Dave

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Fly it? Ha....Dave, I approved it.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

If I could offer some encouragement, when I went through this at SIMCOM with some folks, and on another web board, some very accomplished, high time folks missed some important things. One circled into rattlesnake mountain (which is what is NE on arrival). One turned the incorrect direction on departure.

I know they didn't study it as hard as they would have if actually flying it, but there is a lot going on here <g>

I've flown this many times and still really dig in and look at it if the weather is a challenge on arrival and departure.

Best,

Dave

 

[bbchien]

But Bruce, wouldn't that put you circling NE ot 27R/17. where it is not authorized?

That puts me to the south, where I think it is authorized.....

You come in from the east, turn left traffic, which is south....

am I missing something...hopefully a rock..!

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Fly it? Ha....Dave, I approved it.

Great! Perhaps you can shed some light on certain facets of it for us <g>

I've seen a lot of real experienced folks miss some things on here!

Best,

Dave

 

[Fast n' Furious]

It's no worse than a lot of SIAPs. People mess it up when they read what they want to read or somehow think the rules don't really apply to them. Those laws of physics are pretty much immutable. Like I tell folks all the time...please read the chart completely and fly it like it was charted.

 

[SCCutler]

V-66 runs between MZB (Mission Bay and IPL Imperial). The Baret intersection is on V-66 --that's how you arrived. You would depart and need what rate of climb? When would you begin your turn to the right? You would do a standard rate right turn to what heading? What would you normally expect to have happen as you climb out of a valley to a place where So Cal could pick you up (hint....hint)?

Best,

Dave

I may be dense, but here's what I see, and I think you are amplifying my inherent fear of scraping the plane on rocks... I'd begin my right turn to 165 as soon as I was comfy with it, probably 500' AGL. Odds are, as soon as I was radar contact with SoCal, they'd vector me on a short-cut east to get me out of their airspace sooner, and that puts me flying towards the substantially-higher stuff to the east, while I am still low and very close.

Hence, watch location and altitude closely, and remember that, I screw up, I die; they screw up, I still die.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Thanks JR; keep us straight here <g>

So, let's go back to my questions about departing to Spike.

You would depart and need what rate of climb?
When would you begin your turn to the right?
You would do a standard rate right turn to what heading?
What would you normally expect to have happen as you climb out of a valley to a place where So Cal could pick you up (hint....hint)?

If you lost com or So Cal didn't acknowledge radar contact, what would be your procedure?

Best,

Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Spike:

There is a standard altitude one is to begin a turn for an IMC departure, I believe. 500 feet probably works but is not the standard unless I'm incorrect.

You need a stated rate of climb to 900 feet; you really do!! Then a standard departure climb.

You are right on as far as climbing to a level where So Cal will get you on radar and vector you to the east. Usually a heading to intercept V-66 or direct IPL.

If they did not get radar contact, how would you fly the departure?

By the time you climb ahead; then make the right 165, and come back over the field, you will be well above rattlesnake mountain <g>

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

Oh yeah, and 370'/nm climb rate, which means better than 750fpm at 120, as long as I am mindful of wind; taking off into the west improves this number, but watch it if I turn right, get strong tailwind from west, turn slowly...


...come to think of it, maybe an extra 300' (to 800agl) straight ahead, before standard-rate right turn starts, would feel nice.

===edit===
Forgot to answer the rate of climb part, typed above while you gave your hand-spanking. Deserved, it was, too!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Dave, you're close. 400 feet....start your turn UNLESS as in this case we have non standard departure minimums requiring us to either have the see and avoid viz or a required climb gradient to an altitude. Careful on delaying those turns too.....DP traps are designed to give you obstacle clearance to the enroute structure. Some of those DP require a turn to keep you away from rocks that you cannot outclimb. Fly the chart......this is a cool exercise by the way.

 

[SCCutler]

And no contact or lost comm, I'd fly it as published; right turn to 165, intercept the 076 radial, inbound, to SZW, then reverse course, fly it back outbound (V66, right?), to Caret and on out.

If I am lost comm, I also climb in time to make all minimum altitudes for each segment per the applicable IFR-lo chart.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

You're doing excellent! Way to think though all this stuff. You've just about worn me out <g> Let me ask another thing or two and I may have to pick this back up tomorrow!!

Now that you can see what is supposed to happen and what can happen, let's move you back to runway 27R and make your plane ready to depart.

How do you set up your panel?

Where do you set the heading bug?
How about the CDI?
How will you check minimum climb rate to 900 feet?
Let's say you have a GPS; where would you set that?
Two VORs; where would you set them?

KSEE has a pretty high ceiling requirement to get in; if we are departing below the minimums that would be required to come back in and land in the case of an emergency, how would you provide for that?

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

Now that you can see what is supposed to happen and what can happen, let's move you back to runway 27R and make your plane ready to depart.

How do you set up your panel?

Where do you set the heading bug?
How about the CDI?
How will you check minimum climb rate to 900 feet?
Let's say you have a GPS; where would you set that?
Two VORs; where would you set them?

KSEE has a pretty high ceiling requirement to get in; if we are departing below the minimums that would be required to come back in land in the case of an emergency, how would you provide for that?

Best,

Dave

Well, now.

My typical practice, when departing in IMC, is to set up one radio & CDI for initial navaid fix (assuming one's assigned), and the other for the "oh crap" return to land en caso de emergencia (this is usually where Celia gets impatient, thinks I am taking too long to call ready to go, and I tell her "I am the pilot").

So for this one, I'd set up one Nav for the SZW inbound- tune SZW and set CDI to 256 (to intercept inbound on the 076); and the other Nav for the LOC approach (presume that's the most-likely approach, if I am departing 27R).

The GPS? I could program up my whole flight in it... or I could set it up Direct SEE and display an extended-centerline for a very quick and dirty "where am I" if the dukey hits the fan (I always use track-up, BTW). If I am running a 430/530, this is the same one I set to SZW, because if I need to get back to the airport, I don't much care about the VOR, now do I? Just be ready to hit the OBS button and spin the CDI to the heading of the runway I am trying to get to to save my bacon.

Heading bug, I'd have set to 165, having faith that I can maintain the runway heading long enough for the initial climb before beginning the turn.

Climb rate, if I had better than 750fpm at 120, I'd be OK, but better to just take a nice, higher-performance climb for the initial climb, make 750fpm my minimum rate and, say, 110 knots my maximum speed. These are easy numbers in the BO, typically, and San Diego's gonna usually be cool enough to pose not much of a DA challenge.

So, I kill anyone yet?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I don't think there's a right or wrong as long as your approach is safe, but it's good to think through all of this.

When I depart, I know what is most probable is I will be in my climbing right turn to 165 when I get above 2,500; So Cal will then identify and tell me they have radar coverage.

So, heading bug to 165 for me on departure.

Next, I want the airway (V-66) shown somewhere because So. Cal. will normally vector me to intercept or give me direct to point on the airway.

So, I normally put the flight plan in the GPS and on the Garmin, once So. Cal. sees me and vectors me, I can hit Flt Plan, and direct, direct between way points to show the route, or direct to a way point if that's where I'm headed.

I put MZB on the VOR (No. Two) and the 076 on that CDI. That way I can intercept that outbound which is V-66 in my direction of flight, or turn on the reciprocal to go to MZB (Mission Bay).

Since I have two VORs, the frequency on number one goes to Montgomery MYF ILS approach in case I have to come back to land immediately. MYF is very close by and has an ILS approach I could pick up quickly off KSEE. I also have the approach plate to both MYF and KSEE open.

Just the manner in which I do it <g> Some other folks have methods that could work just as well.

Best,

Dave

 

[Patch]

Thanks JR; keep us straight here <g>

So, let's go back to my questions about departing to Spike.

You would depart and need what rate of climb?

1850 FPM.

When would you begin your turn to the right?

2500 ft.

You would do a standard rate right turn to what heading?

If you lost com or So Cal didn't acknowledge radar contact, what would be your procedure?

AVEF
MEA

I'd fly the assigned, vectored, expected, or filed routing. This case being the assigned routing given to me in my clearance, then proceed as filed.

As for the altitude, I'd fly no lower than the MEA, and fly the highest of the assigned or expected, so if the MEA is the highest, I'd climb to MEA.. If 3000 is higher than the MEA, I'd fly 3000 until 10 minutes then climb to 10,000.

How do you set up your panel?

Where do you set the heading bug?
How about the CDI?
How will you check minimum climb rate to 900 feet?
Let's say you have a GPS; where would you set that?
Two VORs; where would you set them?

Heading bug would be 165, Course 176. I'd have BARET in the GPS and whatever the next VORTAC is for the second VOR.

I'd have the LOC dialed up as well in case I had to make a return.

 

[poadeleted20]

First of all, this is a circling-only approach. With an HAA of 1153 at 2.8nm from the approach end of 27R, you've got a descent gradient of over 400 ft/nm -- and that's a lot at night, which is why there are no straight-in mins. Now, we all should know that the absence of straight-in mins on an approach aligned with the runway (as this is, else it would be an LDA approach) does not prohibit landing straight in, but it is a strong caution about doing so under less-than-ideal conditions (e.g., at night with gusty crosswinds). Therefore, I'd be planning a circling maneuver from the git-go -- the only question is to which runway.

With the ATIS reporting westerly winds but the tower reporting southerly, I'd be believing the tower. The ATIS doesn't get updated that quickly for winds, but the tower folks are sitting there watching the wind meter in the cab, and have a real good feel for what the wind is actually doing. With that information, I'm be heading for 17. Since circling in the northeast quadrant is prohibited, the best choice I see is to continue down 27R at MDA, turn right at the end, and circle to the right to 17, leaving MDA when I am in a position to land on 17 using "normal maneuvers." In this case, with a TPA of about 200 below the MDA, I'd be descending out of MDA about the time I reached the approach end of 27R, and holding TPA until on downwind for 17 abeam the touchdown point, and then flying a "normal" visual traffic pattern.

I would not turn left at 17 to fly an upwind/crosswind because that's turning my back on the touchdown zone -- I don't like doing that on a circling approach, especially at night.

As for the departure, I'd not be waiting for 500 AGL to start my turn off Rwy 9. My Tiger has a tough time making 1000 ft/nm, and that hill with the 1280 tower is pretty close to the departure end of the 9's. I'll bet even your twins don't do that very well until you're up and clean at Vy. I'd be turning south as soon as I felt comfortable, no later than 400 AGL (since that's the departure zone clearance plane altitude in TERPS), and maybe lower if I could see there was nothing to hit.

Finally, if the GRIGG fix is depicted in the GPS for this approach, I think you'd be legal to step down after passing it even without a MB receiver. Fact is that the GPS is a lot more accurate than the MB, so I'd be happier with the GPS than the MB to identify GRIGG.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Thanks Ron.

All excellent points! Didn't think about turning my back to the approach point if I did the turn down 17; then right traffic. In the instant case, there was no way I was comfortable with the straight in. Seemed I was real close to the threshold when I broke out.

I agree, one needs to be preparing to circle to land; if everything works out right and one gets a visual early, maybe they can adjust, but even when coming in midday, it takes a bit of an aggressive descent to go straight in <g>

I'm going to check on the location of the displaced threshold. Last I recall, it seemed farther down 27R than is shown on the approach plate I have.

Best,

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Okay, I'm gonna take Spike's test too.

For the arrival on the LOC-D, it looks like there's only one transition and one IAF. The transition is from Mission Bay which is kind of a ways away... Is BARET in the enroute structure as well?

Either way, assuming no vectors (or lost comm), upon arriving at BARET, fly outbound on the localizer, procedure turn south/right within 10 miles at or above 6800, back in, intercept the localizer, at least 6600 at BARET inbound, down to 4500 until SAMOS, 2700 to GRIGG, and assuming we can identify GRIGG via marker or GPS, down to minimums.

Assuming we see the field right at mins (1540/1.25)... Wind from the west, fly a full pattern to 27 unless there's a LOT of wind from the west and we can safely descend at 1000'/nm. From the north, left turn and right pattern to 35. From the east, left turn and right pattern to 9L/R. Light from the south, fly down 27 and then right traffic to 17. Very very heavy winds from the south, maybe even fly down 27 and make a left turn onto 17.

Now, assuming I didn't kill myself yet, we call for our clearance and...

You would depart and need what rate of climb?

Well... I'm not using runway(s) 9...

Rwys 9L, 9R, 900-2 or std. with a min. climb of 1000' per NM to 1600.

... 'cuz I can't do 1000'/nm even with a pretty blistering headwind.

The rest of the runways, I could do, but I'd certainly be climbing at Vy.

When would you begin your turn to the right?

Cross departure end at or above 50' AGL, no turns before 400' AGL, and 200' per nm thereafter is the standard IIRC. How'd I do, John?

You would do a standard rate right turn to what heading?

165, until reaching MZB 076 radial.

What would you normally expect to have happen as you climb out of a valley to a place where So Cal could pick you up (hint....hint)?

"Skylane 271G, radar contact, fly heading xxx, vectors for..."

If you lost com or So Cal didn't acknowledge radar contact, what would be your procedure?

165, MZB 076 to MZB, then as cleared, expected or filed in that order.