Hot Weather Operations LAS VEGAS.

amoel

amoel

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amoel
Hello guys,

I will be traveling to Vegas this weekend on an SR22T Cirrus and I am a little bit concern about the hight temperatures at which I may need to take off (maybe 110 F) and I'm just reaching out for any advice here. The POH considers even 50C takeoffs so it is within limits, but I think I still need to have very present the fact that it is HOT.

Thanks,
 
amoel said:
Hello guys,

I will be traveling to Vegas this weekend on an SR22T Cirrus and I am a little bit concern about the hight temperatures at which I may need to take off (maybe 110 F) and I'm just reaching out for any advice here. The POH considers even 50C takeoffs so it is within limits, but I think I still need to have very present the fact that it is HOT.

Thanks,
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Are you concerned about density altitude / climb rate / runway length or engine temps?
 
Just check the performance data and you should be fine. If you see your CHTs rising, shallow out your climb.
 
Looks like density altitude will be a little under 6,000' so not that big of a deal from that perspective. I have no idea how the Cirrus does on engine cooling. Stay hydrated for sure, 110 in the cockpit will have you sweating on those fine leather seats.

If it were me I'd figure out a way to avoid departing in the heat of the day.
 
At least in the g2 Cirrus I occasionally fly the CHTs have a tendency to get hot and get hot fast.. and that's in the coastal San Diego area where it is nowhere near 110F.. so that would be my biggest concern are the CHTs

But like others have said, if it's within the POH parameters your biggest factor will shallowing the climb and keeping airflow over the engine
 
In the NA SR22 I teach in down in PHX we have done the hot days, but try not to make a habit out of it as it really pushes temperatures up, not quite to the factory limits but higher than my engineer brain likes. Tips: do not dilly dally on the ground, minimize that time or the oil temps will start to climb. Definitely cruise climb, 120-130 knots makes a big difference and still the back cylinders well rop will get up towards 420 and the oil temp up to 235-240 eek climbing out. Step climbs may be necessary where you level and accelerate to cool things off then climb again when things stabilize.
 
Beware that you could experience significant fuel expansion at those temps if you take on fuel there. Fuel expansion from 70F to 110F is a few percent, and you don't want to be pouring out fuel from your vents.

It will be brutally hot in the cockpit. I'd try to have a little cooler with a cool wet towel to cool off.
 
amoel said:
Engine Temps is my concern.
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Cruise climb as soon as you can (1,000' agl or so), mixture rich, low rpm, low boost. If you have to circle to climb over the hills then ya gotta circle. Keep yer weight down, only once through the buffet and just say no to the desserts.

I fly behind a TSIO-360 so have learned about preventing overheating. I've circled a few times, picked valley routes at other times. Minimizing weight also helps.
 
bijanmaleki said:
In the NA SR22 I teach in down in PHX we have done the hot days, but try not to make a habit out of it as it really pushes temperatures up, not quite to the factory limits but higher than my engineer brain likes. Tips: do not dilly dally on the ground, minimize that time or the oil temps will start to climb. Definitely cruise climb, 120-130 knots makes a big difference and still the back cylinders well rop will get up towards 420 and the oil temp up to 235-240 eek climbing out. Step climbs may be necessary where you level and accelerate to cool things off then climb again when things stabilize.
Click to expand...
What engine oil are you guys using? I've settled on semi-synthetic as best for cooler operation but don't know if that is unique to the TSIO-360.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Beware that you could experience significant fuel expansion at those temps if you take on fuel there. Fuel expansion from 70F to 110F is a few percent, and you don't want to be pouring out fuel from your vents.

It will be brutally hot in the cockpit. I'd try to have a little cooler with a cool wet towel to cool off.
Click to expand...

This, even if it has air conditioning
 
The flight school that has the Cirrus runs phillips xc year round. At the Gliderport I tow at we run W100 in the pawnee's and 182, and in the warrior and the decathalon I have in PHX to teach in we run W100. In Rapid City we have kept the airplanes on whatever they came with, our archer is running xc, the 172, 182RG, and 310R are running 15W-50 AS. As long as it is maintaining adequate oil pressure no need to go to a higher weight. Speaking with the tribologists(oil and bearings guys) at the turbine engine company I work for in my day job the most important consideration is keeping it clean.
 
bijanmaleki said:
The flight school that has the Cirrus runs phillips xc year round. At the Gliderport I tow at we run W100 in the pawnee's and 182, and in the warrior and the decathalon I have in PHX to teach in we run W100. In Rapid City we have kept the airplanes on whatever they came with, our archer is running xc, the 172, 182RG, and 310R are running 15W-50 AS. As long as it is maintaining adequate oil pressure no need to go to a higher weight. Speaking with the tribologists(oil and bearings guys) at the turbine engine company I work for in my day job the most important consideration is keeping it clean.
Click to expand...
Sorta difficult to find higher weight than the 15w-50 or w100 (SAE50). I know w120 is made but I've never seen it.

I tried Phillips XC and used it for break-in as recommended by the guys who rebuilt my cylinders. The oil temp runs about 10 degrees hotter than it does with AS 15w-50.

I agree that clean is good. Maintaining spec'd properties is equally important because if the oil thins to something like ice tea it won't really matter how clean it was. The multi-visc oils will do a little better maintaining viscosity with high temperatures since the polymer will keep building viscosity. Of course the good news is that all the piston aviation oils currently on the market work reasonably well up to about 235.
 
The viscosity index improvers are great but susceptible to shear, I haven't looked at what the blackstone reports show in shear would be interesting to look at. As long as the viscosity gives us the proper pressure seems to be relatively unimportant. All of our engines seem to make TBO (even the tow planes!) with maybe a cylinder here or there so in our limited data doesn't seem to matter all to much with the commercially available options today. My in laws always ran 15W-50 AS in their 135 op (310's, 414, 421, navajo cheiftains), and their friendly competitors halfway across the state ran xc in their navajos and senecas and they all got waivers to go over TBO from the FSDO based on wear trends.
 
try not to depart much after 830a. If you do - it'll be brutal - for you and the airplane.
 
NA. Back in 1958 my parents loaded my brother and I into a Plymouth station wagon and drove from CT to LA to Seattle and home again. Somewhere in NoCal or Oregon Dad was snoozing, Mom driving, and we two gearhead wannabes concerned about a new knocking sound from the engine.

Soon even Mom could hear it. We woke Dad and then pulled into the local service station. They directed us down the street to Al's Garage. Al hisself came out to listen. Dad starred it up and Al immediately said "shut it down, shut it down!"

Then he said "bearings". Al and staff pushed the car onto the lift and drained the oil - when it came out it was the viscosity of water. Complete oil failure!

This was not long after multiviscosity oil was released to the public. Clearly we had been beta testers for a not-quite-ready-for prime time batch.

We did get a bit lucky, though. Al had already worked in a Chrysler Corp engine plant for 20 years and retired to his home town in Oregon. When he got through with the complete lower end overhaul, that engine purred for the duration. And while we were stuck in Oregon, Al gave us a pickup truck for a loaner!

-Skip
 
A guy I worked for would only let us use SAE 30 year around in all the engines he was responsible for. He had the "no multivisc" bug really bad. It did make stocking oil very simple.
 
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