Hooker harness?

Diana

Diana

Final Approach
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Diana
Anybody have an idea of what would be involved with installing a Hooker Harness set up in the Citabria? Could I do it myself or would a mechanic have to do it and sign it off?

Thanks.
 
Ah, for those of us relatively new to aviation....I'm assuming Hooker Harness isn't...ah...what it SOUNDS like, right? :eek:
 
Brian Austin said:
Ah, for those of us relatively new to aviation....I'm assuming Hooker Harness isn't...ah...what it SOUNDS like, right? :eek:
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I sure hope not ... hey, does Hooker makes Headers for Hawks? I had Hooker Headers on a '77 Ranchero with a 400ci Windsor... loved the "I love my Hookers" sticker...
 
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Brian Austin said:
Ah, for those of us relatively new to aviation....I'm assuming Hooker Harness isn't...ah...what it SOUNDS like, right? :eek:
Click to expand...

LOL! Oh, Brian ;)

It's a fancy kind of seatbelt designed to hold you in better when doing aerobatics.

I'll find the link and post it shortly.
 
Brian Austin said:
Ah, for those of us relatively new to aviation....I'm assuming Hooker Harness isn't...ah...what it SOUNDS like, right? :eek:
Click to expand...
Yes, Brian, it's a ... oh gosh, nevermind! :rolleyes:

Diana, to answer your question, it depends on what you have now and possibly which Hooker you put in. Do you have a 5-point in now? If so, and you swap it for the standard Hooker that American Champion uses, you can do it with a logbook entry. However, if you don't have a 5-point now, you will need to get an A&P to put in the anchor points. If you just have a lap belt, check over on the Citabria board because I think I recall there being some mounting issues with the ceiling point for the front seat. I have never looked at the mount points on the serious ratcheting Hookers, but I believe they're the same as the standard Hooker 5-point. I find the standard Hookers adequate for "gentleman's acro."

The bottom line is that changing seat belt webbing is within the purview of owner/pilot work, installing anchor points is not.
 
To answer your question, the harness set comes with the STC and the STC is applied to the aircraft by Major modification process done on a 337.

the form is easy to fill out and the engineering is already done and any A&P-IA can sign it off and return to service in a airworthy status.

It is easier to do, than explain it.

Any one can do the actual work, but the A&P-IA is all that is needed to return to service.

I do it all the time with my Super Cub owners that work up north.

I perfere the BAS harness myself.

Tom D. A&P-IA
 
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NC19143 said:
To answer your question, the harness set comes with the STC and the STC is applied to the aircraft by Major modification process done on a 337.
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Tom,

I may be wrong on this, but I don't believe a 337 is required because the Hooker is on the type certificate.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Yes, Brian, it's a ... oh gosh, nevermind! :rolleyes:

Diana, to answer your question, it depends on what you have now and possibly which Hooker you put in. Do you have a 5-point in now?

The bottom line is that changing seat belt webbing is within the purview of owner/pilot work, installing anchor points is not.
Click to expand...

All I have now is the basic lap belt and then a simple non-adjustable shoulder belt. Seems like no matter how tight I have the seat belt, I feel like I'm sliding around a lot when doing aerobatics, especially when I'm trying to use the rudder pedals inverted.

Thanks Ken, I'll run over to the Citabria forum and do a search over there.
 
Diana said:
All I have now is the basic lap belt and then a simple non-adjustable shoulder belt.
Click to expand...

Does the shoulder belt mount to a cross piece in the middle of the ceiling on on the side? If the side, then you'll need to move it. If in the middle it might work.

You can get the 2" commercial Hooker as a 4-point only, but as long as you're going to the trouble, you should make it a 5 point.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Does the shoulder belt mount to a cross piece in the middle of the ceiling on on the side? If the side, then you'll need to move it. If in the middle it might work.

You can get the 2" commercial Hooker as a 4-point only, but as long as you're going to the trouble, you should make it a 5 point.
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It's on the side. So, we'd have to tear into stuff to move it?
 
Diana said:
It's on the side. So, we'd have to tear into stuff to move it?
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You're looking at taking out the headliner and putting a mount on one of the cross pieces. The part I can't remember is that attaching it to said member may (or may not) be difficult/impossible without dinging the fabric covering, too. I might be confusing two different threads. It's been a very long day. I think in the morning I'll have to put my Hooker to use and clear some cobwebs.
 
Mark S said:
http://www.basinc-aeromod.com/

I think these are for more mundane aircraft than yours. BAS may offer a harness that I am unaware of in additon to their regular line of seat belts/shoulder harnesses.

Mark
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Thanks Mark. Wow, did you see the pictures in the testimonials?
 
Ken Ibold said:
I think in the morning I'll have to put my Hooker to use and clear some cobwebs.
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Ken, if that means you're going flying in the morning......have fun! Do a roll for me. :)
 
Ken Ibold said:
Tom,

I may be wrong on this, but I don't believe a 337 is required because the Hooker is on the type certificate.
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It may be,,, , but which model belt is standard equipment?
Which does she have? Is it legal Now?

With out inspecting the aircraft, and researching the type certificate, I can't tell. Many aircraft I see are not in compliance with their type certificates because the Alaskan fish spotters like to put some pretty awful stuff in their aircraft claiming it is better that what they had. (Belts are most common)

With that said:

If you change to a belt that is not standard for the model aircraft, it becomes a modification.

Standard = any thing the FAA did not watch the manufacturer test and place on the type certificate.

If you upgrade to a better ____, such as the BAS shoulder harness they come with the STC and are very easy to apply on a 337. The FAA can not refuse to sign because by my authority as an IA I say it is good to go. and the only thing I am required to do is to see that it was installed IAW the STC instructions, all the FAA does is look at the 337 for proper entries, and files it in the aircraft history records in OKC.

BUT

If the type certificate has several models of belts as alternate equipement, it is an easy do,,, just make a log book entry stating that type certificate equipment number XXX was removed and type certificate equipment number YYY was installed and have an A&P sign as "under the supervision of" and any one can do the work.

Tom D. A&P-IA
 
Ken Ibold said:
Hmmm, all high-wingers, too.
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LOL!!!! Don't get me started again! I almost lost a ride in the Extra last time.
;)
 
Diana said:
Ken, if that means you're going flying in the morning......have fun! Do a roll for me. :)
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Only one? I'll do some spins for you too. Any thing else? Immelman, maybe? half Cuban 8? Cloverleaf?

I'm thinking I'll start trying to learn this year's Sportsman sequence. The consensus is that it's the best one in years.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Only one? I'll do some spins for you too. Any thing else? Immelman, maybe? half Cuban 8? Cloverleaf?

I'm thinking I'll start trying to learn this year's Sportsman sequence. The consensus is that it's the best one in years.
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Ken, do them all! And report back! I am SO envious!

That would be neat if you could do the Sportsman! Will the 7GCAA be able to do everything? Would you have to stay inverted for long?
 
NC19143 said:
It may be,,, , but which model belt is standard equipment?
Which does she have? Is it legal Now?

If you change to a belt that is not standard for the model aircraft, it becomes a modification.

Standard = any thing the FAA did not watch the manufacturer test and place on the type certificate.

Tom D. A&P-IA
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Thanks Tom. I'll dig out the TCDS (I assume that's where I look?)
 
Diana said:
Ken, do them all! And report back! I am SO envious!

That would be neat if you could do the Sportsman! Will the 7GCAA be able to do everything? Would you have to stay inverted for long?
Click to expand...
The GCAA can do it. There's not much inverted other than half cuban 8 and such. Whether I can, though, remains to be seen. Mind you I'm not planning to compete, but I hear the energy management and maneuver flow just works out perfectly this year, so I'm going to see what happens. And I'm certainly not worried about staying in the box or impressing judges.
 
Ken Ibold said:
The GCAA can do it. There's not much inverted other than half cuban 8 and such. Whether I can, though, remains to be seen. Mind you I'm not planning to compete, but I hear the energy management and maneuver flow just works out perfectly this year, so I'm going to see what happens. And I'm certainly not worried about staying in the box or impressing judges.
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If you make it to Gaston's, will you take me flying and do the sequence with me? I'd love to see how it feels in the GCAA. I'll bring the parachutes. :)
 
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just curious, where do I find this citabria forum? If it is the same thing as the citarbia group on yahoo I'm alreday a member but if there is a seperate citabria forum on this I'd like to check it out. Thanks.
 
gonvrtd said:
just curious, where do I find this citabria forum? If it is the same thing as the citarbia group on yahoo I'm alreday a member but if there is a seperate citabria forum on this I'd like to check it out. Thanks.
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Yes, it's the YahooCitabria forum that we're referring to. There is another Citabria forum associated with the Bellanca-Citabria club:

http://bellanca-championclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2
 
Ken Ibold said:
Hmmm, all high-wingers, too.
Click to expand...

I put BAS inertia reel shoulder belts in the Baron last year. AFaIK they don't make any aerobatic harnesses. The best ones have a ratchet mechanism for tightening the belt and that allows you to get them much tighter.
 
Steve said:
Diana,

If you'll come down to SnF I'll introduce you to Mr. Hooker. A lot of the WB's use their equipment and the Hooker van is often parked after the airshow as a mobile "watering" hole for the demo pilots.

S
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Hey Steve, thanks! It would be great to meet him. I wish I was going to SnF this year. Wonder if he will be at OSH? I was going to shop for one when there, and then put in a new one with the recover job this fall. You going to be at OSH this year?
 
Diana,

Hooker Upgrade!

You'll be happy to learn that I have ordered replacement Hooker lap belts for the back seat. The new belts have two ratchets, one on each side, and the ratchets will be on the upper lap belt instead of the lower one. This new setup is supposed to be much more comfortable.

The existing single ratchet will go in the front seat - no more complaints about not being able to get the belt tight enough! :)

Chip
 
gibbons said:
Diana,

Hooker Upgrade!

You'll be happy to learn that I have ordered replacement Hooker lap belts for the back seat. The new belts have two ratchets, one on each side, and the ratchets will be on the upper lap belt instead of the lower one. This new setup is supposed to be much more comfortable.

The existing single ratchet will go in the front seat - no more complaints about not being able to get the belt tight enough! :)

Chip
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Yeah!! No more whining from the little lady in the front seat when she hears ratchet noises coming from the back!
;)
 
Steve said:
Yes, I plan to be at OSH. Hooker is there, too. Same van, same operation. Your mission is to find me.

S
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Mission accepted!
 
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gibbons said:
Diana,

Hooker Upgrade!

You'll be happy to learn that I have ordered replacement Hooker lap belts for the back seat. The new belts have two ratchets, one on each side, and the ratchets will be on the upper lap belt instead of the lower one. This new setup is supposed to be much more comfortable.

The existing single ratchet will go in the front seat - no more complaints about not being able to get the belt tight enough! :)

Chip
Click to expand...

Too bad they don't make a belt system with a bobweight tensioner that would automatically make the belts tighter when the g's go negative.
 
lancefisher said:
Too bad they don't make a belt system with a bobweight tensioner that would automatically make the belts tighter when the g's go negative.
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There you go Lance.... your next $ million! You're right, the only really uncomfortable part of the flight is heading back home after ratcheting down. I can't take the pressure off until I'm on the ground and stopped. Sign me up for a "Fisher Harness" system.

Chip
 
Diana said:
It's on the side. So, we'd have to tear into stuff to move it?
Click to expand...

Yep, not sure you're 'allowed' to do that, but regardless of what it takes to get done, you want a good 5 (preferably 6) point harness. I readily attribute my life to them on more than one occassion and not only in planes.
:blowkiss: There's your Hooker BTW
 
gibbons said:
What is a 6 point harness? Where's the 6th point?

Chip
Click to expand...

The crotch strap is an inverted V. MUCH more comfortable in high G decelleration.
 
Chuck or Brian, would you mind moving this thread over to the aerobatic forum?

Thanks. :)
 
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