hindsight2020
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hindsight2020
Housing prices above stupid levels but y'all can't afford transportation infrastructure? WTF
Hopefully moving to Colorado!
- Thread starter SPAJC
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Housing prices above stupid levels but y'all can't afford transportation infrastructure? WTF
SkyHog
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Everything Offends Me
That's what I'm talking about!
And its not schools, because it started getting worse during the summer. The construction is getting lighter, but the traffic is getting worse.
Northbound, the traffic starts right about County Line Rd until Arapahoe. Southbouth, it starts somewhere north of Arapahoe (that's where I get on) and continues until I get to exit 181 in Castle Rock, where I either stay on I25 or take the frontage road, traffic depending.
seems that most new roads are being privately built as tolls. on 36 they widened it, and the new lanes are toll/hov lanes. It's weird.
If they finish the belt way I'll happily pay REASONABLE tolls to use 470.
I think it's the explosive growth of castle rock. When I moved there in 02ish when you came down the hill after castle pines you couldn't see any houses to the west of 25, just open fields. Now, all houses.
Taxes can't be raised without a vote. They're talking about increase license fees but that might be a tax too. Bridges are getting bad. As for major highways as another comment said, we seem to be going private/tolls.
House prices have nothing to do with this. Other than pushing folks to Wyoming and commuting back in their cowboy Cadillacs.
Taxes can't be raised without a vote. They're talking about increase license fees but that might be a tax too. Bridges are getting bad. As for major highways as another comment said, we seem to be going private/tolls.
House prices have nothing to do with this. Other than pushing folks to Wyoming and commuting back in their cowboy Cadillacs.
Registration higher? Are they on crack? It's already like 900 bucks for a new car.
tjfelles
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We just moved from Castle Rock to Idaho for all the reasons listed before. Beautiful...but one must live with the troubles of progress to be there. Enjoy!
That's the ownership tax. I think they are talking license fee itself or 'road use fee'. Can't call it a tax.
Unfortunately co has one thing I need, jobs.
denverpilot
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Others have mentioned the tax situation but ...
CDOT decided they'd sell toll lanes to the toll company that runs E470 in return for maintenance of other lanes.
What they didn't count on was they didn't really bother asking the taxpayers if that's what anyone wanted.
Then they had to scramble, long after the equipment had been ordered to create the toll lanes (our local press is too scared to ask for that data, they don't want to "lose access" - I have friends in low places at E470), to make up a bunch of "public comment" meetings real quick and act like they were interested in such.
The gear was already headed here by the time they held those. Construction started about one day after the public was assured that their concerns had been heard.
Also never saw the money requested on a ballot, either. It's kinda hard to vote yes for something no one asked for evaluate they already had their toll plan.
New meetings are currently and quietly ongoing for toll lanes on I-70 west of town, and C-470. Right now. Note lack of serious press coverage again. Someone at the CDOT Press department plays hardball. Spin and play nice, the plans are already done and have been for some time. The toll company had to be on board and the negotiations with them about how many lanes and where, were completed about two years ago.
Oh the beltway... Golden and Boulder have blocked the W-470 connection of the full loop since the day construction started on C-470. It'll never ever happen. The plans called for blasting a tunnel into North and South Table Mountain, and Golden has used FUD about that and the environment to block the road for decades now.
The biggest reason Denver is screwed, is that city planners were extremely short-sighted and thought a single big north-south interchange of two interstates was "enough" road to keep traffic flowing across a city of 5-6 million.
Not a chance in hell.
But by the time anyone noticed it was going to be a problem, the suburbs filled in and no open land to run any more north-south or east-west arteries.
Frankly, the smartest thing for east-west would be to put "the longest contiguous boulevard in the country", Colfax Ave to use as a split level elevated freeway and connect it to the 6th Avenue freeway.
For north-south it'd have to be Kipling on the west side, and the east side has I-270 and I-225. 270 would need widening. 225 is better after this summer's work and they raised the peer limit to 65.
They'd have to tick off a lot of people to do that so they widened I-25 with TREX instead.
They've also added light rail lines and capacity and the tracks to DIA are pretty close to done. We see test trains on them pretty regularly now.
We already have multiple and one called that exact name, I think. In some ways it's the same model as aviation "user fees" for roads. The lame part is its tied to a vehicle, and if you have more vehicles than you can drive at once, you're screwed. They're not on the roads every day, but you'll pay more than your fair share to own them. Dumb.
There's also a Bridge Fee and some others. The always entertaining part is that they levied those fees, and 2 million more people moved here, and they never got around to actually fixing any bridges with those fees.
I-70 from Airport Road toward the East is currently undergoing similar changes as I-25 did with TREX. Then they move toward downtown next; and the next big fiasco is they want to tear down the decrepit elevated portion of I-70 and replace it with an underground version. That'll work well here with our snow removal. Shades of The Big Dig probably coming, too.
They need to get rid of tolls. Toll roads are an indication of a totalitarian society. Democracies have non toll roads, paid for by fuel taxes (and other taxes). But the politicians are owned by those opposed to fuel taxes (and any other taxes). I don't like taxes, but Id rather have fuel tax than those damn tolls. There is no way to pay at a toll booth. They are history. If you don't subscribe to a transponder, they bill you based on you car registration. And frequently they don't send you the first bill, so it can ballon to 10 times on the second bill. I love this country and am law abiding, but I swear, they cant do that!!!
I hope the sarcasm came across in 'not call it a tax'.
denverpilot
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Hana. Colorado's government has been attempting to emulate their heroes who make more money and have nicer dinner parties in Big Cities back east as long as I can remember.
Expect more of this, not less. They like the lifestyle it affords them.
Current Governor is all about the politics of celebrity and fame. He's also worn out at least ten sets of knee pads. He wouldn't know an original idea if one bit him on the ass.
All of the tolls here are license plate based. You used to get a transponder but they've mostly dumped them for an RFID tags as window stickers, and it's just a backup to the cameras.
If the cameras read the plate, it looks to see if you're a non-toll-pass user or one with a pass, and bills accordingly. If non, mailed statement to the address of the vehicle registration. If pass user, sucks it directly off your stored credit card. Commercial vehicles usually have passes and bill to the company.
The booths are still there on the older stretches of road. It was cash early on. Closed those down a long time ago. Now you just keep truckin' at 75.
Oh and don't forget to register trailers. Every axle costs more.
I actually missed it. But I think those talking about moving here, probably get the idea.
We passed a very smart law known as TABOR (Taxpayer Bill of Rights, named for the famous Silver baron, somewhat ironically, but most folks here think it's just a guy's name on a downtown mall) that forced our government here to do this thing called "work" ... and they hate it.
They can't raise taxes without putting it on the ballot. Which means they have to take a side in public.
Truly an amazing law. That was the idea anyway.
Unfortunately the authors didn't take the natural next step, and realize if the politicians could call it anything but a "tax", they can pass it without voter approval.
Everything became a "fee" over the next couple of years and they kept spending. Anywhere they could find a fee that could replace traditional taxes, they got it done. Just took a couple of years to figure it out and revamp the computer systems to track them.
Of course the proof it didn't really work is in a graph of State spending. Hasn't been a year it went down since the passage. Not even under any of the fake conservatives. Not even per capita, which would be the fair measurement.
Nope. Colorado politicians spend more every year. Doesn't really matter what they say in speeches.
I'm actually "ok" with the fee thing in concept. Where it falls apart is in the details, like multiple owned vehicles by an individual. I'm not "using" the roads any more than the person with one vehicle. Of course they can't tell if I am, since I could be loaning them out or have kids, but I don't. They're parked most days.
Interestingly I'm not even against tolling per se. Just don't allow any games with the price for commercial vs private, and adjust the price by vehicle weight only, after damage to the road is known by the maintenance numbers.
And don't allow making a PROFIT off of roads. Especially considering the land necessary to build and expand some of those roads (and definitely light rail) was acquired via threat of eminent domain.
Totally evil and without moral backing in a land based on private property rights.
I'm still trying to figure out which politician's buddies are pocketing that cash. Because no proper Statist would ever allow a big bad corporation to make a profit on a public road. Right? LOL. Right. Only if it's owned by their buddies, anyway.
(Federico Pena now manages his family fortune for a living. Most of it amassed selling land to the city to build the airport on. It's pretty standard for Colorado politics.)
But we all know where the toll thing is really headed anyway over time: Mileage tracking for user fees. Even on the so-called "public" roads.
You're going to pay for driving that "evil" car.
Meanwhile they're having those nice "public meeting / town halls" as we type this for "feedback on toll lane pricing".
Somehow, they don't seem to take my answer of $0 too seriously? ;-)
One of the dirty little secrets of the toll lanes is that they're mostly there to keep the (always horribly managed and hideously expensive for what it does) bus system on time.
RTD has been known as "Reason To Drive" ever since I was a kid. The busses use the toll lanes for free, of course. (Technically so do carpoolers in some of them.)
Their focus on light rail later in my life certainly is smarter than the God-awful busses. And Uber and such finally helped them bust the cabbie union down to the point where they could put in the train that should have gone in first... to the airport.
ALL... Of the above is completely a Denver Metro set of problems. Get away from the cow-town and roads are generally boring affairs taken care of by the counties. Most of the counties are broke and think grants from the State are manna from heaven that nobody pays for, just ask my county commissioners.
They said so. $2.3M to pave four miles of dirt road that no one needed paved out here, but they got the State to go halfsies with them so it's all okay. Haha. Took the contractor 9 months. Not kidding. 9 months. Four miles.
bluerooster
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shorty
Or mabe workin' fer Untied Hairlines? And moved up to the DEN-CHI-LON run?
denverpilot
Tied Down
Saw a guy with four dork bars driving up the toll road from Aurora to DIA a couple weeks ago.
I was slightly jealous he'd hung on to an 80s Toyota 2WD pickup truck as a commuter car. They're great for that. Run forever. Decent mileage. Can carry some light crap when needed.
denverpilot
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We are hiring both for a software QA and a DevOps position, in case anyone is interested in such things. I'll happily tell the good and the bad -- from my perspective -- via PM or telephone, if someone is that bored. 
Anthony
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Anthony
Have you seen how many houses they built around Castle Rock, and Parker?
Anthony
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Anthony
Current Governor IS FROM A BIG CITY BACK EAST.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
That's because lots of people have moved here. Think of what the housing prices would be like if building was restricted.
Housing prices are driven by supply and demand. The regions in the country with high housing prices are seen as desirable for one reason or another. Even though certain individuals might not find a particular location desirable, many others do.
Anthony
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Anthony
I know that. I happen to be in a specialized facet of the real estate industry, so know the concepts.
My point was due to the demand, and thus building in that area, more people, means more traffic.
When you push the throttle in, you burn more fuel.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
True! Plus the more people complain about high cost and too many people, there will be fewer who want to move in... maybe not.I know that. I happen to be in a specialized facet of the real estate industry, so know the concepts.
My point was due to the demand, and thus building in that area, more people, means more traffic.
When you push the throttle in, you burn more fuel.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Constant construction on I-25 around Lincoln/Ridgegate and even further south doesn't help, but...
More people live down south to (partially) avoid the stupidity of Denver. Douglas and Arapahoe Counties are business- and family-friendly 'burbs. You get more house for the money, better schools, lots of open space, etc. but the tradeoff is the commute. As of today, I wouldn't want to live any farther south than Highlands Ranch or possibly Castle Pines (Pines is getting hammered by the construction at Lincoln and Ridgegate). But even Highlands Ranch is starting to sprawl. It can take 15 minutes to get to a highway from some parts of the Ranch now. Then you have 30-40 more minutes from there to downtown. Eff that if I work downtown. If you work in the Tech Center then I wouldn't have a problem living in Castle Rock or even Larkspur and further.
Perhaps the I-25 mods will help eventually but it seems like they're always too late to widen roads. But hey! we have that super expensive light rail system that... actually takes just as long...If you're going downtown. You ARE going downtown, right? Like where else could people possibly want to go? /sarcasm.
ASIDE: I worked with a guy who rode his bike from Ken Caryl to downtown every day, rain, snow or shine. 26 miles one way. He would get downtown and shower at the Colorado Athletic Club and then come into the office. It took him an hour nearly every time - not much longer, if any, than the car trip. Crazy but huge respect for that guy.
I also worked with a guy who commuted to downtown Denver from the northern part of Colorado Springs. That guy was miserable AF.
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overdrive148
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overdrive148
How's Rocky Mountain Airport and the Broomfield area?
Anthony
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overdrive148
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Constant construction on I-25 around Lincoln/Ridgegate and even further south doesn't help, but...
Perhaps the I-25 mods will help eventually but it seems like they're always too late to widen roads. But hey! we have that super expensive light rail system that... actually takes just as long...If you're going downtown. You ARE going downtown, right? Like where else could people possibly want to go? /sarcasm.
I take light rail twice a week from (sorry) south Aurora to downtown (teach at one of the universities). As for travel time, depends entirely on the time of day. This semester, it's cheaper and faster to ride the train. $4 round trip, and I don't pay the extortion ($6/day) to park on campus. When I moved to Colorado, it was for a job downtown so I picked a location close to express bus route.
Truthfully, I don't mind living in Aurora, even tho it's slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun. Nice neighbors, the city promptly plows when the snow storms hit.
I can get to the hangar (FTG) in 30-35 minutes, even tho Centennial (APA) much closer (30 miles to FTG vs 5 miles straight line to APA but 15 miles on the streets which can be 15 minutes or 2 hours depending on traffic).
On the other hand, not great for quality restaurants or shopping (I head south or into Denver for both) hence my cooking skills have improved immensely. There are 2-3 local non-chain restaurants I like, tho.
My biggest complaint about Colorado in general - no one understands that a Kaiser roll is crisp on the outside and soft on the inside. Not even in LA, do they have decent kaisers. No decent pumpernickels, either.
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you got 10 years to wait for a hangar?
Anthony
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Anthony
That's why I drove the 40 minutes from Lone Tree to KFTG.
overdrive148
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Everskyward
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Everskyward
Airport has a nice view of the mountains. And it can be very windy. Generally speaking, the area south and east of the airport is less expensive than north and west.Don't own a plane. How nice is the airprot and the area?