House buying sucks

falconkidding

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Falcon Kidding
Been trying to find a house for a few months put in offers on 2 and got beat out even at full price bids (houses are selling the week they pop up) Found "the one" we both liked in our budget and everything has been falling into place smoothly over the last month and a half. We turned in the last bit of financial paperwork and just waiting on appraisal and it comes back way low.

The house we are trying to buy was a more than fair price even the realtor was like this is a deal compared to the others you've looked at. Then the appraisal comes in today and is low. Like really low. Stupidly low. I know its not a science but zillow projected "values" for everything in the neighborhood range from 200+ to 400+ however the appraiser valued it in the 170s.

Smaller older homes that aren't even brick with smaller yards are going for 180+ heck my brother in laws home that is smaller 15 years older half the yard and in a "much lesser" neighborhood 2miles away was valued in the 190s when they got it last month. I'm so aggravated, I'm new to this home buying thing but there better be a way to contest this garbage. My poor wife is gonna have a stroke if we lose out on house +3.
 
I am living the same dream. Seller wants to know how much cash we can backstop the loan with if the appraisal comes back low (full price offer). It is a stupid market right now.
 
Prices on Zillow are completely unreliable. The site does not use real appraisals but instead uses tax records and compares them to assessor records for a given area. And rarely update them based on new sales. No one uses Zillow as a basis for valuations.

The housing market on the lower end is hot since interest rates have started to rise and people panic and start to buy thinking they will beat higher rates. Prices were historically suppressed after the Subprime crash and now all the short sales are gone and prices are rising in the low to medium range around big cities.

If you are hunting in the lower ranges you may have to start looking at wrecks you can add sweat equity too to get in one sooner rather than later. But even houses like that are under pressure from house flippers.
 
Prices on Zillow are completely unreliable...now all the short sales are gone and prices are rising in the low to medium range around big cities.
100% Agree that Zillow prices are basically worthless... I was just watching on the news last night and it mentioned that home prices in bigger cities(especially in Cali) are going for over 30% more of the prices they were before the recession.
Been trying to find a house for a few months put in offers on 2 and got beat out even at full price bids (houses are selling the week they pop up) Found "the one" we both liked in our budget and everything has been falling into place smoothly over the last month and a half. We turned in the last bit of financial paperwork and just waiting on appraisal and it comes back way low.

The house we are trying to buy was a more than fair price even the realtor was like this is a deal compared to the others you've looked at. Then the appraisal comes in today and is low. Like really low. Stupidly low. I know its not a science but zillow projected "values" for everything in the neighborhood range from 200+ to 400+ however the appraiser valued it in the 170s.

Smaller older homes that aren't even brick with smaller yards are going for 180+ heck my brother in laws home that is smaller 15 years older half the yard and in a "much lesser" neighborhood 2miles away was valued in the 190s when they got it last month. I'm so aggravated, I'm new to this home buying thing but there better be a way to contest this garbage. My poor wife is gonna have a stroke if we lose out on house +3.
What state do you live in? Also, I'd get it reappraised using someone else, there can be a substantial difference between different appraisers.
 
Be patient. It can be disappointing when you can't land a deal, but the thing about the "up" housing market, is that another deal will pop up quickly and likely be just as satisfying as any of the missed opportunities you dealt with. The recession worked out really well for me, as I was able to buy a house 30% larger than what I was initially looking for, at a price 25% lower than current market value (5 years ago). It was a deal that my realtor wasn't even investigating until I forced her to, and I end up with a great home with solid bones. I definitely have been putting in the sweat equity, but I loved getting a great deal that I knew I'd never lose my butt on, financially.
 
I am living the same dream. Seller wants to know how much cash we can backstop the loan with if the appraisal comes back low (full price offer). It is a stupid market right now.

I was told that for a conforming mortgage, the processors can't allow backstopping the loan with cash. The appraised price is what it is. You can ask the mortgage company to get a second appraisal if there is a formal error in the first one.

I have found the new Dodd Frank appraisals to be worthless. I had the same house appraised three times within a year and the results were 25% apart. The predictable result of good intentions gone bad. 'Uncoupling' the appraisers from the loan processors sounded like a good idea, the problem is that there is now no feedback for a shoddy appraiser. Worst thing that can happen is that they have to look for a new intermediary if too many of their appraisals get canned.
 
I was told that for a conforming mortgage, the processors can't allow backstopping the loan with cash. The appraised price is what it is. You can ask the mortgage company to get a second appraisal if there is a formal error in the first one.

I have found the new Dodd Frank appraisals to be worthless. I had the same house appraised three times within a year and the results were 25% apart. The predictable result of good intentions gone bad. 'Uncoupling' the appraisers from the loan processors sounded like a good idea, the problem is that there is now no feedback for a shoddy appraiser. Worst thing that can happen is that they have to look for a new intermediary if too many of their appraisals get canned.
Good to know. We are probably getting bad advice from our realtor, on top of that.
 
Welcome to the next "Housing Bubble". It will burst in time like they always do.
Yep, that is my fear. Maybe I should sit back and rent for a while... It seems just a bit too hot right now. In our area, any listing over 3 days old is considered old. I know spring is the time, but it doesn't seem sustainable.
 
I'm going to move before I put my house on the market because everyone tells me it will go fast.
 
I'm going to move before I put my house on the market because everyone tells me it will go fast.
It probably will, but even a fast escrow is 30 days and it is more likely to be at least 45 days. I have been renting a house since my divorce and my landlord just gave me 60 days notice, because he wants to sell it. I couldn't come to terms with him on a price, so I have been looking elsewhere. If I am not under contract by the end of this weekend, I am just going to rent another house for a while.
 
It probably will, but even a fast escrow is 30 days and it is more likely to be at least 45 days. I have been renting a house since my divorce and my landlord just gave me 60 days notice, because he wants to sell it. I couldn't come to terms with him on a price, so I have been looking elsewhere. If I am not under contract by the end of this weekend, I am just going to rent another house for a while.
Luckily I'm not under any deadline. I've already put off the move for a week, or two. As long as everything is done by July or even August I will be happy. I'm going from two residences to one, though. If I was into the money aspect, I would sell the other one, but no...
 
Good to know. We are probably getting bad advice from our realtor, on top of that.

I had a buyer who was willing to do that and the bank shot it down. The bank will not allow someone to pay more for the house than 'what it is worth*'. The only way to do this would be with a transaction that is not reflected in the closing documents.



* 'what it is worth' to the bank is whatever ficticious number the appraiser they hired came up with. They don't know any better.
 
I hear and feel for ya', buddy.

I am waiting for the engineers structural report, which should have been done by now, so we can close on a new to us house next Friday.

It has been a 7 week long and not pleasant period. Even after putting 75% down payment.

And I will advise everyone to NOT tell the bank you can pay cash for the house.

We have been searching for a house since November. The house we found was not through a realtor, but through friends at church.
 
I'm going to move before I put my house on the market because everyone tells me it will go fast.

We sold our house in Centennial (~12 minutes to KAPA) back in October in less than 2 hours after it got listed, way above our ridiculous asking price.
 
I sold my last house for 193. That was five years ago I just looked and it's listed for sale again for 340. I can only handle a few more tax hikes in my current house before I'm going to have to downsize. My house payment keeps going up and up and up every year. I worry a lot about my children. When I first bought a home in Texas this was the place to buy a house you could get so much for your money. I can't imagine if this keeps going up what the situation for new home buyers is going to be like in a few years. They're going to be completely unable
 
Zillow had my last home way under value, based on one bath, 2 car garage, no fireplace, no master bath. No clue where they got that info from. It had a 3 car garage (attached), the single Bay was oversized with a 10' x 10' door. It had a nice master bath with jetted garden tub and separate shower, nice wood burning fireplace with gas starter. Kinda ****ed me off. Very unreliable info.
 
I sold my last house for 193. That was five years ago I just looked and it's listed for sale again for 340. I can only handle a few more tax hikes in my current house before I'm going to have to downsize. My house payment keeps going up and up and up every year. I worry a lot about my children. When I first bought a home in Texas this was the place to buy a house you could get so much for your money. I can't imagine if this keeps going up what the situation for new home buyers is going to be like in a few years. They're going to be completely unable
But people have been saying stuff like that for as long as I've been an adult. Some tried to push me into buying a house or condo when I was young. I'm glad I didn't. I was 35 before I bought a house; the one I'm selling soon.
 
I sold my last house for 193. That was five years ago I just looked and it's listed for sale again for 340. I can only handle a few more tax hikes in my current house before I'm going to have to downsize. My house payment keeps going up and up and up every year. I worry a lot about my children. When I first bought a home in Texas this was the place to buy a house you could get so much for your money. I can't imagine if this keeps going up what the situation for new home buyers is going to be like in a few years. They're going to be completely unable
I'm so sorry that your house is increasing in value so quickly. ;)
 
I'm so sorry that your house is increasing in value so quickly. ;)
It does me no good. I like the idea of the free equity but it doesn't really benefit me as far add I can tell
 
It does me no good. I like the idea of the free equity but it doesn't really benefit me as far add I can tell

Make sure you pay those taxes for the 5 years after the crash until the new assessment comes out.
 
I'm so sorry that your house is increasing in value so quickly. ;)

In TX, that's probably property tax rates maxed out by the assessors, so every few years, there a new tax assessment done, raising the taxable value.

We've seen that in San Antonio. One neighborhood over pays San Antonio city taxes. We don't. Same house pays quite a bit more in taxes just being in the SA tax jurisdiction. Something like $5500/yr more in property taxes.
 
In TX, that's probably property tax rates maxed out by the assessors, so every few years, there a new tax assessment done, raising the taxable value.

We've seen that in San Antonio. One neighborhood over pays San Antonio city taxes. We don't. Same house pays quite a bit more in taxes just being in the SA tax jurisdiction. Something like $5500/yr more in property taxes.

It's every year. Legally the max they can raise them in one year is 10% and so guess how much it gets raised every single year. Property values have gone through the roof. But that has no effect on my house payment. But the taxes every year are kinda take the wind out of my sails.
 
It's every year. Legally the max they can raise them in one year is 10% and so guess how much it gets raised every single year. Property values have gone through the roof. But that has no effect on my house payment. But the taxes every year are kinda take the wind out of my sails.

10%?!?

Max here is 3% per year


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I think I didn't say that right. The max they can increase the taxable value is 10 percent each year.
 
I'm going to move before I put my house on the market because everyone tells me it will go fast.

Probably will. Stuff way out where we are takes only a couple weeks if it's in good shape it looks like.

We sold our house in Centennial (~12 minutes to KAPA) back in October in less than 2 hours after it got listed, way above our ridiculous asking price.

Same here, but three days, and it was four years ago. If we'd have held onto it until now, it probably would have made us another $100K. But we were happy with what we got.

I sold my last house for 193. That was five years ago I just looked and it's listed for sale again for 340. I can only handle a few more tax hikes in my current house before I'm going to have to downsize. My house payment keeps going up and up and up every year. I worry a lot about my children. When I first bought a home in Texas this was the place to buy a house you could get so much for your money. I can't imagine if this keeps going up what the situation for new home buyers is going to be like in a few years. They're going to be completely unable

Texas was always under valued in the mid 2000s. I would go down there to visit family in Houston and they'd be living in some mansion with a swimming pool and they'd say it cost the same as Denver back then. It probably was inevitable that it had to catch up. Houses there are unholy big. I wouldn't want to clean the thing.

Sounds like the gub'mint finally decided to get their cut and went after the property taxes. You guys were always high on those. But you didn't have other taxes. So it used to kinda be a wash. But big houses can't be made smaller, so unlike other taxes, it's kinda harder to cut back on something.

It does me no good. I like the idea of the free equity but it doesn't really benefit me as far add I can tell

It all depends on when you sell. And most folks don't have a whole lot of control over that. But if you do... whooo boy. It's a pile of cash out of literally nothing.

We "only" made about $60K on our sale, but all that house needed in 12 years was new windows and a new concrete front porch. We also ripped up the carpets and had the original wood floors finished and laid some new tile in the kitchen. Slapped a tub liner in on tub in the bathroom w never used. That's it.

We've heard the couple that bought it put $150K into it making it into what they wanted. Totally gutted it. Good for them. I'd never have dumped that much money into that thing. They added some god-awful Greek columns and an overhang over the front door. LOL. A 1968 spec house, two story, with one car attached garage -- with Greek columns. LOL LOL LOL. It's fugly. Doesn't match anything in that neighborhood either.

Hahaha. Some people are cray-cray.
 
Probably will. Stuff way out where we are takes only a couple weeks if it's in good shape it looks like.
The most recent one in the neighborhood was under contract in one day. I think I'm a little closer into town than you are. We also have underground electric and natural gas. I remember not looking at the subdivision where you live because it seemed too far out. My house is probably mid range price for the size. It had newish siding and window, and a mostly finished basement, making it a 4-bedroom. But kitchen, bathroom, flooring, and interior paint are original from 1992. Today I got a call from a co-worker asking if I wanted to rent it to his daughter and family. No to that. I don't want to be a long-distance landlord, or a landlord at all.
 
It will take me 6 to 9 months to sell my house. Markets are so localized. :(
 
I don't want to be a long-distance landlord, or a landlord at all.

How about hiring a management service to do the dirty work for you? Real estate makes a pretty good hedge investment.
 
My neighbors house is listed for $349k with no ocean view, similar size to mine. Mine has an ocean view and I bought it for $280k, even including the new garage and repairs I'm at right about $360k. Last year they listed it for $350k, I figure at $1000/yr it should sell in about 20 years.
 
The most recent one in the neighborhood was under contract in one day. I think I'm a little closer into town than you are. We also have underground electric and natural gas. I remember not looking at the subdivision where you live because it seemed too far out. My house is probably mid range price for the size. It had newish siding and window, and a mostly finished basement, making it a 4-bedroom. But kitchen, bathroom, flooring, and interior paint are original from 1992. Today I got a call from a co-worker asking if I wanted to rent it to his daughter and family. No to that. I don't want to be a long-distance landlord, or a landlord at all.

Yeah, it'll go quick. And agree, while real estate is a great investment, I'll never be a landlord of any non-commercial property.

Too much stupidity and then they start throwing words like "pre-meditated" around in the courtroom... LOL.

And if you pay someone to manage it, you usually lose so much doing that, you might as well have paid your broker to buy other stuff. Not always though.

The one thing dad had I wish we could have kept but went back to his ex (properly and I don't mind), was a high end, very high end, ownership of a room in a managed hotel in ski territory. A very interesting setup, it's run similarly to a timeshare but it's not. It's a hotel.

But every individual room was owned by one or more owners, the location was spectacular, and the fees for the management were quite reasonable for something that high end. Even with some initial construction quality problems with the whole roof.

I mean we're talking so nice you wouldn't say "hotel" about it if you walked in. Looked more like gorgeous common areas and individually owned condos. Big rooms. Multiple bedrooms. Full kitchens. Standard high end appliances. Fireplaces. Owners provided decorations and what not. If multiple owners they'd just agree on what was done. Each owner would have a personal touch in the units.

Quite unique. Dad owned it because he stayed in it to ski, not for the rental income, but if you didn't use it, they rent out the rooms.

And they rented HIGH during ski season and reasonably high not in season. The high rental rates meant that the typical tenant understood what a deal they were getting and took care of the place. Most damage I ever heard of was carpet stains and broken coffee pots. The price tag was high enough, even on units with four owners, none cared about a coffee pot. They'd just have the management folks pick up a decent one at WalMart and put it in the unit. Some units had fancier coffee stuff like a multi-hundred dollar barista machine. One owner would decide they wanted it there and the others would say sure, put it in and any damage that happened during a rental they'd all pitch in to fix it. If another owner broke something they'd just pay the co-owners for it, but never happened really.

Dates rotated each year for owners both in and out of season like a timeshare, but units were kept to four owners so it was a lot of time. Nobody used all their time.

And owners could go in off-season even if it wasn't their dates and rent any unit on a space-available basis. (And offer that to their family, which we took advantage of a few times and saw various rooms. Very cool. We also went up and stayed with dad a couple of times in his unit.)

That... was a very unique place. I even looked at what they cost and considered buying a quarter of a unit, but obviously -- the time to get in on that deal was back when they built the building. Prices reflect the rental income now. Still an impressive setup, but "original owners" have some perks the "new owners" don't have.

Not a timeshare though. So interesting. Fully titled and deeded per unit like a condo, but managed like a timeshare. Such a thing would only work in a tourist destination.

Did I mention that it had a bar with live music every night and owners got discounted drinks there, too? LOL.

And the management office handled sending out all your tax crap you needed for it for your taxes, too.

Dad really found a gem in that place. Hard to beat something that nice within walking distance of the ski lift, too.

It will take me 6 to 9 months to sell my house. Markets are so localized. :(

Try selling a high end house in Detroit bought at the peak. I know someone there who says it's unlikely he'll ever be able to do it without a massive loss. Wouldn't be uncommon for it to sit on the market for half a year. Obviously that's a VERY localized phenomenon but it happens.

Sorry it'll take ya so long, though. Our first condo took a while here, but not that long.
 
As others said it completely depends on where you are. Things are on the upswing.

I hate buying a house, though. This is the 3rd one I've bought (2nd one that my wife and I have bought together). The first time was exciting, but after that it's just been a drag. Look at a couple hundred houses online, eliminate 99% of them, the 1% you don't eliminate are crap, go back to the 99% and try to find another 1% to look at. Have your offer rejected, make an offer on another house, eventually buy something.

We're lucky that the property we live in now is perfect for us, but it took a lot of effort to get here in the purchase process, plus the decision that we were ok with doing some major changes to make the house what we wanted.
 
It all depends on when you sell. And most folks don't have a whole lot of control over that. But if you do... whooo boy. It's a pile of cash out of literally nothing.

Only helps, though, if you're willing to move somewhere else where your $$$ buys you more. Otherwise it just means you can buy a similar house.
 
I think I didn't say that right. The max they can increase the taxable value is 10 percent each year.

Unfortunately if your home values are going up many municipalities can do that. There were a lot of challenges to the valuations after 2008. Home prices went down, but amazingly the tax valuations didn't go down so much and not evenly across the county. :confused:

Lots of valuations ended up being lowered.

Our tax valuation has continually gone up, with a brief pause after 2008. Fortunately for us it doesn't match what the house would really sell for now. :D
 
I was told that for a conforming mortgage, the processors can't allow backstopping the loan with cash. The appraised price is what it is. You can ask the mortgage company to get a second appraisal if there is a formal error in the first one.

I have found the new Dodd Frank appraisals to be worthless. I had the same house appraised three times within a year and the results were 25% apart. The predictable result of good intentions gone bad. 'Uncoupling' the appraisers from the loan processors sounded like a good idea, the problem is that there is now no feedback for a shoddy appraiser. Worst thing that can happen is that they have to look for a new intermediary if too many of their appraisals get canned.
This.

And much more responsibility was put onto the appraisers (read: liability) so any error tends to produce lower value. The lower rates that they are now willing to pay for appraisers has lowered the quality. And appraisers are overworked. (all in addition to the traditional problem of using comps, which are a lagging indicator in the market).

All in all the regulation that was supposed to "protect" the public has in turn hurt home buyers that finance the purchase (i.e. most of them).

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real-estate/how-to-avoid-a-low-home-appraisal-1.aspx

http://www.homebuyinginstitute.com/news/appraisal-below-purchase-178/
 
I think I didn't say that right. The max they can increase the taxable value is 10 percent each year.

I understood...our max they can increase is 3% per year.

They put this law in to place about 10 or so years back. They had some shady stuff going on with values getting shot through the roof randomly, called it tax lightning, and had to put a stop to it.
 
How about hiring a management service to do the dirty work for you? Real estate makes a pretty good hedge investment.
Nope. Not worth the PITA to me. I know that some people love RE investments, but that would not be me.
 
House buying vs house selling: I've bought 2, sold 1. Selling was so much easier than buying.

In some ways, people put more research into buying a car than they do a house. You can figure out what part of town you like, what sort of house you like, and what your price range is. Then you start looking - one comes up, you look at it, you think about it, you want to take a second look and it's already sold. After a while, you learn that if you like it the instant you walk in the door, you better be prepared to put an offer on it right away.

As for renting after moving, I don't think it's for me. I know people that do it. Some are local landlords and handle maintenance and that sort of things on their own. They seem to be able to make money that way. I also know someone who has a professional manager handle a house out of state. I don't think they make much, if anything on it, but I think they way to hang onto it. It's been in their family a long time and I think they eventually want to move back into it.
 
There will be no housing bubble. Subprime underwriting at Fannie Mae drove up demand artificially.

But houses below $1m in price are considered middle to low end (adjusted for region). That market was always easy and hot. Now that short sales are all dried up and interest rates are still historically low you are seeing a normal housing market return.
 
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There will be no housing bubble. The Subprime crash was due to some in government handing houses to people with no income, down payment or credit. They drove up demand artificially (and broke the banks with Subprime underwriting guarantees at Fannie Mae). These people made no house payments then when their tickler rates and payments went back to normal they simply walked. They had no way to pay for the house and lost nothing just leaving. They already had bad credit.

But houses below $1m in price are considered middle to low end. That market was always easy and hot. Now that the short sales are all dried up and interest rates are still historically low you are seeing a normal housing market return.

Lol, maybe in NYC, SanFran, Seattle, or DC. No one in the central US is going to call a $500K home low-end, much less $1M.
 
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