How are you pilots in the southwest handling this heatwave?

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,393
Location
Oslo, Norway
Display Name
Display name:
Jacker
By accident I posted this in "lessons learned" but asked it be ignored, here is where I meant to ask.

Just seeing the weather reports (it's even on the normal media news here in Norway) about temperatures in the 115 degree range and more, just wondering if there is any flying even allowed or possible in that kind of heat?
 
When I was in flight school in Arizona in the early 1990's, they had a few days of 122 degrees (broke records at the time). All the airliners had to stop flying at Sky Harbor because none of the airlines had takeoff data for anything over 120.
 
What about GA takeoff and landings in heat like this? Also, it it very turbulent once you get up?
 
This is the time of year for heat down there. Nothing particularly unusual. Planes still fly.
 
Just takes more of the runway.
As far as turbulence --- don't need heat for that; just the beginning of the month of March and it's with us constantly until around Labor Day.
Wind produces as much of it as do thermals.
Something you just learn to live with and realize that holding AN altitude or wings level is a fantasy.
Departing/Arriving at 9000 & 10,000' density altitudes is not a big deal
 
THE thing that newbies, who did their training during the winter, are quickly taught ===>
You RELIGIOUSLY use sunscreens (the silver blankets, not the cream) in the windows when parked and through preflight
From entry, you leave the doors wide open (regardless what the checklist says) from strap in, through engine start, through comm instructions and warm up, through taxi, and through run--up before considering closing them. Further, you don't make sure that they are closed and secure until after on the line and having received take-off clearance ((gets muy caliente inside the spam cans very quickly!!!)))

And upon landing, even before retracting the flaps, the doors come open again!!
Otherwise, we enjoy our heat while eating our jalapenos watching flight activity on the fields :D
 
oldShar said:
THE thing that newbies, who did their training during the winter, are quickly taught ===>
You RELIGIOUSLY use sunscreens (the silver blankets, not the cream) in the windows when parked and through preflight
From entry, you leave the doors wide open (regardless what the checklist says) from strap in, through engine start, through comm instructions and warm up, through taxi, and through run--up before considering closing them. Further, you don't make sure that they are closed and secure until after on the line and having received take-off clearance ((gets muy caliente inside the spam cans very quickly!!!)))

And upon landing, even before retracting the flaps, the doors come open again!!
Otherwise, we enjoy our heat while eating our jalapenos watching flight activity on the fields :D
Click to expand...
You also learn to limit your flying (or at least departures) as much as possible to the early mornings.
 
You also drink plenty of water and wet your face and neck if necessary. Your physical performance drops rapidly otherwise.

And you fly Cessnas. This is a case where you REALLY want two doors and windows that open.
 
The heat does change things a little. Longer takeoff distances, slower climbs and HOT interiors. I will climb as high as possible trying to get to cooler temperatures. And I fly turbo charged airplanes. Other than becoming nocturnal and flying at night, it is business as usual during summer.
 
Though it doesn't get quite as hot here in Oklahoma as it does out in Arizona, we're regularly above 100°F with heat indices above 110°F due to humidity. Personally, I rarely fly in the afternoon this time of year. Most of my flying is done later in ethe evenings, say after 6pm. It's still hot then, but it's usually beginning to cool a bit and the wind starts dying down. Mornings aren't too bad, but it starts getting really steamy as soon as the sun starts warming up the morning dew. I'm neither a morning person, nor partial to extreme perspiration, so evening is the lesser of the evils. The air does get choppy in summer, but as someone said earlier, it's more due to the winds. Ya do what you gotta do.
 
Last edited:
OkieFlyer said:
Though it doesn't get quite as hot here in Oklahoma as it does out in Arizona, we're regularly above 100°F with heat indices above 110°F due to humidity.
Click to expand...
I grew up the the Phoenix area and spent a summer working in OKC.

I'll take 120F in PHX over 98F in OKC in a heartbeat.
 
..... had to stop flying at Sky Harbor because none of the airlines had takeoff data for anything over 120.


Except Airbus
 
Fearless Tower said:
I grew up the the Phoenix area and spent a summer working in OKC.

I'll take 120F in PHX over 98F in OKC in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. I have traveled to AZ several times, but haven't spent enough time there to really know the weather. The old saying about AZ is that it's a "dry heat." I'm not sure which is worse, but I reckon whether it's moist heat or dry, it still sucks.
 
Used to fly out of PSP, that's about standard summer temps, sucks to peel yourself out of the plane after a flight, lapse rate and bottled water with ice is your friend, but it's doable.
 
OkieFlyer said:
I hear ya. I have traveled to AZ several times, but haven't spent enough time there to really know the weather. The old saying about AZ is that it's a "dry heat." I'm not sure which is worse, but I reckon whether it's moist heat or dry, it still sucks.
Click to expand...
I was born and raised in Phoenix. People used to always say that... 'but it's a dry heat' and I'd be like "shut up, it's F'n hot!"

Then I spent that summer in OKC and I suddenly understood what they meant!

But, by far the worst place I've ever experienced is Bahrain/Kuwait. Think Phoenix temps with Gulf of Mexico humidity.

Hell on earth.

Then to make things worse, put on a Kevlar helmet and body armor and stand outside in the sun. But, I had it easy. I could always go inside the skin of the ship and soak up the A/C. I can't imagine how miserable the Marines and Army guys were out in the field.
 
DA is 9033 at the home 'drome right now. It'll be like that for the rest of the summer, and higher.

It's always nice and cool in Leadville, but I would suggest that a old safety margin we've all learned is that 70F is a solid no-go number for up there. Wait until it cools off! :)
 
When it's over 100 outside you don't go flying. You go to an air conditioned bar and drink beer until October (or mid September) if you live in Phoenix. Ol' Pilawt is gonna find that out soon enough!
 
Sluggo63 said:
When I was in flight school in Arizona in the early 1990's, they had a few days of 122 degrees (broke records at the time). All the airliners had to stop flying at Sky Harbor because none of the airlines had takeoff data for anything over 120.
Click to expand...
I remember that. It's not that they weren't capable, but they couldn't prove they were capable due to lack of data.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I was born and raised in Phoenix. People used to always say that... 'but it's a dry heat' and I'd be like "shut up, it's F'n hot!"

Then I spent that summer in OKC and I suddenly understood what they meant!

But, by far the worst place I've ever experienced is Bahrain/Kuwait. Think Phoenix temps with Gulf of Mexico humidity.

Hell on earth.

Then to make things worse, put on a Kevlar helmet and body armor and stand outside in the sun. But, I had it easy. I could always go inside the skin of the ship and soak up the A/C. I can't imagine how miserable the Marines and Army guys were out in the field.
Click to expand...
I never spent time in the sandbox, but i did spend 2 years stationed at Ft. Sill OK. Brutal those summers were.
 
Kritchlow said:
I remember that. It's not that they weren't capable, but they couldn't prove they were capable due to lack of data.
Click to expand...
Exactly. From what I remember, Boeing and Airbus sells "hot weather data," but it would cost the airlines extra to buy it, and none of them did. So they were stuck for a few hours while the temps were above 120.
 
Scrabo said:
..... had to stop flying at Sky Harbor because none of the airlines had takeoff data for anything over 120.


Except Airbus
Click to expand...
I can't remember, but IIRC, even the Airbuses were grounded.
 
It is not particularly hot in New Mexico. Albuquerque was 100 degrees F (+38C) for a few days, so you want to be in shade, but it's not brutal. When I lived in California, every summer was 110. I remember 117 one day. Seems like a small difference, but you can tell quickly as it goes above your body temperature.

I flew to Sierra Vista on a summer day like this. It was about 96F in KABQ, but when I landed at KFHU it was well about 110, maybe 120F. It was the only time in my career when I overheated O-320 in Skyhawk. When climbed out of Sierra Vista, I noticed that oil temperature was growing alarmingly. I stopped climbing and played with minimum throttle and maximum airspeed, and barely managed to make it stop growing. Then I zig-zagged from cloud to cloud, slow down under clouds, fast ahead between clouds. It allowed me to gain some altitude and reach cooler air. That was pretty bad.

The worst place to be on a hot day is Las Vegas, Nevada. It's a real oven breaking 120. Although it's only 112 today. That's not much of a "heat wave".
 
i learned to not dawdle in engine start, clearance, checklist and takeoff flying form KTUS in the heat. You wanted to get that oven with wings up into cool air ASAP.
The good news was since its a dry heat, all that sweat drys off. Not so much in ATL where i live now. humidity sucks.
 
Fly early, if you are flying late in the day, watch the Density Altitude. Yes it was very turbulent about 3pm today.
Glider pilots enjoy it, it's comfortable above 10K MSL. Last Saturday was tough as the soarable thermal index topped out at about 10,500 MSL. There was an inversion above.

It was 83F when I headed out at 4am this morning, 113F now. DA is about 6100.
 
Did some 310 flying out in Albuquerque earlier in May and i will just say, the turbo 520's are nice. DA was up about 6-7k feet in the morning hours.
 
zaitcev said:
It is not particularly hot in New Mexico. Albuquerque was 100 degrees F (+38C) for a few days, so you want to be in shade, but it's not brutal. When I lived in California, every summer was 110. I remember 117 one day. Seems like a small difference, but you can tell quickly as it goes above your body temperature.

I flew to Sierra Vista on a summer day like this. It was about 96F in KABQ, but when I landed at KFHU it was well about 110, maybe 120F. It was the only time in my career when I overheated O-320 in Skyhawk. When climbed out of Sierra Vista, I noticed that oil temperature was growing alarmingly. I stopped climbing and played with minimum throttle and maximum airspeed, and barely managed to make it stop growing. Then I zig-zagged from cloud to cloud, slow down under clouds, fast ahead between clouds. It allowed me to gain some altitude and reach cooler air. That was pretty bad.

The worst place to be on a hot day is Las Vegas, Nevada. It's a real oven breaking 120. Although it's only 112 today. That's not much of a "heat wave".
Click to expand...

Smart! So you were flying like I walk on a hot beach running from sun to parasol shade etc. !
 
Last edited:
I really don't mind the heat... 110 becomes 80 at 8,500 ft, and that's almost chilly to us in Phoenix. It's the bumpy flying that I hate, hate, hate.
Hanging out in the hangar isn't much fun, either.
smfathersdayheat.jpg
 
Fearless Tower said:
I grew up the the Phoenix area and spent a summer working in OKC.

I'll take 120F in PHX over 98F in OKC in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
I grew up in Phoenix, went to college in Texas. And that's why I live in Colorado. Even my parents would spend the 3 months of summer traveling or staying with me.

I don't even like the mid-90s here in Colorado.
 
We broke 100 down here in the SE corner of CO today. I would happily suffer the sweating if I had the time to go flying.
 
I just went out and its 100 degrees. You have to watch the CHT's. I pulled the throttle and prop back to keep them under 450 (500 is allowed). Kills off your climb rate to do it. Use full oil helps on climbout on oil temp. YMMV.
 
Cooling can be an issue especially in climb. I've had to level out every 1-2 thousand feet to let the cylinders and oil cool down some. And spend minimum time on the ground on a fuel stop. Once in Alabama we stopped for gas. Lady ran out said 'you know how to work this thing' and threw me the keys to the pump and went back inside.
 
zaitcev said:
The worst place to be on a hot day is Las Vegas, Nevada. It's a real oven breaking 120. Although it's only 112 today. That's not much of a "heat wave".
Click to expand...

Interestingly, the hottest temp ever recorded in Las Vegas is 117. I know this because it's the same highest temp for Tucson.
 
murphey said:
I grew up in Phoenix, went to college in Texas. And that's why I live in Colorado. Even my parents would spend the 3 months of summer traveling or staying with me.

I don't even like the mid-90s here in Colorado.
Click to expand...
But it gets cold in Colorado. I hate that.
 
jimson said:
Interestingly, the hottest temp ever recorded in Las Vegas is 117. I know this because it's the same highest temp for Tucson.
Click to expand...
You know, you are quite right. My memory is just faulty and I happen to have a proof. When I thought it was the hottest day, I took a picture. It was only 112F, not 122F.
 

Attachments

  • 2012br-06.jpg
    2012br-06.jpg
    97.8 KB · Views: 17
We used to shut down DC-9 ops at PSP over 120deg because DA went over 10,000ft and we would exceed our max tire speed of 175knots...........the tire speed was what the drivers really worried about
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top